Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys, recently i've been playing a lot with one of my friends. he plays Space Marines, Chapter tactics "The Angles Revenant", https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forge_World_Space_Marine_Chapter_Tactics_V2.pdf
but we houseruled it to affect Chaos Marines instead of Necrons.
Point is, he just cannot win a game. I played fluffy or totally stupid armies (i fielded mutilators. MUTILATORS. with footslogging berzerkers and terminator squads in landraiders...) Still he cannot win. We realized that he was lacking some basic skills of the game: deploying, target priority and "playing the mission" (aka scoring points)
So, i proposed to have a number of skirmishes where i could follow him trough the actual game and teach him something. I'm no tactical genius, but i'm still better than the average Ork Boy
I want to organize these "tactical lessons" by having a small campaign, with increasing point values and at least from the beginning, pre-set lists.

So, first game will be 500 pts, on a small (4 x 4 board)

Should be a small game about micromanaging and target priority.

I was thinking about 2 non-optimized lists and strong building density for the board.

Chaos list could be (representing a cult outburst led by some Chaos Marines)

-Chaos Lord
aura of glory
Mark of Slaanesh
twin claws
(125)

-15 cultists, flamer
(75)
-15 Cultists
(70)
-10 cultists, 8 autoguns, 1 heavy stubber
(73)


-5 Chosen
3 meltagun
Rhino, havoc launcher
(167)

While for his list i was thinking (representing a loyalist quick response unit)

-Predator
heavy bolter sponson
Sergeant chronos
(140)

-5 devastators
4 heavy bolters
Armorium cherub
Razorback
(170)

5 Scouts
5 snipers
(60)

5 Marines
heavy flamer
Rhino, w/ Hunter Killer missile, dozer blade
(130)


As first game this should give him an hedge over me, allowing for an easy learning lesson.

Do you have any suggestions about the scenario we should play? I was thinking about "The emperors will" on "Hammer and Anvil" (plain and simple)
Do you think the lists are well matched (on the space marines side )
Thanks for reading the text wall!

The Space Marines definitely have an advantage list-wise over the Chaos Space Marines. Any good player could use that SM list to shoot the CSM off the table... Perfect for teaching target priority! Obviously the lists aren't balanced for a take all comers environment but in this scenario they don't need to be.

For 500 point games I just like to play for kill points and use 12" deployment on a 4'x4' table. 500 points isn't enough to capture multiple objectives in my opinion.

The only thing you'll be teaching him is that over whelming shooting will kill lesser equipped foes. Which is the case for everything. From my experience, the only point of playing low point level games is to get an understanding of the rules. List tailoring just teaches you how to win in a one dimensional vacuum, which is kinda useless.

Lemme know how it goes. I just feel that trying to teach target priority comes with experience. Once you know what different units do, you learn how to deal with them AND when. Which also all has to do with the mission at hand. Taking out certain units at certain times isn't necessarily something you can teach someone. As much as this game is similar to chess in certain aspects, it is also much more complicated.

Like I said, tell us how it goes and if it accomplishes what you wanted it to.

 Billie_Joe wrote:
The only thing you'll be teaching him is that over whelming shooting will kill lesser equipped foes. Which is the case for everything. From my experience, the only point of playing low point level games is to get an understanding of the rules. List tailoring just teaches you how to win in a one dimensional vacuum, which is kinda useless.

Lemme know how it goes. I just feel that trying to teach target priority comes with experience. Once you know what different units do, you learn how to deal with them AND when. Which also all has to do with the mission at hand. Taking out certain units at certain times isn't necessarily something you can teach someone. As much as this game is similar to chess in certain aspects, it is also much more complicated.

Like I said, tell us how it goes and if it accomplishes what you wanted it to.

Thanks Billie Joe.
Do you think it would be better to just let him build his own lists from the beginning?
Also, would it be better to up the points to 1000 ? going too over this i fear it would just make his concentration/learning worse...
@gorgosaurusrex : i guess a kill point scenario could be the best, i agree.

To make it more even and more of a learning experience lose the predator and give him some assault marines. I think everyone understands gunline tactics but ganing an understanding of assault is better learned early.

You could also switch out the devastators for a tac squad and maybe add a chaplain with jump pack to the assault marines.

500 points means quick battles so you could probably do two in a little over 2 hours and discuss the mistakes and learning.

DAaddict you make some actual good suggestion.
I'll rework a list for a 1000 pts game, less gunline, more mobility and tactic involved.
Thanks a lot guys!

I wrote a big ass post that got lost in the warp. I'm not in the mood to rewrite it.
The synopsis:
we played the first two games.
He lost, but those were incredibly thight games, and my victory was marginal.
My pal still have some serious issues in deployment and reserve usage.
Also, he rolls snake eyes like he's living in a reptile house. That is definitely not helping him...
Third game we will play until he wins. He need to focus on deplyment and use reserves better.
He improved target selection and army synergy by a great deal.
Also, we will use the same list.

Librarian (biomancy)
5 marines w/flamer in razorback
10 marines w/flamer & heavy flamer in rhino
3 bikers, 2 plasmaguns
3 bikers, 2 plasmaguns
5 terminators, asscannon
5 terminators, hammers&shields

i'm missing some upgrades for shure. i think he played with some 30 pts more. that's fine. i realized that later.

I went for a cultist heavy list (3 units of 20), with an helbrute, a khorne lord with fury axe, raptors with melta, havocs with full melta in rhino and havocs with full flamers in rhino.

So, again, third game is going to be adlibitum until he wins.
and, of course, GLORY TO CHAOS!