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So I've seen and heard a lot of people talking about giving heavy thunder hammers to Black Shields in veteran squads. Which would be awesome because who doesn't want to have 5 str 10 attacks on the charge?

However, as the entry for HTHs says "any veteran may replace. . ."

I'm just getting back into the game so my rules are a little rusty, but since Black Shields aren't strictly speaking veterans (they're Black Shields - they have their own stat line) this would exclude them from taking HTHs, yes?

Kalm88 wrote:
So I've seen and heard a lot of people talking about giving heavy thunder hammers to Black Shields in veteran squads. Which would be awesome because who doesn't want to have 5 str 10 attacks on the charge?

However, as the entry for HTHs says "any veteran may replace. . ."

I'm just getting back into the game so my rules are a little rusty, but since Black Shields aren't strictly speaking veterans (they're Black Shields - they have their own stat line) this would exclude them from taking HTHs, yes?

It's a parallel to Space Marine codex and upgrading to an apothecary. GW has ruled NO, you cannot upgrade gear then upgrade to an Apothecary. They also chose their words carefully. They use "any model" and "any veteran" on different lines. I hope they do a FAQ and let him take it, but it appears to be no.

And his special rule says it doubles his attacks, not his attack characteristic(in comparison the Solitaires blitz says Attack characteristic). That should be 6 on the charge(8 with 2 weapons). Unless I missed a clarification on attack doubling in the rulebook.

I figured as much. A little disappointing but oh well! He can still take an ordinary thunder hammer. Thanks for the clarification.

In the rule for Atonement Through Honor "Attacks" is capitalized, which seems to mean that it's referring to his specific characteristic (which would be a proper noun, I guess?) instead of the raw number of attacks he is making that turn, which would necessarily not use a capital letter.

Kalm88 wrote:
I figured as much. A little disappointing but oh well! He can still take an ordinary thunder hammer. Thanks for the clarification.

In the rule for Atonement Through Honor "Attacks" is capitalized, which seems to mean that it's referring to his specific characteristic (which would be a proper noun, I guess?) instead of the raw number of attacks he is making that turn, which would necessarily not use a capital letter.

After looking again, you're right they did capitalize it. They still didn't say characteristic though, which has me wondering why.

We an add it to the FAQ I guess.

"In the Assault phase of the turn in which the Solitaire moves in this manner, its Attack characteristics is increased to 10."

versus

"A unit with this special rule doubles its Attacks in the assault phase..."

You would think they could at least keep things consistent.

 Bulldogging wrote:

Kalm88 wrote:
I figured as much. A little disappointing but oh well! He can still take an ordinary thunder hammer. Thanks for the clarification.

In the rule for Atonement Through Honor "Attacks" is capitalized, which seems to mean that it's referring to his specific characteristic (which would be a proper noun, I guess?) instead of the raw number of attacks he is making that turn, which would necessarily not use a capital letter.

After looking again, you're right they did capitalize it. They still didn't say characteristic though, which has me wondering why.

We an add it to the FAQ I guess.

"In the Assault phase of the turn in which the Solitaire moves in this manner, its Attack characteristics is increased to 10."

versus

"A unit with this special rule doubles its Attacks in the assault phase..."

You would think they could at least keep things consistent.

Consistent rule-writing has never been one of GWs strong points, unfortunately. I agree, it is ambiguous enough to warrant an FAQ.

Kalm88 wrote:
So I've seen and heard a lot of people talking about giving heavy thunder hammers to Black Shields in veteran squads. Which would be awesome because who doesn't want to have 5 str 10 attacks on the charge?

However, as the entry for HTHs says "any veteran may replace. . ."

I'm just getting back into the game so my rules are a little rusty, but since Black Shields aren't strictly speaking veterans (they're Black Shields - they have their own stat line) this would exclude them from taking HTHs, yes?

I'm inclined to agree with the others and go with "no" based on the apothecary FAQ, but it would definitely be worth asking on Facebook along with the ATH attacks question. GW seems to be turning out FAQs pretty quickly, so DW may get one after the Necrons and Daemons get their turn.

Useful to note is the spoilered image:

 Leth wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Leth wrote:
In regards to the swapping of equipment I always go with the interpretation that if there is no stated order of operations then you can do which ever.

If it does not say that you have to upgrade to a blackshield first then you can swap to a thunderhammer and then change to a black shield.

Then for things like terminators where you are required to swap specific gear if you do weapon swaps before hand then you no longer meet the requirements.

So on and so forth.

That's how I thought it was.

The SM FAQ says that we can't do that though.

