Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With the advent of the new Squats and Daemons being a thing, the Icon for any MoT squad has gotten significantly less useful.

Melevolence wrote:
It's mainly because I had points left over and it gives the Havoc Champion something to do if an enemy gets close. A bolter won't do much, never been a fan of plasma pistols and flamer is probably always a dud option.

Then why not Plasma Guns, so they can do something out to 24" rather than just 12"?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
It's mainly because I had points left over and it gives the Havoc Champion something to do if an enemy gets close. A bolter won't do much, never been a fan of plasma pistols and flamer is probably always a dud option.

Then why not Plasma Guns, so they can do something out to 24" rather than just 12"?

I could, I spose. I just feel like Plasma never earns it's keep and supercharging always ends up in my dude blowing up somehow XD I still have time to make a decision as I've not finished assembling the champions just yet. I just get weary with Plasma on basic dudes since they can just off themselves when Slaanesh needs a good chuckle (Which feels like often when I've used Plasma in the past).

We'll see though.

Meltas for Havoc champion in Rhino (+shared taxi with Chosen) is gold.

Do people thing that 3 spawns are worth against a 5 strong legionary squad (point difference will go to extra cultist I suppose).

Vatsetis wrote:
Meltas for Havoc champion in Rhino (+shared taxi with Chosen) is gold.

Do people thing that 3 spawns are worth against a 5 strong legionary squad (point difference will go to extra cultist I suppose).

Kinda different. Chaos spawn are cheaper, in FA slot, fight well, quite tanky, irritating to kill. The 5 strong legionaire squad has troop slot, obsec (if its just bare bones). You need to spend more points for the squad to be threatening in melee, like bring power fist and/or heavy axe.

Vatsetis wrote:
Meltas for Havoc champion in Rhino (+shared taxi with Chosen) is gold.

Do people thing that 3 spawns are worth against a 5 strong legionary squad (point difference will go to extra cultist I suppose).

I'd say it depends on what your army needs as they fill different roles with a tad of overlap.

I made room in my list for two squads of two Spawn to use as objective hoppers or to skirt around and harass/bully things they can shred up or just tie up something annoying if they aren't dealt with. I can't think of much use for a basic 5 man Legionaries squad though. I feel like they'd just sit on the back lot if they ended up on a list due to spare points. Keep them in cover to make them a little tougher to remove from an objective but I'm not sure how much they'd contribute otherwise without being kitted out in order to DO something else XD

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Then why not Plasma Guns, so they can do something out to 24" rather than just 12"?

Probably not a bad idea for a Havoc squad, however, I kept running into issues with rapid fire weapons as opposed to assault weapons playing EC over the weekend. It may be just a matter of practice with the army and knowing when/how/why to use different movement modes.

I actually don't really plan to use Havocs for my EC army, going to try some Legionaries as I think I can load the heavy weapon difference into troop units and keep Obliterators in play.

Melevolence wrote:
So I'm nearing completion for my first EC list. ONLY the Sorcerer, MOP, melee Noise, Spawn and Helbrutes to do x.x

Just figured I'd post it here and get feedback. For sure, not by any means a highly competitive or even fully optimized list but seems fun as a general comers list that doesn't feel min/max/gamey either. Just some fun stuff to try out.

Emperor's Children

HQs:

Chaos Lord - Thunder Hammer, Power Fist
Warlord - Faultless Duelest
Mark of Slaanesh
Relic - Thaa'Ris & Rhi'ol

Master of Possession
Warp's Malice (-1CP, Relic), Staff of Possession
Mark of Slaanesh
Spells: Smite, Delightful Agonies, Mutated Invigoration, Pact of Flesh

Sorcerer
Bolt Pistol, Force Stave
Relic: Liber Hereticus (-1CP)
Spells: Smite, Delightful Agonies, Diabolic Strength, Warptime

Troops:

Noise Marines
x 9 Marines,
x9 Bolt Pistols/Chain Swords
Champion - Bolt Pistol, Power Fist, Doom Siren
Icon
Relic: Black Rune of the Damned (-1CP)

Noise Marines
x4 Sonic Blasters
x1 Blast Master

Noise Marines
x4 Sonic Blasters
x1 Blast Master

Noise Marines
x4 Sonic Blasters
x1 Blast Master

Elites:

Helbrute
Multi-Melta, Brute Fist w/ Flamer
Mark of Slaanesh

Helbrute
Multi-Melta, Brute Fist w/ Flamer

Fast Attack:

Chaos Spawn
x2

Chaos Spawn
x 2

Heavy Support:

Havocs
2 Las Cannons
2 Missile Launchers
1 Champion
Melta, Chainsword

Havocs
2 Las Cannons
2 Missile Launchers
1 Champion
Melta, Chainsword

Obliterators
x3

2,000pts on the dot, still 9 CP remaining.

Again, mostly a fun list for playing with friends or just random pick up games at the local shop. No powerhouse list and focusing on some less than optimal choices (Such as using melee Noise Marines with the rune instead of the obligatory Termies or Chosen). Going for a 'Smash Lord' instead of a Prince or slotting in Abadon or something silly.

Ranged back field with oblits/havocs and sonic Noise Marines (Who can camp deployment objectives, sonic Noise Marines can move about as needed to snag objectives), charge up with the melee Noise Marines with the Lord, MOP, Sorcerer in tow to be shielded by the Noise lads while buffing them for further survival/ressurection and when close enough, buff the Lord and crash him into the enemy. Helbrutes stomping up the field towards ideal targets, either drawing all sorts of gunfire and (if they survive) bonking things around in melee or melta/flaming them. The Spawn rushing forward to harass or be dealt with or plop on an objective.

MANTLE OF TRAITORS on your lord as second relic. Reroll melee, one stratagem free, but also one squad reroll 1s is nice. Alternative intoxicating elexir.

Drop the special weapons on Havocs champion. He dies first to save a lascanon missle launcher dude.

Combimelta on sorcerer, because you can shoot both profiles without malus as of emperor children - nevermind only possible on sorcerer in Terminator armour.

Go for three units of spawns with 2 1 1 for maximum flexibility, also 1 might also camp on a backfield objective, so you can do it for half the price with 25 points instead of 50. Or 3 1 for Character protection

Give all your noise marine troops icons because they are free.

Heavy flamers are nice, but most often you don't wanna shoot them to not lengthen your charge. Also rule of cool would be with the helbrute hammer. So you hammer him, roll damage 1, your opponent grins, you pop murderous perfection (
you can change the result of one hit roll, one wound roll or one damage roll to be a 6) and change the damage to flat 6. Then you
say hammer time, do the dance
Works also with your lord. Would also free up enough points with the dropped havoc champion melta for another spawn. Would be cool. But your flamer fist combo should be better. Just finally those cool Helbrute Hammers in action! They should have given them a swing/smash profile to be viable.

Nice idea with the lord with thal and rapcious and fist hammer. Still I am loving lucius.
Last idea, drop the Sorcerer, do the hammer combo and drop one melta on havocs to have enough points to bring lucius. Change the warlord trait of your smash lord to loathsome grace to give him some speed +2 movement and rerolls charge and advance. Each character gets a protective hammer helbrute and make every game an emperor's children gentleman's duel between those two who can clear his flank first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, making a gentleman's duel between Lucius and the Chaos Lord is too cool (in the same detachment). It would be too awesome on the table and too true to the lore of emperor's children. That's why GW forbid it and you can only have one Chaos Lord as Lucius counts as one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could still do the gentleman's duel between your chaos Lord and a master of Execution with warps malic and flames of spite though. Your MoP needs the liber hereticus anyway when you drop the sorcerer.

Fip wrote:
...Also rule of cool would be with the helbrute hammer. So you hammer him, roll damage 1, your opponent grins, you pop murderous perfection (
you can change the result of one hit roll, one wound roll or one damage roll to be a 6) and change the damage to flat 6. Then you
say hammer time, do the dance

Just as a note, you have to declare Murderous Perfection when the unit is selected to shoot or fight. No waiting until you need it for a damage roll.

 Warlawk wrote:

Fip wrote:
...Also rule of cool would be with the helbrute hammer. So you hammer him, roll damage 1, your opponent grins, you pop murderous perfection (
you can change the result of one hit roll, one wound roll or one damage roll to be a 6) and change the damage to flat 6. Then you
say hammer time, do the dance

Just as a note, you have to declare Murderous Perfection when the unit is selected to shoot or fight. No waiting until you need it for a damage roll.

Im pretty sure 95% of oponents wont notice, and for the other 5% you have the plausible deniability of not understanding the rule yourself.

Thats the the difference between a 40K pro gamer and a filthy casual.

Vatsetis wrote:
Im pretty sure 95% of oponents wont notice, and for the other 5% you have the plausible deniability of not understanding the rule yourself.

Thats the the difference between a 40K pro gamer and a filthy casual.

Recommending cheating?

Wonderful...

 Warlawk wrote:

Fip wrote:
...Also rule of cool would be with the helbrute hammer. So you hammer him, roll damage 1, your opponent grins, you pop murderous perfection (
you can change the result of one hit roll, one wound roll or one damage roll to be a 6) and change the damage to flat 6. Then you
say hammer time, do the dance

Just as a note, you have to declare Murderous Perfection when the unit is selected to shoot or fight. No waiting until you need it for a damage roll.

Well, I read the stratagem wrong. That makes it significantly less strong. Still it's one more ap and 3,5 dmg to having that flamer. I wonder what math would be better. Guess the flamer. Still - finally hammer Helbrutes in action

Don't cheat with it, dude! It only taints your victory for yourself and it ruins the friendly atmosphere.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
Im pretty sure 95% of oponents wont notice, and for the other 5% you have the plausible deniability of not understanding the rule yourself.

Thats the the difference between a 40K pro gamer and a filthy casual.

Recommending cheating?

Wonderful...

Yes, saying something exist means endorsing it. Dont you realise my post was dry humour


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fip wrote:

 Warlawk wrote:

Fip wrote:
...Also rule of cool would be with the helbrute hammer. So you hammer him, roll damage 1, your opponent grins, you pop murderous perfection (
you can change the result of one hit roll, one wound roll or one damage roll to be a 6) and change the damage to flat 6. Then you
say hammer time, do the dance

Just as a note, you have to declare Murderous Perfection when the unit is selected to shoot or fight. No waiting until you need it for a damage roll.

Well, I read the stratagem wrong. That makes it significantly less strong. Still it's one more ap and 3,5 dmg to having that flamer. I wonder what math would be better. Guess the flamer. Still - finally hammer Helbrutes in action

Don't cheat with it, dude! It only taints your victory for yourself and it ruins the friendly atmosphere.

Its only a cheat if you are proven you have the intent to cheat. Which aint possible.

But thankfully Im a troll and you cannot take my world for face value.

Perhaps I was simply rissing awareness of this issue so people wont cheat or forgot how this strat actually works.

Or Im really a Spycho, how knows for sure.

How big is a Chaos Spawn.

I KNOW it has a 50mm base.

But Im unsure of its size.

Its because Im looking for adecuate proxies.

Thanks in advance.

I use AoS Spirit Hosts in one of my chaos armies, but use the actual kits in the other.

Once you put the arms on the Spawn it does take up a good amount of space/volume.

If you are looking at 40mm base models I think they would need to be quite large models, e.g. I've seen the 4 big Gellerpox dudes used as half decent spawn.

Good info.

But I mean can someone actually measure the mini.

That would be awesome.

Thanks!!

Its all coming together now. We just had key words added/ changed that has made many of the martial legacy forgeworld units playable with our CSM armeis. So units like Decimaters and Brass Scorpians playable and benefit from our codex rules.

Also, chaos daemons and/or chaos knights that we have the option to add as agent of chaos options do open up even more options for us to round out our chaos armies.

Chaos Daemons as allies in particular, bring a lot of interesting options and units to our army.

Flamers, skull cannons, cheap castors like a transweaver, and even running one of the greater daemons like an exalted blood thirster is an option.

And while I know not everyone is happy about the squishy nature of daemon troops, but a unit of 10 blood letters dropping down in deep strike from the warp and rolling 3d6 picking the highest 2d6 for a charge is still a charge option that CSM didn't have, and they generally will wreck what they charge.

Looking forward to even more interesting lists people can come up with now that the full suit of chaos options has been brought up to 9th edition and can synergise with each other.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Its all coming together now. We just had key words added/ changed that has made many of the martial legacy forgeworld units playable with our CSM armeis. So units like Decimaters and Brass Scorpians playable and benefit from our codex rules.

Also, chaos daemons and/or chaos knights that we have the option to add as agent of chaos options do open up even more options for us to round out our chaos armies.

Chaos Daemons as allies in particular, bring a lot of interesting options and units to our army.

Flamers, skull cannons, cheap castors like a transweaver, and even running one of the greater daemons like an exalted blood thirster is an option.

And while I know not everyone is happy about the squishy nature of daemon troops, but a unit of 10 blood letters dropping down in deep strike from the warp and rolling 3d6 picking the highest 2d6 for a charge is still a charge option that CSM didn't have, and they generally will wreck what they charge.

Looking forward to even more interesting lists people can come up with now that the full suit of chaos options has been brought up to 9th edition and can synergise with each other.

Where can I find the changes?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/
https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/#warhammer-40000 (Balance Dataslate)

Now that the dust has settled and people habe more experience: What are the opinions on the book? How you think will NL and CoB fare? I currently can’t decide on a Legion to play/paint

Eldenfirefly wrote:

Also, chaos daemons and/or chaos knights that we have the option to add as agent of chaos options do open up even more options for us to round out our chaos armies.

And while I know not everyone is happy about the squishy nature of daemon troops, but a unit of 10 blood letters dropping down in deep strike from the warp and rolling 3d6 picking the highest 2d6 for a charge is still a charge option that CSM didn't have, and they generally will wreck what they charge.

Looking forward to even more interesting lists people can come up with now that the full suit of chaos options has been brought up to 9th edition and can synergise with each other.

Agreed, these are two of my favorite things to come out of the codex.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Z0t7VPricuNgylJU.pdf

40k rules for the Traitor Guard kill team, with the commissar ('enforcer') & ogryn split out into a character + bodyguard unit separate from the guard.

Initial impressions of the enforcer - I don't think you'll really see them. The ogryn has -1 damage and has special rules to let it tank for the enforcer, but the enforcer doesn't 'do' anything beyond preventing traitor guard attrition, which just isn't going to be that impactful. You'd also be paying 110 points for the duo.

For the guardsmen, a few nice things - you can give them a grenade launcher, meltagun, and plasmagun for free cause they're not listed in the points values. They otherwise cost exactly the same as a regular guard infantry squad. That's 10 points over the standard cultist squad, but those 10 points get you three special weapons and a 5+ save. Too bad of course you can't take duplicates of the special weapons, but having some kind of damage threat from your cultists isn't always a bad idea. You could in theory use a Dark Commune + Cult Leader (AL warlord trait) to make them hit on 3+ reroll 1s with extra -1AP, but that still seems more cute than good. I don't think any of the other cultist buffs have much synergy with them since most of them are restricted to being in melee. So it's probably worth just treating them like regular cultists who have special weapons.

If you were already taking cultists, have the 10 points to spare, weren't using cultist mob-specific strats and/or have guardsmen models with the appropriate special weapons, they probably will be reasonable replacements for the regular cultist mob.

The enforcer unit is probably no more than a cool unit rather than a great one, but it is a <legion> character unit so is viable for a lot of the buffs you would have access to normally so could pick up any spare abilities you haven't got anyone else to use them on.

Shame the guardsmen can't use the cool shotgun/shield model, but any build with any 3 guns looks good, maybe even good enough to trigger and use ritual offerings.

I'm disappointed that the Traitor Guard can't take Marks of Chaos, as that could add some additional flavor to them.

165 points gets you two squads of Traitor Guard and an Enforcer that makes them Fearless within 24", which isn't bad. They don't need to have anyone babysit them, they'll probably have to be killed to the last man, assuming you stash the Enforcer. At the very least you force your opponent to commit resources to removing the Enforcer or killing the Traitor Guard to the last man, either of which is probably not the worst trade in the world. In the meantime, they're raising banners, and doing other objective work away from the front line, theoretically freeing up the rest of your army to do the more serious work.

Obviously Cultists are cheaper and can do a lot of the same work, but they can also break easily to very light fire and are less durable.

I'll probably build out a couple squads to play around with them, I don't expect them to be life-changing, but I think they may have their uses.

Just noticed on Battlescribe that the Enforcer can be a Warlord, have relics, and benefit from some strats that only affect units with bolters (he has one). You could use the Dark communae as HQ, and cover with some legionnaires, terminators and chosen

I mean, its not possible to do a full-cultist list, but its a start!

What do you guys think of some like 4 Terrax Termite drills in an army with heavy flamers as a sort of "anvil" backbone for the army?

I'm split between the Black Legion (BL) or Creation of Bile (CoB).

Any opinions?

CoB is *the* meta for CSM and it'd definitely work will with a list below... but, I also think BL would work great too? Especially for the Termites getting the +1 to hit when firing the meltas (BS 2+) or assaulting (WS 3+).

I think I'd start the termites on the table too.

No matter the legion, putting units in the Termite on T1 and then disembarking at the start of the game gives each unit a free addition 3" movement, to grab/hold objectives throughout the table.

Basic list would be something like:


The strategy is simply bully the center table/objective camping using the Termites to protect Abby on foot.

Thoughts?

Are Termites Dedicated Transports?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Are Termites Dedicated Transports?

yes lol, makes about as much sense as the wave serpent or repulsor being one

LOL, yeah Termites are troop transports being T8, 3+ sv with AoC and decent shooting.

So, four T8 vehicles to try to dominate the middle and no-man land's objectives.

Just need to find some decent Secondary scoring.