8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)

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**Quickjager**

Kahor wrote:
So I'm trying to think of some interesting combinations with the new codex that could be fun to play (I don't really play competitively).

A land raider containing 2 squads of purifiers could be fun when paired with gate. I was thinking I could pair it with a stormraven that has a dreadnought and/or more purifiers in it that can fly over first turn.

The land raider could be gated by almost anything on the back line where you could also have a tri-las pred (assuming we still get this in the codex). The psyker could then cast the power on the pred that allows it to fire without requiring line of sight.

Thinking about it you could put a GM or Draigo at the backline with multiple tri-las preds. He could grant one the line of sight power and will give all the preds the reroll aura (I think). Its not as good as Big G but... what do you guys think? Just throwing out some thoughts.

We don't have predator access.

**Kahor**

Quickjager wrote:
Kahor wrote:
So I'm trying to think of some interesting combinations with the new codex that could be fun to play (I don't really play competitively).

A land raider containing 2 squads of purifiers could be fun when paired with gate. I was thinking I could pair it with a stormraven that has a dreadnought and/or more purifiers in it that can fly over first turn.

The land raider could be gated by almost anything on the back line where you could also have a tri-las pred (assuming we still get this in the codex). The psyker could then cast the power on the pred that allows it to fire without requiring line of sight.

Thinking about it you could put a GM or Draigo at the backline with multiple tri-las preds. He could grant one the line of sight power and will give all the preds the reroll aura (I think). Its not as good as Big G but... what do you guys think? Just throwing out some thoughts.

We don't have predator access.

Wow really? That feels so silly. Can we not use it from the marine codex and put our chapter keyword in there? (I've only got the indexes at the moment).

[edit]

I suppose an alternative would be to do the Land Raider gate play with the storm raven. Then drop Draigo between them via deep strike.
You can keep the librarian (or whatever cast gate) at the backline with a single twin lascannon razorback to do some long range damage without line of sight.

**Quickjager**

Nope, if you look in the Intro to the GK section of the Index, it lists the units we may take from the SM section.

**Kahor**

Quickjager wrote:
Nope, if you look in the Intro to the GK section of the Index, it lists the units we may take from the SM section.

Ah shoot, quite right. Well... that sucks

**Coyote81**

Bigfashizzel wrote:
The biggest issue for me right now is the scarcity of command points. Even at 2k its hard to manage more than 1 command point per turn.

It feels like every game is going to hinge on a single battle round, which I guess is cool?

This is why I'm going to play like my old daemon hunters and bring IG for battlefield presence and CPs.

**HeavenLord**

Weel, Chapter approved just destroyed us with Objectives secured for every troops and with the new turn 1 rule...

**Xenomancers**

GK don't win based on objectives - they win on annihilation or are annihilated - that how melee alpha strike armies work.

**HeavenLord**

Ok but Having now 40% chance to loose the turn 1 (without taknig in account the steal of inititative + rerrol) is pretty bad for us...

**daedalus**

HeavenLord wrote:
Ok but Having now 40% chance to loose the turn 1 (without taknig in account the steal of inititative + rerrol) is pretty bad for us...

Even that much more reason to MSU GKSS I suppose.

**HeavenLord**

What do you think about this list (in a semi-competitive environment)?

Bataillon detachment:

HQ:

Kaldor Draigo

Grandmaster in nemesis Dreadknight (psilencer/psycanon/sword) (warlord trait: reroll charges )

Troops:

10 Strike quad (10 falchions) Combat squad if i have less drops than my ooponent

10 strike squad (10 falchions) Combat squad if i have less drops than my ooponent

5 Strike squad (psilencer / 4 falchions)

Vanguard detachment

HQ:

Brother Captain (relic: Soul glaive)

Elites:

5 Purifier squad (4 falchions / Hammer)

5 Purifier squad (4 falchions / Hammer)

1 venerable Dreadnought (Multi melta / CCW)

Flyer:

Stormraven (TAC / TMM / SSL / THB)

Total: 2000 pts and 7 CP

All the Vanguard detachment in the stormraven and the rest in deepstrike.

Thanks guys !

**Xenomancers**

HeavenLord wrote:
What do you think about this list (in a semi-competitive environment)?

