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em_en_oh_pee wrote: With all the point cuts to the tanks - does a mechanized list look viable? Specifically, Primaris only - so Impulsors, Gladiators, Repulsors, etc.
Not Primaris-only but I'm gonna try this list in my next game;
1995 pts or so. Not supercompetitive but should perform alright.
Both types of Repulsors and all variants of Gladiators (maybe not the Valiant) look pretty decent now so a Primaris-only armoured company type of list can probably be made to work.
I intuitively want 2 (or maybe even3) outriders in something like that. seem very good for just zipping about, tagging objectives, being a decent anti infantry threat in both phases, being really cheap and theoretically even able to maybe clear a weak objective. They have decent survivability at t5 and a being reasonable target for transhuman (okay, calling outriders tough is a stretch maybe).
at 105 I feel these could crowd my fast attack slots in the near future..
Scoundrel80 wrote: how do we like tactical spam now? im thinking like.. 10x5 mans with melta, hammer and multimelta and sticky obsec? its 900 points. 100 wounds behind t4/3+. you could put some of them in rhinos or whatever. idk if its strong, but I sort of want to try it.
I love Tactical spam now, although I sorta always love Tactical spam. But yeah, mad Heavy/Special weapons distribution is always tempting. As pointed out, Sternguard work great in this role as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/15 05:22:00
Hammer and anvil, essentially. Impulsor with BG and Apoth move up with the Inceptors as the hammer. The rest is the anvil. I think it makes decent use of the Chapter perks.
Thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/15 09:34:42
Plasma Inceptors are not heavy, so you won't be getting iron hands rerolls on them. Maybe drop one of the troops for a jump captain to babysit them for aura's and counter charges?
2023/01/15 17:21:44
Subject: Re:9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica
Insularum wrote: Plasma Inceptors are not heavy, so you won't be getting iron hands rerolls on them. Maybe drop one of the troops for a jump captain to babysit them for aura's and counter charges?
Inceptors look Incredibly strong and are also rad models, which for me is a win-win, even if they don't directly benefit from Calculated Fury. Hmm, how about a Primaris Chappy on a Bike with Recitation for the boosted roll and the counter charge. Trying to stay fully Primaris, that would do the trick to at least allow overcharging Plasma safely. I would bump to Master of Sanctity to use Wise Orator to give him some optimal combo of Litanies for combat.
I could cut the Inceptors down to just one big squad to make room for that Chappy and maybe with any savings drop a Heavy Intercessor Squad for another Redemptor or Gladiator.
Hammer and anvil, essentially. Impulsor with BG and Apoth move up with the Inceptors as the hammer. The rest is the anvil. I think it makes decent use of the Chapter perks.
Thoughts?
looks beautiful. Wouldn't change anything, I think. Those inceptors will crush even without them being heavy and they give a bit of mobility + deep strike options.
Scoundrel80 wrote: how do we like tactical spam now? im thinking like.. 10x5 mans with melta, hammer and multimelta and sticky obsec? its 900 points. 100 wounds behind t4/3+. you could put some of them in rhinos or whatever. idk if its strong, but I sort of want to try it.
I love Tactical spam now, although I sorta always love Tactical spam. But yeah, mad Heavy/Special weapons distribution is always tempting. As pointed out, Sternguard work great in this role as well.
