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Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Or in other words, if there is a prize why not bring the best?
Ok, so some context. Despite me not being that big intothe tournament scene and being mediocre at best, I have a reputation as a hardcore tournament player at my FLGS.
So, every month is a leaque, wherethe winner can get 50$ in cash if he/she wins. I have finally gotten an uninteruppted month of being able to go. So I went in with what I could fit at 1250, riptide wing and a stormsurge. My opponents than give me ALL the gak and start saying stuff. Stuff like "We are casual here, we play for fluff not to win" and the usual stuff. I then tell them "It is a game, with a winner and a loser, why should I not bring my best? You are welcome to bring your best aswell" and they then say they cant afford money to win and so forth.
So I ask, why should I not bring my best to this event if I there is money involved?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/05 04:37:23


5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in cn
Fresh-Faced New User





I would guess that for them, the fun of a casual league is worth more then the money.

Seems pretty straightforward to me. When I was at university we used to play board games for small amounts of money. We were all poor students though, so things used to get quite competitive as that small amount of money was a big deal for us.

These days occasionally I play board games for money with my now-adult friends, and the money changes nothing in the way we play. Winning $50-100 dollars at uni was huge.. these days its just the cherry on the cake of a good night of fun with friends. No one is going home missing the $5 they put in the pot, or getting upset because they didn't win, and we will still be silly and mess about even though there is money on the line.

So for me you just need to way up how much value each of the benefits have for you:

Is the money worth more then all of your collective fun?
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

If it's an event with a prize, it's competitive. If it's competitive, play to win. Period.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in us
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





 Jimsolo wrote:
If it's an event with a prize, it's competitive. If it's competitive, play to win. Period.

I'd counter with "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
We all throw $10 in the pot for our golf game. Doesn't mean getting Tiger Woods as my partner is the right choice.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Jimsolo wrote:
If it's an event with a prize, it's competitive. If it's competitive, play to win. Period.


This. If you don't want people to bring competitive lists and play competitively then don't have a cash prize. And make explicit rules for list building, don't just whine about how "we play for fun".

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

If it's a balanced game system, like X-Wing, I'm cool with it. If it's something like 40k, where balance is a joke, then I tend to embrace the "casual" stance.

Although to be honest the moment the put up prize support they invited someone coming in and cleaning house.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






If there are ten people in the league and the other nine are bringing casual lists, being that one guy who MUST bring the best stuff is a low move. Stomping on puppies isn't a very fun game for the puppy and telling the puppy to grow big teeth so it can bite back doesn't change that. I get their annoyance.

It IS on the TO to set up some rules, or it's on the community to have a gentleman's agreement as to what is being brought though. If you're not the one and only person who isn't going with the flow, then they need to look at how they do this league instead. 40k is pay to win and if they can't or won't pay then they have to take the initiative to make a casual league clearly defined. You didn't break any rules of the game.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

A cash prize was advertised and they're surprised that someone turned up and try their very best to claim it?

Sour grapes always makes a bitter whine...


Also, recommend that you change your thread title to: Cash prize: Why not bring your best or something similar?
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





South Wales

I'm not certain how the validation of strangers on the internet will measure up to the people you actually play against.

Prestor Jon wrote:
Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

In general, if there is a prize, I expect the nasty stuff to come out. That’s why I generally avoid tournaments. And not just 40k, but back in my CCG days as well. Brings out the worst in people, myself included.

It sounds like the TO should change the name to include “friendly” or “casual”. That way there would be a little more guideline for the lists. If not actual restrictions.

I will echo the sentiment that if you are the odd man out, you might might to re-evalutate your playstyle. You might not be technically in the wrong, but you are going against the social grain, and that has consequences.

   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

In general it's bad form to go to what you know will be a casual thing, and try to steamroll people. While normally you can't be faulted since by offering a prize it IS competitive by nature, if everyone else is still going to play casual, then you ARE the jerk by going with a powerlist to try and win it just because "hey it's $50".

You should temper your style to match the people playing with you; if it's a tournament where you can expect other competitive-minded players bringing out "the big guns" then by all means, go all out. But if you know it's going to be a casual event, prize or not, then I think it's a pretty donkey-cave move to go with the intent of crushing everybody because you know they'll play casual and you don't. Maybe come up with a list that has some strong elements (e.g. ONE Riptide or Stormsurge) and then do something that's powerful without being overt? Like, I'm not Tau expert but like, maybe an al lmechanized list (what used to be called "Fish of Fury") with a Riptide as heavy support could still be strong (let's assume it is for this discussion, since I don't know) but won't get the rolling eyes and cries of cheese like a bunch of Riptides will. You can still win the event but not just dominate a bunch of casuals.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/05 20:52:41


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
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-

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/15 02:08:00


Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-) 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Or in other words, if there is a prize why not bring the best?
Ok, so some context. Despite me not being that big intothe tournament scene and being mediocre at best, I have a reputation as a hardcore tournament player at my FLGS.
So, every month is a leaque, wherethe winner can get 50$ in cash if he/she wins. I have finally gotten an uninteruppted month of being able to go. So I went in with what I could fit at 1250, riptide wing and a stormsurge. My opponents than give me ALL the gak and start saying stuff. Stuff like "We are casual here, we play for fluff not to win" and the usual stuff. I then tell them "It is a game, with a winner and a loser, why should I not bring my best? You are welcome to bring your best aswell" and they then say they cant afford money to win and so forth.
So I ask, why should I not bring my best to this event if I there is money involved?

