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With a few games under my belt, I'd like to talk about Karist army composition. As a baseline, I've been running armies with larger units (so, you know, fewer units), a bit heavy on the Tempests (I love me some Ravager Pulse Cannons!), and singles of Shadow Walkers. However, I've had a bit of a problem with the Epirians having longer range shooting (as did my opponent; we switched armies).

I find that the Tempests punch a little above their weight class, and the Explosive ability is really nice. The mortars seem like they'd be better in bigger games, but I prefer a three-man team with Ravagers at this point.

The Karist Troopers are a very nice troop choice; I've been running four and five man squads for the most part. Has anyone been running three man squads, and if so, how do you kit them out (and how do you use them)?

I'm having problems with the Shadow Walker's combat effectiveness. Great for objective grabbing, but I have a hard time doing any damage. The Rad Grenades trigger defensive fire, so those have limited utility, and the two shots from the pistol never seem to amount to much. Am I just doing it wrong?

I've only used the mature angel once, and I'm still getting a feel for it. Seems like it's extremely effective as a distraction, but I haven't gotten it into close combat yet.

What are people out there using?

So, I haven't the gaming experience to help you out much (though now that I actually have two painted forces that might change soonish ). I can say that the Shadow Walker is in theory quite potent even in the face of defensive fire. Positioning him so he can charge, say, a 5-man unit of Contractors or a full unit of Spider Drones from behind (and possibly even denying cover), the defensive fire would be wild. Also, counting as on the move the Shadow Walker would have Dodge 1 (edit: Dodge 2, forgot about him being a mobile unit). On average, the Shadow Walker would take some damage, but not actually lose any FOR. In the following CQ fight he'd do quite a number on his target with his pistol (+ blade). Counting his Fearsome ability, and how he might get rid of the Squad Leader with the Precision Kill ability, he'd cause a fair few STs too. He might then snuff it if the target doesn't run, but if there's something you need to get rid of then, in a coordinated effort, maybe the Shadow Walker with its teleport move can be the 'long range' weapon you're looking for. Note all this is just theoretical from a cursory glance at the numbers, so may be utter balls

I hear you on the Shadow Walker, and it may be that I'm just too much of a pansy, but I'm leery of teleporting him into cover due to the extra STs he'll get. Also, maybe my opponent is canny, but I've never found a spot for the Shadow Walker that would allow him to NOT be in the line of fire of several units.

Maybe I simply need to take multiples to make them work. They're pretty squishy, but they do alright in close combat if you can get them there. I also haven't seen lots of small squads, so I think that limits their utility to a degree. They may just be one of those "in case the opponent is running a ton of small squads" thing; the more I think about it, the more I believe they're a good counter to that sort of thing.

I think I was punished so severely (and, in all fairness, brutalized my first opponent) with defensive fire that I'm a bit gunshy of it.

Yeah, well, when somebody throws 20 dice at your one model there's obviously the chance of him dying horribly despite the theoretical odds

Your topic makes me itchy to get playing... but yeah... must... paint... objectives...

I'll be running / have run against me the following lists when I finally get there:

Kaddar Nova 120pt detachment
1x Kaddar Nova
6 Angel Minnows
4 Karist Troopers: 1x Quintarch, 1x Radwave Emitter, 2x Dudes
5 Karist Assault Troopers: 1x Quintarch, 2x Ripper Grenade Launcher, 2x Dudes
3 Tempest Elites: Hellstorm Energy Mortars
1x Shadow Walker
1x Mature Angel

Journeyman Bot Handler 120pt detachment
Journeyman Bot Handler with Command Booster, Maglock Dominator Pistol & Aux Grenade Launcher
5 Contractor Engineers with 2x aux grenade launcher
Another 5 Contractors with 2x grenade launcher
4 Spider Drones with Cutter machine guns and Apprentice Bot Handler
1 Scarecrow with Maglock Railrifle and Clingfire Sprayer
1 Scarecrow with Maglock Railrifle and Chemtek Sprayer
5 Firefly Drones
Hunter with Maglock Chaingun & Flakk Cannon, 2x Strike Missiles

As you can see I'm also going for the larger units, but am drawn to the Hellstorms more than the Ravagers. We'll see!

I'm curious to see how your lists play out. Your Karist list isn't that different than mine, but you're lacking that Ravager goodness that I like.

I went a bit heavier on the 'bots for my Epirians, but that was personal preference. I wanted to try out Flakk Gun-armed Spider Drones to see how well they could hold a position, but with the missions we played that never really came up.

One thing to note/correct is that Shadow Walkers automatically have the Dodge (1) ability because they are a Mobile unit (all Mobile units always have Dodge 1), so when they're on the move (as they are when being fired at by defensive fire), that's improved to Dodge (2).

So against a depleted/small enemy unit, they can often survive a round of standard defensive fire, and if they charge from the target's rear arc, then they will almost certainly survive any defensive fire nearly unscathed (except for gaining a few STs).

In general, I feel that Shadow Walkers are probably the biggest advantage that Karists have over Epirians, and I always try to squeeze at least two into my force. Mainly their ability to snatch objectives (even on the same turn they arrive back on the table as a reinforcement) is simply invaluable.

Beyond that, they do certainly have combat utility, but you just have to pick your spots carefully. They can certainly take on/take out Scarecrows by themselves with CQ fighting, and just looking for units that are sufficiently damaged or suppressed (to finish them off) works as well. You do, however, typically have to plan for this one turn in advance, by teleporting near your target so that you can charge them in the next turn. The gold standard location where you're looking to teleport to is one where your Shadow Walker is outside of 6" of the enemy (which it has to be per the Teleport rule) but still within 12" so that the Shadow Walker's Fearsome (1) abilty affects the target. Giving up the Shadow Walker's round of wild firing after teleporting is totally worth it if you can find a spot where he is out of line of sight of the target he wants to charge next turn (so they can't fire at him in the meantime).