what. Just checked out sterns. So you can get 3 melta guns and 2 multi meltas for.. 100? thats just silly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/15 18:39:00
2023/01/15 22:13:33
Subject: Re:9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica
sorry for spamming but im just so hyped on how crazy the new prizes are. its a bit silly actually. Rule of three neuters a lot of the worst spam but as it doesn't count for troops, so try to check this out:
Spoiler:
+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) +++
++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Imperial Fists) ++
+ Configuration +
**Chapter Selector**: Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists Successor
Arks of Omen Compulsory Type: Elites
Battle Size: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Game Type: 5. Chapter Approved: Arks of Omen
+ HQ +
Pedro Kantor: Stoic Defender, Warlord
Primaris Captain: Stratagem: Champion of Blades, The Eye of Hypnoth
. Heavy bolt pistol, Master-crafted power sword and Relic shield
Primaris Lieutenant
. Neo-volkite pistol, Master-crafted power sword and Storm Shield
So this is 8x5 man tactical squads with full meltas and hammers/lightning claw, a terminator castle walking up the middle with a doc and Pedro Kantor (yeah, I know Crison FIsts suck. I just love them) who grants obsec and extra attacks. 2x5 stern guard vets in a drop pod delete something, the melta bikes can help with big targets too. one squad of infiltrators just to be able to screen with the 12" bubble and do guerilla tactic shenanigans. A landspeeder storm can move block and score maybe.
Reserves are free now, so thats why no rhinos. Maybe the list should run 1-2. There are plenty of hit/wound buffs to go around between chapter master, 2x captain, eye of hypnoth and the lieutenant. Im not sure all this is even needed, so potentially we could have even more bodies, a power unit like chappie on bike to support the guys instead or maybe another fast unit.
it can't do anything fancy, but it should cover the board rather well and were talking 46 melta shots after all. Everything has sticky obsec, basically and the list should screen the life out of any army. The value compared to nephilim is insane. Each tac squad is a whopping 40 points cheaper now. so thats almost 400 points right there.
I might be totally wrong, but I think something like this looks super strong. as said, theres a lot of wiggle room.
I initially toyed around with a base of 10x tactical just to see what else you could fit in next to 50 MSU marines with 30 meltashots. I made one with a 2x redemptor shooting castle with a techie and I made one with fast stuff zipping forward. outriders, land speeders. that sort of thing. But I settled on the termie walking castle as I figure they will draw a lot of fire allowing the marines to get into position. and if not they will just sit there and win the game hopefully. They synergies decently with Pedro too and it feels wrong to build a list with no targets for selfless healer. I went down to 8 tac squads to fit some of the neat stuff but im not sure I shouldn't go back to 10, actually. Or maybe fit a third termie unit.
rhinos or no rhinos is a headache.
Also, If im im totally off with this crazy tactical spam line of thought, then please tell me : D
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/01/15 22:25:27
It felt both satisfying and a bit odd to more or less flood the table with vehicles / marines
Gotta hand it for GW with this update, for all my issues with the overall removal of cost for wargear, they've made listbuilding with SM much more fun.
(*Scouts are still bad though, they should cost 14-15 ppm, be Troops and have 2W - but I digress.)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/16 00:25:50
No, as bolter discipline affects RAPID FIRE type weapons and that relic is an ASSAULT type.
So youd get 3 shots, regardless of range or movement
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/19 23:03:46
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
2023/01/25 23:58:39
Subject: Re:9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica
I tried them in a low point crusade game. They hit hard, but can’t take a punch. And on a small table with very little unit saturation, that did not go well for them.
On a bigger table where they could hide better, in a larger game where other units are a higher priority to kill, I think they could be a fun addition to a list. Good range, good mobility, decent volume of mid S shots. They don’t excel at anything, but do a lot of stuff pretty good.
Unless someone looks at them funny, where they die as quick as a basic battle brother.
Scoundrel80 wrote: what about tacticals? 5mans with melta and multi melta and hammer for 90. do we like them? sticky obsec and not restricted by rule of three.
I was getting good use out of melta tacs before they got their toys for free, so I’m a fan.
But I’m a fluffy kinda guy who always wants a couple tactical squads in my list, even when they were not the “correct” choice, so YMMV.
I’ve not looked at scouts closely for a while, but the lack of the 2nd wound and moving to the elite slot was not good for them. With free gear and the less restrictive FOC of the new season? Might help. A LSS with 5 scouts is 110 points, which is not outrageous for splashing some utility into your list. If you are looking to min/max resilience and firepower, there might be better options
Speeders are squishy. Always have been. Even with the old armor value system they could be brought down by small arms. The lived with a few tricks. Being fast meant they could hide, and then jump out and blast something. They were often also low on the threat radar. Something else on the battlefield probably needed to die before shots got allocated to them. Historically I’ve gotten a lot of use out of TML/HB speeders flitting around the edges of the fight. Not sure that’s the best choice these days.