Bringing your best isn't the same as bringing a Riptide Wing and a Stormsurge at 1250.
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




I'm assuming you've only gone once so far, it kind of sounds like that from the OP. So it's not like you were actively a jerk or anything, you just assumed (as I would) that since there's money involved, people would actually be competing. Apparently that's not the case, and like Nevelon said, if you keep bringing firepower that they all have a silent rule against, there will likely be (social) consequences.

This is definitely an awkward situation, though. I have the same mindset as you, where I'm asking "Why are they not wanting to compete if there's an actual prize?" On the other hand, it really doesn't matter why, it just matters that that's the mindset they have.

As to your question, there is literally no reason you shouldn't bring your best if the intent is to win money, imo. They don't really have the right to tell you what to bring when there's literally money on the line. The awkward part is they're just going to think of you as the powergamer coming to clean house EVERY time you show up, because if they're actually giving you gak to your face, they're definitely complaining behind your back with each other as well. That kind of makes me think that would be a crowd I wouldn't want to be involved with anyway, depending on how they actually talked to you (but you said they were giving you gak, so I'm going with the assumption that they had an attitude about it).

I understand they may not be able to afford all these powerhouse things, but if it's basically just a gentlemen's agreement that they're not running powerful stuff, they can't really fault someone who just comes in and is able to participate for the first time bringing a list to win. It's literally 100% their fault that their lists are what they are, fluff preference or not.

There are ways to enforce a casual style of play, regardless of prize support, and the place opted out of them, so again I'm not sure where the fault becomes yours on day 1 when you take a list to win some money.

Now what sucks is there's going to be this social pressure to be more casual, or else you will probably have a harder time getting games outside of the league later on. People don't realize all the time that what I may bring to compete for money prizes is not what I bring for fun casual games/events.

So to kind of agree with what Wayniac said (how did you get your name changed, btw?), it comes down to the long-term. Do you want to be the powergamer who destroys everyone's casual list for 50 bucks? To go back to an earlier point, though, if they were legit being dicks about it (you'd have to tell me), I'd just do it if I had options outside this store (because feth these dudes talking gak to me for coming to actually win). If they were more along the lines of "Hey man, I know it's for money but we still play casual/fluffy," then I'd personally probably scale back a bit, just make a list that isn't completely a stompfest but is still competitive and hard for them to beat. Maybe bring a goof-off list once or twice if you get far enough ahead on points or however they measure success in the league.

Give in to social pressure, or get dat moolah. I usually decide things like this based on others' attitudes towards me.

Objectively, there is no reason you shouldn't bring your best to win. Subjectively, there's plenty going on here.
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






PourSpelur wrote:
 Jimsolo wrote:
If it's an event with a prize, it's competitive. If it's competitive, play to win. Period.

I'd counter with "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
We all throw $10 in the pot for our golf game. Doesn't mean getting Tiger Woods as my partner is the right choice.


Pretty much this, but you wouldn't know until you play there. There's no reason to not bring your A game if you don't know what to expect. But once you know they don't do that kind of thing in the store, you've got a choice. Bringing that kind of list is likely going to earn you the TFG title at the store. If that doesn't bother you, and you want that $50, then keep going. If it does bother you and you want to cultivate a decent social standing in the store, tone it down and play to their level.

No one can tell you how to play unless they specifically enforce house rules for this sort of thing. But as already said, there can be social consequences in the store. If that bothers you or not is up to you.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





South Wales

From OP it sounds like he's there regularly, but this was the first time he was able to be in the league full time.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/05 22:26:14


Prestor Jon wrote:
Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Prowler





Portland, OR

As a TO for a different game, I can say that trying to balance competitive and casual events that was a draw to both groups of players is hard. The main point of casual events is to draw in an audience, develop, cultivate and grow an existing group. They are usually designed to give some rewards, but not a lot compared to a competitive event which tends to have a bigger prize. Casual players like to feel accomplished and win prizes too.

I tend to personally challenge players in the casual by bringing their best. That doesn't necessarily mean a net-list or the current hot combination, but trying to utilize what they have to their best ability. Since I usually had more options than the average casual player, I would bring something new. When you win based on skill instead of imbalance it is a better win and you have a better opportunity to help grow your competitive pool by teaching players on how they can improve. Players tend to not listen, even if the observations are correct, when faced against what they feel is the "best net-list" at the time.

Even if you are a mediocre player, if you bring a stronger force that is favored because of imbalance and/or it counters the others lists the best... then you will get a reputation as a hardcore gamer from the casual gamers, whether you are one or not.

Casual tournament, yes they exist even with prizes, we run beginner tournaments with a lower prize pool at GenCon for some other games. The purpose is to grow and improve the community as a whole. If you don't care about improving the overall skill of the community, having some social fun... then yes you are hardcore gamer, again from their perspective. At that point you are only thinking about the prize and winning, while the prize is nice, it isn't the main purpose for the group. Although you are welcome to want to bring the best, you would be going against the social norm for the group.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





South Florida

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a club, league, or tournament, to regulate the kinds of play styles that group of players enjoys. Just because the event is competitive, doesn't mean that no holds-barred is automatically the only way to play. Steroids are banned from dozens of sports. Types of bats, balls, etc, are regulated. Just because money is involved doesn't mean strikes to the groin are fair-play. It's perfectly reasonable to want a certain type of play experience - and its also okay for you to disagree. