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Just asking all the Space Wolves fans a question -

So per the Fluff, the Rune Priests tend to rationalize their psyker powers of being "not part of the Warp" by making reference to the Animalistic Spirits of Fenris..... Not so much as said spirits showing up, but rather as the "source" of their powers.

So 3 questions:

1.) So... Freki the Fierce and Geri the Cunning a la "Fury of the Wolf Spirits" are actually..... Daemons right? Daemons in the sense of anything that's hanging around the Warp is a Daemon (Kaldor Draigo not withstanding although he might as well be )

2.) Have any "Wolf spirits" ever made an appearance in any of the Fluff or BL fiction?


3.) Is this also the position taken by the 13th Company's Rune Priests...since well, they actually had to crawl around the Warp/Eye of Terror with their Wulfen brethren for so long?

1) Might just be an illusion and all the power is kinetic.
2) Maybe. One is implied in Stormcaller.
3) Probably. The beliefs are important to Space Wolves although as I recall Stormcaller did hint at the Rune Priests knowing it wasn't 100% accurate one way or the other.

pm713 wrote:
1) Might just be an illusion and all the power is kinetic.
2) Maybe. One is implied in Stormcaller.
3) Probably. The beliefs are important to Space Wolves although as I recall Stormcaller did hint at the Rune Priests knowing it wasn't 100% accurate one way or the other.

Thanks for the response!

Care to elaborate on that bit regarding Point 3?

GrapeApe wrote:

pm713 wrote:
1) Might just be an illusion and all the power is kinetic.
2) Maybe. One is implied in Stormcaller.
3) Probably. The beliefs are important to Space Wolves although as I recall Stormcaller did hint at the Rune Priests knowing it wasn't 100% accurate one way or the other.

Thanks for the response!

Care to elaborate on that bit regarding Point 3?

I might be misremembering but in Stormcaller a Nurgle Sorceror goes on a rant about how Space Wolves and Njal are lying to themselves about using the Warp but Njal just dismisses the whole thing.

pm713 wrote:

GrapeApe wrote:

pm713 wrote:
1) Might just be an illusion and all the power is kinetic.
2) Maybe. One is implied in Stormcaller.
3) Probably. The beliefs are important to Space Wolves although as I recall Stormcaller did hint at the Rune Priests knowing it wasn't 100% accurate one way or the other.

Thanks for the response!

Care to elaborate on that bit regarding Point 3?

I might be misremembering but in Stormcaller a Nurgle Sorceror goes on a rant about how Space Wolves and Njal are lying to themselves about using the Warp but Njal just dismisses the whole thing.

which is pretty normal. Rune Preists are horriably in denial.

The entire Chapter is in denial. Either their Rune Priests are self-deluded psykers (and thus were in violation of the Edict of Nikea) or they are sorcerers, which makes them wielders of the power of the Warp... and heretics, to boot.

Space Wolves are definitely using the same source of psychic powers as absolutely every other psychic using being in the 40k universe.

They are either lying about it, or mistaken.

My personal head cannon says otherwise, not that that matters to most, but its all based from all the other things that SW bring to the psychic table. They are the only ones with armor that gives protection from warp energies, small talismans and clumps of fur that give a tangible resistance to warp powers. Even how their runic staves worked its was more like an independent anti psycher item instead of something that worked to magnify the psychers own ability like a psychic hood does.

So maybe rune priests do channel their power through the warp, but there clearly are other powers in effect for rune priests that other Librarians and Sorcerers dont have access to. Maybe, just maybe those other benefits come from Fenris itself.

 Jayden63 wrote:

So maybe rune priests do channel their power through the warp, but there clearly are other powers in effect for rune priests that other Librarians and Sorcerers dont have access to. Maybe, just maybe those other benefits come from Fenris itself.

That's always the difficulty isn't it - because ultimately we don't know the full extant of what is or isn't possible with the Warp.

For all we know it could be something similar in the manner that the Sisters of Battle are able to pull off Miracles...or Saints for that matter.

Or it could be just their own ideas of their powers somehow shaping the Warp's response to it.....?

Which is why I asked my initial set of questions - ie: Beyond the Hand-waving that occurs according to the Rune Priests, have we ever seen any evidence for or against their explanation?

Thus far, at least from the responses on this thread, there doesn't seem to be much. I guess its just a subject that never gets touched on.

 Jayden63 wrote:
My personal head cannon says otherwise, not that that matters to most, but its all based from all the other things that SW bring to the psychic table. They are the only ones with armor that gives protection from warp energies, small talismans and clumps of fur that give a tangible resistance to warp powers. Even how their runic staves worked its was more like an independent anti psycher item instead of something that worked to magnify the psychers own ability like a psychic hood does.