Fast Melta is in a good place right now, and speeders deliver. Are there better platforms? Attack bikes and the ATV have some compelling perks. Can speeders do the job? Yes.
Honestly, I forgot about the new speeders, because I don’t like the way they look.
(Grain of salt, these are just my Saturday morning musings over a cup of coffee and the codex, not play experience. Also, from an Ultramarine PoV)
I remember checking the numbers when they came out and they were real top heavy glass hammers. Too big to hide easy, and packing so much firepower on such a fragile platform that they lost the “there might be something better to shoot” path to survival.
They have enough wounds to have a degrading profile. To be fair, if you put that many wounds on the smaller speeders, they would be a smoking crater. (OK, not quite, but close) T6 10W with a 3+ is not that rugged. Anything even moderately AV is going to burn through that pretty quick
The Hailstrike is the low cost option. But what does it bring to the list? A decent chunk of light anti-horde firepower. Do you need that? Could be used to zip around the backfield and blow campers off of hard to reach objectives. Personally I tend I have enough of this kinda shooting from my troops, but that’s how I build my lists. YMMV.
The Hammerstrike is such a glorious glass hammer. So much firepower, so little toughness. There is no way your opponent can allow this thing to get 2 chances to shoot, and it won’t take much to get it off the table. Reserve tricks a/o other shenanigans might help ensure you get your one shot though. Would you be better served with an attack bike/ATV squadron or even just a pair of regular MM speeders? Maybe. It’s fast melta with a bonus ML. There are a lot of platforms that can deliver this role. Also points are starting to get up there. 125 points will also get a Gladiator Lancer, to keep on the theme for floating killy things.
The Thunderstike has a point of BS over its kin (which helps with the degrading profile), but is also the most expensive option. Less range dependent than the others as well. But with the good range, ask why are you paying for the speed? And the sacrifice in toughness? Might as well go for one of the more tanky options.
Looking at the 3 of them, if I needed to include one in my list it would probably be the Hammerstrike. It does a job I need done, and should do it pretty well. Is it the most efficient option? Maybe not. But it should be effective. The others are either a role I generally don’t need filled (Hailstrike) or feel that other units do significantly better (Thunderstrike)
The Stormspeeders are all varying degrees of overpriced.
The Thunderstrike costs more than a Gladiator Lancer and is ...worse?
The Hailstrike brings a bunch of dakka for a fairly high pricetag and I don't find I need that kind of firepower in my lists.
The Hammerstrike is the only one of the three I find somewhat decent. It's still an expensive glasscannon but it can pay for itself quite easily against the right targets if given the chance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/29 00:47:40
5500 pts 6500 pts 7000 pts 9000 pts 13.000 pts
2023/01/28 23:30:17
Subject: Re:9th edition Space Marine Codex Tactica
The Storm Speeders are pretty good in Dark Angels because they get the Ravenwing benefits (5++ that becomes a 4++ if they advance, and now that they can stay in Dev doctrine all game they can advance and still shoot any time they want pretty much). Of course, DA also have the excellent Land Speeder Vengeance that is slightly cheaper and doesn't degrade.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
On thing to note if you use the regular landspeeder as a multimelta delivery service they have a neat boost to whirldwinds.
I have always liked 1 whirldwind in my list to threaten small units holding objectives on their own.
Datalink Telemetry: At the start of your Shooting phase, select one enemy unit that is within 18" of and visible to this unit. Until the end of the phase, each time a friendly SPACE WOLVES WHIRLWIND model makes an attack with a weapon that has the Blast ability against the selected unit, add 1 to that attack’s hit roll.
5500 pts 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
Competition Index
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~3500 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1200 | Tyranids: 