Often the threat of the Shadow Walker can be more effective than his actual combat prowess. Don't be afraid to just teleport them behind an enemy unit if you can find a spot to put them out of line of sight (but still within 12" of the enemy), and you can just leave them there for several turns and have their Fearsome ability affecting the enemy. Then when a nearby enemy unit has been whittled down by other units, the Shadow Walker can be used to finish them off (or just teleport him away if he's needed more elsewhere).

 yakface wrote:

One thing to note/correct is that Shadow Walkers automatically have the Dodge (1) ability because they are a Mobile unit (all Mobile units always have Dodge 1), so when they're on the move (as they are when being fired at by defensive fire), that's improved to Dodge (2).

Drat! Of course. He has nothing to fear then

Some interesting insight there

Yakface, thank you! The Dodge ability was something that I'd forgotten, and it does add quite a bit to the survivability of the unit. Same with Firefly Drones as well.

I think I've also got it in my head that STs are an immediate problem for the unit, when they don't affect the rest of that unit's action phase. For example, when picking up STs from Defensive Fire, they won't affect the charging unit (or whatever) until their next activation (whether it be next turn, or firing Defensive Fire of their own).

I'll also have to try playing with two Shadow Walkers. For whatever reason I prefer more troops over having the Mature Angels on the board (for personal aesthetics), so I'll give that a shot.

I posted above that a Shadow Walker fires wildly after teleporting, but when I wrote that I was forgetting that Mobile units (which the Shadow Walker is) ignore the normal penalty for firing wildly during a Dash action (which is how a teleport occurs).

So while my overall point still stands (it is often worth giving up a round of the Shadow Walker's shooting the turn that it teleports to put them in a good, safe spot), when you do so you are giving up standard shooting, not wild fire.

Yep, that's right. I can forget my own rules too!

I'm actually going to go through each unit and write up all the rules and interactions for myself, just to remember this!

Dunno if this helps any, but I wrote up this summary of the unit types and designator rules (to supplement the ability summary sheets):

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Model types
Infantry
No special rules.

Behemoth
Behemoths have the following abilities:
· Overrun (exclusive)
Can move through (overrun) standard-sized enemy units. Enemy units can fire defensively at a unit that overruns them at their choice of AV.

· Fearless (squad)
The unit ignores psych STs, is never shell-shocked, pinned, or required to retreat or flee the battle. It does not take suppressive fire discipline checks or CQ discipline checks. When performing a Shaken action, the unit must either make a single move or remain stationary and fire a single round of wild shooting. Upon completing a Dig-in or Shaken action, shake-off the extra D3 STs as though it were pinned. Does not apply if squad leader is not fearless.

· Heavy Gunner
Ignore the Heavy ability, except when CQ fighting.

· Kill Mission
This unit cannot control mission objective markers, but can still contest them.

· Massive Strength
If a model’s primary CQ weapon is a melee weapon: add +1 DAM, and its PEN value is double the model’s MAS. Ignore the Heavy ability during CQ fighting.


As large models, they follow these rules:

· Directional movement
Non-fixed and non-dynamic movement can only be forward or reverse. A number of pivots up to 90° is allowed, limited to half the model’s EVS. Moving in reverse, MV is halved and only 1 pivot is allowed. End-of-move pivot for required facing is always allowed.

· Large models and terrain
o Large models are never in cover;
o standard-sized models never count as partially obscuring a large model;
o Terrain features only partially obscure a large model if they obscure at least 50% of its body;
o Large models only count as being partially obscured for being within an area terrain feature if their entire base is within it and it’s not low area terrain.

· Large model shooting
Large models can fire a number of weapons up to their FOR characteristic (see p. 65 for multiple weapons in CQ).

· Explode
When a large model becomes a casualty, it explodes on a 5+. This causes a special attack emanating from the base of the model using the model’s MAS vs. the targets’ EVS.
[insert explosion profile here]


Designators
Character
Characters can use the Join Unit free action if they’ve not yet been activated:

Join a unit within 3” when it is activated, before its discipline check; move the character within 3” of as many models in the unit as possible, facing the same direction (fixed move). Only keep the highest number of STs, and then add any STs gained by the character’s move. A character may not join other characters or model with the Solo designator.

Leave a unit by making an activation check for the unit: if it’s successful, the character counts as having been activated alone and acts independently of the unit. The unit can activate later.

Hover
Model can move dynamically. This is special movement with these rules:

· may utilize open ground bonus movement when taking cover;

· may pass through intervening models and terrain;

· can move onto and off of vertical terrain without counting any vertical distance;

· If any model ends a dynamic move touching an obstacle or even partially within area terrain, the unit gains an additional D3 STs upon completing the move.

Human
Humans are organic models. Human behemoths do not explode.

Mobile
If a unit is comprised entirely of mobile models it is a mobile unit and therefore:

· may never choose a Hold & Fire action;

· has the Dodge (1) ability;

· does not fire wild in a Dash action, unless they are on the move or making a hit & run.

Robot
Robots are inorganic models. Robot units can only be joined and ordered by Bot Handlers.

Solo
May not be joined by characters, cannot join other units.
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I'm also working on cleverer rules integration for my Battlescribe files (mostly done and mostly waiting on Battlescribe 2.0 release)

It does help, but I remember better if I write it down!

I got to reading last night, but I was sipping a Pimm's cup (darn you for introducing me to that, Kilkrazy!), so I got sleepy and went to bed.