So maybe rune priests do channel their power through the warp, but there clearly are other powers in effect for rune priests that other Librarians and Sorcerers dont have access to. Maybe, just maybe those other benefits come from Fenris itself.

except they're NOT the only ones with armor that gives protection from warp energies, the exact rules in 40k differ from edition to edition but the fluff has always been very clear that the armor Grey Knights wear is warded against the warp.

in addition there are NUMEROUS examples of talismens and fetishes protecting people from the power of the warp. so it's not something "special about fenris".

Freki the Fierce = Gork and Geri the Cunning = Mork. Makes sense given all the digganobz they seem to have in their ranks nowadays

But seriously its probably that Fenris has some sort of warp anomaly going on that the Rune Priest draw from for their power. Considering the obsession the Space Wolves have with wolves it wouldn't surprise me if all that collective thought and emotion is manifesting as these so called wolf spirits. Curiously I wonder what the Grey Knights make of Fenris considering they have some degree of expertise when it comes to the warp.

 Vankraken wrote:
Freki the Fierce = Gork and Geri the Cunning = Mork. Makes sense given all the digganobz they seem to have in their ranks nowadays

But seriously its probably that Fenris has some sort of warp anomaly going on that the Rune Priest draw from for their power. Considering the obsession the Space Wolves have with wolves it wouldn't surprise me if all that collective thought and emotion is manifesting as these so called wolf spirits. Curiously I wonder what the Grey Knights make of Fenris considering they have some degree of expertise when it comes to the warp.

I imagine the Grey Knights realize, like every other psyker that Rune Preists are just Psykers

 Psienesis wrote:
The entire Chapter is in denial. Either their Rune Priests are self-deluded psykers (and thus were in violation of the Edict of Nikea) or they are sorcerers, which makes them wielders of the power of the Warp... and heretics, to boot.

Because nobody violates the Edict of Nikea.

My guess is that the original Rune Priests made up this story as a convenient way to circumvent the Edict of Nikea. But then their descendants actually started to believe in it...
It is that or the collective Wolfity Wolf obsession of Fenris is creating a new Warp God...

They use the warp, and while they may use fenris specific disciplines, they can access other things. Also anything they access from that school could be attributed to another school. So its the same source just a different teaching.

Also the wolves believe in these spirits and tribal cultures because that is the culture in which Russ was raised. Also to admit that they use the warp would make them no better than the Sons of Magnus, and nothing pisses a wolf off more than calling them a thousand son, so I cant help bu think that this specific rivalry has a lot to do with it. and the rivalry would explain their tradition of warp warded armor.

As a fictional universe, the 40k universe is a parallel to ours, so it doesn't follow all the same rules of ours. It seems that runic drawings and faith have a tangible effect in that universe. It is why SOB are as uncorruptable as the are and its why Purity seals and stuff work. It could just be the belief that is put behind it, but there are lots of examples of mundane things being effective against the warp if they have been specially inscribed, blessed and are used by a true believer who's faith is strong enough

*Cough* Slight correction.

The Space Wolves believe that their powers come from the animistic spirit of Fenris.

They believe that Fenris itself is a spiritual entity that grants them their powers.

pm713 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The entire Chapter is in denial. Either their Rune Priests are self-deluded psykers (and thus were in violation of the Edict of Nikea) or they are sorcerers, which makes them wielders of the power of the Warp... and heretics, to boot.

Because nobody violates the Edict of Nikea.

The only other Legion to violate the Edict was the Thousand Sons. We all know how that ended.

 Psienesis wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The entire Chapter is in denial. Either their Rune Priests are self-deluded psykers (and thus were in violation of the Edict of Nikea) or they are sorcerers, which makes them wielders of the power of the Warp... and heretics, to boot.

Because nobody violates the Edict of Nikea.

The only other Legion to violate the Edict was the Thousand Sons. We all know how that ended.

And almost every single modern Chapter.

the space wolves and 1k sons wheren't the only one, some chapters never really got around to making the changes before the excrement hit the fan. white scars for example.

pm713 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The entire Chapter is in denial. Either their Rune Priests are self-deluded psykers (and thus were in violation of the Edict of Nikea) or they are sorcerers, which makes them wielders of the power of the Warp... and heretics, to boot.

Because nobody violates the Edict of Nikea.

The only other Legion to violate the Edict was the Thousand Sons. We all know how that ended.

And almost every single modern Chapter.

The edict was essentially repealed after the HH with the Codex Astartes which outlined rules for a Labriarium. So technically the only LEGIONS to violate it, that I know for sure were the Thousand sons. I don't know enough about heresy White Scars or Wolves, but I would imagine that the traditions of stormseer and rune priest, being non codex compliant, were not just invented at the onset of the Codex Era.

 GKTiberius wrote:

The edict was essentially repealed after the HH with the Codex Astartes which outlined rules for a Labriarium. So technically the only LEGIONS to violate it, that I know for sure were the Thousand sons. I don't know enough about heresy White Scars or Wolves, but I would imagine that the traditions of stormseer and rune priest, being non codex compliant, were not just invented at the onset of the Codex Era.

The BA librarians still operated openly in their HH novel Fear to Tread.
At least one RG librarian starts using his powers again in their HH novel Deliverance Lost.
The WE librarians repeatedly save Angron in their HH novel Betrayer.
The WS Stormseers openly used their powers throughout their HH novel Scars.
SW are being discussed in this thread.

Im pretty sure the only legion to follow Nikea completely were the Fists, who went too far IMHO and locked their librarians up away from everyone else.

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:

The edict was essentially repealed after the HH with the Codex Astartes which outlined rules for a Labriarium. So technically the only LEGIONS to violate it, that I know for sure were the Thousand sons. I don't know enough about heresy White Scars or Wolves, but I would imagine that the traditions of stormseer and rune priest, being non codex compliant, were not just invented at the onset of the Codex Era.

The BA librarians still operated openly in their HH novel Fear to Tread.
At least one RG librarian starts using his powers again in their HH novel Deliverance Lost.
The WE librarians repeatedly save Angron in their HH novel Betrayer.
The WS Stormseers openly used their powers throughout their HH novel Scars.
SW are being discussed in this thread.

Im pretty sure the only legion to follow Nikea completely were the Fists, who went too far IMHO and locked their librarians up away from everyone else.

Well Mortarion hated psykers, so he severely enforced the Edict. Roboute respected it until Calth.

Yeah, a lot of Legions weren't that strict in enforcing the Edict. The only reason the Thousand Sons got wolfed for it was because Magnus was stupid and decided he had to show off his powers by sending a psychic message to the Emperor which fried millions of Astropaths and ruined the Webway Project and with it all hope of a safe and peaceful future for humanity.
The Emperor was understandably really, really, really mad about that.
Magnus destroyed his life's work, which was way more serious than the small violations of the Edict of Nikea that happened in the other legions. That is why the TS got wolfed for it while the others did not.

The TS got Wolfed because Russ didn't do what the Emperor said and, instead, did what Horus said. Horus is the one that told Russ to burn Prospero, not the Emperor, which, of course, drove the surviving TSons right into rebellion.

The wolfs are just rabid dogs who can only attack and kill how anyone thinks they can follow orders is silly

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yeah, a lot of Legions weren't that strict in enforcing the Edict. The only reason the Thousand Sons got wolfed for it was because Magnus was stupid and decided he had to show off his powers by sending a psychic message to the Emperor which fried millions of Astropaths and ruined the Webway Project and with it all hope of a safe and peaceful future for humanity.
The Emperor was understandably really, really, really mad about that.
Magnus destroyed his life's work, which was way more serious than the small violations of the Edict of Nikea that happened in the other legions. That is why the TS got wolfed for it while the others did not.

That, and Horus modified Empy's orders so that they read MURDER EVERYONE instead of "bring Magnus in for questioning."

yeah we don't know the emperor's actual intent, heck I'd say it's a safe bet the intent was th shout and him a bit and then draft him into helping contain the problem.

BrianDavion wrote:
yeah we don't know the emperor's actual intent, heck I'd say it's a safe bet the intent was th shout and him a bit and then draft him into helping contain the problem.

Or it was always his plan to make him sit on the golden throne for all eternity, so this was all just a setup to guilt him into it

 Lord_Inquisitor_Doge wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yeah, a lot of Legions weren't that strict in enforcing the Edict. The only reason the Thousand Sons got wolfed for it was because Magnus was stupid and decided he had to show off his powers by sending a psychic message to the Emperor which fried millions of Astropaths and ruined the Webway Project and with it all hope of a safe and peaceful future for humanity.
The Emperor was understandably really, really, really mad about that.
Magnus destroyed his life's work, which was way more serious than the small violations of the Edict of Nikea that happened in the other legions. That is why the TS got wolfed for it while the others did not.

That, and Horus modified Empy's orders so that they read MURDER EVERYONE instead of "bring Magnus in for questioning."

Horus made things a lot worse for both sides.

OP, I assume this is the reason for this thread: https://youtu.be/ihskUz0obzY?t=20m49s