Bataillon detachment:

HQ:

Kaldor Draigo

Grandmaster in nemesis Dreadknight (psilencer/psycanon/sword) (warlord trait: reroll charges )

Troops:

10 Strike quad (10 falchions) Combat squad if i have less drops than my ooponent

10 strike squad (10 falchions) Combat squad if i have less drops than my ooponent

5 Strike squad (psilencer / 4 falchions)

Vanguard detachment

HQ:

Brother Captain (relic: Soul glaive)

Elites:

5 Purifier squad (4 falchions / Hammer)

5 Purifier squad (4 falchions / Hammer)

1 venerable Dreadnought (Multi melta / CCW)

Flyer:

Stormraven (TAC / TMM / SSL / THB)

Total: 2000 pts and 7 CP

All the Vanguard detachment in the stormraven and the rest in deepstrike.

Thanks guys !

This looks like an excellent semi competitive list. A little variety - still very strong.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

HeavenLord wrote:
Ok but Having now 40% chance to loose the turn 1 (without taknig in account the steal of inititative + rerrol) is pretty bad for us...

Can you explain?

**HeavenLord**

Thanks !

With the new rule to know who will have the turn 1, both players roll a dice. And the layer who has deployed all his units first will have a +1 on the roll.

Do you have an example of a very GK competitive list ? Are Razrbacks, Paladins, Stormravens mandatory for going cheese ?

**Bigfashizzel**

You still can only Deepstrike the same number of units as you're putting on the board. Embarking in a transport doesn't count, since they're all placed as one.

That means you'd have 6 drops (3 strike squads, Draigo, Dreadknight, and the Stormraven). So you could deep strike 3 Units.

You'd have to leave some heavy dudes on the table, since if the only unit you have on the table is the flier you instantly lose.

So lets imagine that you have the StormRaven, Draigo, and the GM DK on the table. Your opponent has 2000 points with which to kill two special characters to win the game. I guess you can get the GM DK to a 2++ if you go first, or a 3++ if you use Heed the Prognosticators. Draigo can get to 2++ with the same Strategem.

That seems reasonable. I'm not sure how many wounds Draigo or the GM DK has, but they'd certainly take a lot of shooting to kill.

**HeavenLord**

I am not sure to understand you.
Regarding the rules, my units inside transports are in the battlefield so I can have 5 deep striking units.

Also, I do not instantly lose if I have only my flyer because I still have my turn to deep strike my 5 units.

**Fueli**

Bigfashizzel wrote:
You still can only Deepstrike the same number of units as you're putting on the board. Embarking in a transport doesn't count, since they're all placed as one.

That means you'd have 6 drops (3 strike squads, Draigo, Dreadknight, and the Stormraven). So you could deep strike 3 Units.

You'd have to leave some heavy dudes on the table, since if the only unit you have on the table is the flier you instantly lose.

So lets imagine that you have the StormRaven, Draigo, and the GM DK on the table. Your opponent has 2000 points with which to kill two special characters to win the game. I guess you can get the GM DK to a 2++ if you go first, or a 3++ if you use Heed the Prognosticators. Draigo can get to 2++ with the same Strategem.

That seems reasonable. I'm not sure how many wounds Draigo or the GM DK has, but they'd certainly take a lot of shooting to kill.

All units on table count, in transport or not. And the flyer penalty only comes in on turn two when he has his reserves on board too.

**Bigfashizzel**

Thank you both, I've been playing the deep strike rules wrong since the edition dropped. That makes this edition much more comfortable.

That makes the list a lot better!

Running a Captain with purifiers is great.

Looks good.

**Godeskian**

The turn one change does not affect the missions I'm the core rulebook. As per the posted 40k community article.

'' If you prefer the original method though, worry not! These new missions do not replace the matched play missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, they supplement them, allowing you to choose the style of mission rules you enjoy playing the most.''

**MaxT**

Godeskian wrote:
The turn one change does not affect the missions I'm the core rulebook. As per the posted 40k community article.

'' If you prefer the original method though, worry not! These new missions do not replace the matched play missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, they supplement them, allowing you to choose the style of mission rules you enjoy playing the most.''

No, but expect opponents to want to play it that way. And all tournies will.

**jcd386**

Fueli wrote:
Bigfashizzel wrote:
You still can only Deepstrike the same number of units as you're putting on the board. Embarking in a transport doesn't count, since they're all placed as one.

That means you'd have 6 drops (3 strike squads, Draigo, Dreadknight, and the Stormraven). So you could deep strike 3 Units.

You'd have to leave some heavy dudes on the table, since if the only unit you have on the table is the flier you instantly lose.

So lets imagine that you have the StormRaven, Draigo, and the GM DK on the table. Your opponent has 2000 points with which to kill two special characters to win the game. I guess you can get the GM DK to a 2++ if you go first, or a 3++ if you use Heed the Prognosticators. Draigo can get to 2++ with the same Strategem.

That seems reasonable. I'm not sure how many wounds Draigo or the GM DK has, but they'd certainly take a lot of shooting to kill.

All units on table count, in transport or not. And the flyer penalty only comes in on turn two when he has his reserves on board too.

I'm pretty sure units that are in transports are not on the table.

**L0adedDice**

Wow, I can't believe the librarians get rites of banishment.
Really feels like I just wasted $100 and two days converting up the 3 I just bought...

I was trying to be rather positive about the codex until hearing that.

Hopefully when I get it in my hands tomorrow I'll see you were lying and librarians are still playable

**Spartacus**

Shame you got 3. My one libby will be casting Purge Soul and Vortex of Doom every turn anyway, I think he will do just fine.

**Quickjager**

Has anyone seen a reason to include an Stormhawk over a Stormraven in their list? For about a 100 point difference you get a more survivable, accurate, transport gunship.

I just don't see it, what role it fulfills....

**L0adedDice**

What are peoples thoughts in support battalions.to increase our command points..

You can get a budget 3 command points for 180pts support battalion over 32 guardsmen.

I'm also considering adding 3 small scout units and two space marine librarians for some full strength smite and the battalions worth of command points.

Anyone else with ideas?

**jeffersonian000**

Quickjager wrote:
Has anyone seen a reason to include an Stormhawk over a Stormraven in their list? For about a 100 point difference you get a more survivable, accurate, transport gunship.

I just don't see it, what role it fulfills....

You already stated the difference, about 100 points. That's pretty much a no brainer.

SJ

**Spartacus**

I have the codex in hand:

Confirmation that all points prices are the same as the index, aside from Terminators up 2 points.

GM DK is indeed 190 points base.

Chaplain is 144 plus storm bolter. Crozius arcanum is free.

Also, for some reason the Twin Heavy Plasma cannon on the Stormraven has nearly doubled in price. Meh.

**jcd386**

L0adedDice wrote:
What are peoples thoughts in support battalions.to increase our command points..

You can get a budget 3 command points for 180pts support battalion over 32 guardsmen.

I'm also considering adding 3 small scout units and two space marine librarians for some full strength smite and the battalions worth of command points.

Anyone else with ideas?

I think it is definitely a valid option, though you get some hate from the purists.

I think IG would work particularly well in a list that is trying to deepstrike the GK units on the first turn, and SM would work well in a more on the table kind of list.

**L0adedDice**

jcd386 wrote:
L0adedDice wrote:
What are peoples thoughts in support battalions.to increase our command points..

You can get a budget 3 command points for 180pts support battalion over 32 guardsmen.

I'm also considering adding 3 small scout units and two space marine librarians for some full strength smite and the battalions worth of command points.

Anyone else with ideas?

I think it is definitely a valid option, though you get some hate from the purists.

I think IG would work particularly well in a list that is trying to deepstrike the GK units on the first turn, and SM would work well in a more on the table kind of list.

Meh Purists, i want full strength Smite damn it!!

I'm also liking the idea of putting Might of Hero's on a Draigo or Voldus, as they're target friendly Adeptus Astartes Unit.

**creeping-deth87**

Spartacus wrote:
I have the codex in hand:

Confirmation that all points prices are the same as the index, aside from Terminators up 2 points.

GM DK is indeed 190 points base.

Chaplain is 144 plus storm bolter. Crozius arcanum is free.

Also, for some reason the Twin Heavy Plasma cannon on the Stormraven has nearly doubled in price. Meh.

Are the points costs for the weapons the same as well? If so I will definitely pass on this book

**gossipmeng**

I think it is safe to say that a pure grey knight list will be difficult to make competitive and that a detachment of guard will be required - for both CP and holding rear objectives.

**Audustum**

creeping-deth87 wrote:
Spartacus wrote:
I have the codex in hand:

Confirmation that all points prices are the same as the index, aside from Terminators up 2 points.

GM DK is indeed 190 points base.

Chaplain is 144 plus storm bolter. Crozius arcanum is free.

Also, for some reason the Twin Heavy Plasma cannon on the Stormraven has nearly doubled in price. Meh.

Are the points costs for the weapons the same as well? If so I will definitely pass on this book

Yes, all points are the same except the extra 2PPM for Terminators. No loadout changes for anybody either except Librarians can no longer take Storm Shields (just like Codex Space Marines can't either now).