What do you mean? It specifically says the opposite. You can buy stuff then upgrade.

Spoiler:

It tells us that you can take a wargear upgrade, and then a model type upgrade later.

You may wish to read the comments on that particular FAQ:

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Whoops, we got one wrong there.
For the last question on this page, the answer should be 'No'.

Please refrain from cutting all the arms off your Apothecaries, they need them for their nartheciums.

Q: Is it possible for an Apothecary to carry items from the Special Weapons and/or Melee Weapons lists (e.g. by a Veteran purchasing upgrades, and being subsequently upgraded to an Apothecary)?
A: No

 Ghaz wrote:
You may wish to read the comments on that particular FAQ:

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Whoops, we got one wrong there.
For the last question on this page, the answer should be 'No'.

Please refrain from cutting all the arms off your Apothecaries, they need them for their nartheciums.

Q: Is it possible for an Apothecary to carry items from the Special Weapons and/or Melee Weapons lists (e.g. by a Veteran purchasing upgrades, and being subsequently upgraded to an Apothecary)?
A: No

Yeah sorry for not pointing that out myself. I assumed incorrectly that it was common knowledge they FAQed the FAQ..lol

Well damn.

My Blackshields are gonna need a retcon.

bummer. So just wanting to clarify for my brain here (I apologize for being a bit thick on this one)...


- Any MODEL can take items from the melee weapons, ranged weapons, and/ or special weapons list.

- This indicates that anyone in the squad can choose those options since they are all models

- Only a Veteran may take a Storm Shield, Heavy Weapon, or Heavy Thunder Hammer

- A veteran that is upgraded to a Black Shield is no longer a veteran

- Thus a Black Shield (or a watch sergeant for that matter) cannot take a Storm Shield, Heavy Weapon or Heavy Thunder Hammer

...right?

Sooooo...what....dual lightning claws on him?

Powersword and some sort of pistol?

It annoys me greatly that the BlackSHIELDS don't get access to the storm shield. I was going to give all of mine shield and power lance, ala 300 spartan style.

 HANZERtank wrote:
It annoys me greatly that the BlackSHIELDS don't get access to the storm shield. I was going to give all of mine shield and power lance, ala 300 spartan style.

Do that for a Minotaur. Fancy golden shield and all.

 HANZERtank wrote:
It annoys me greatly that the BlackSHIELDS don't get access to the storm shield. I was going to give all of mine shield and power lance, ala 300 spartan style.

Wait, why can't a Blackshield take a storm shield?

It says "Any Model" for shields. He is a model.

"Any model may replace either his boltgun or close combat weapon with a storm shield....................10 pts/model".

 Bulldogging wrote:

 HANZERtank wrote:
It annoys me greatly that the BlackSHIELDS don't get access to the storm shield. I was going to give all of mine shield and power lance, ala 300 spartan style.

Wait, why can't a Blackshield take a storm shield?

It says "Any Model" for shields. He is a model.

"Any model may replace either his boltgun or close combat weapon with a storm shield....................10 pts/model".

Someone said earlier that they can't take it. If they can that's awesome, and my plan is back on track.

just double checked my digital codex, says "any model" for storm shields, so you're good bruh

BossJakadakk wrote:
just double checked my digital codex, says "any model" for storm shields, so you're good bruh

Yes, Black Shields can have...shields!

I just watched video with duncan rhodes, on warhammer tv, about building your deathwatch army. In the video he builds a black shield with a heavy thunder hammer. I not really arguing the point, i am just pointing it out.

I don't know if the FAQ was changed...but currently under this link: GW Facebook SM Errata Page 2 it reads as if an Apothecary actually CAN carry items from their special weapons list and so on...

So Black Shields with all weapon options?

LiamStormblade wrote:I don't know if the FAQ was changed...but currently under this link: GW Facebook SM Errata Page 2 it reads as if an Apothecary actually CAN carry items from their special weapons list and so on...

So Black Shields with all weapon options?

Bulldogging wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
You may wish to read the comments on that particular FAQ:

Warhammer 40,000 wrote:Whoops, we got one wrong there.
For the last question on this page, the answer should be 'No'.

Please refrain from cutting all the arms off your Apothecaries, they need them for their nartheciums.

Q: Is it possible for an Apothecary to carry items from the Special Weapons and/or Melee Weapons lists (e.g. by a Veteran purchasing upgrades, and being subsequently upgraded to an Apothecary)?
A: No

Yeah sorry for not pointing that out myself. I assumed incorrectly that it was common knowledge they FAQed the FAQ..lol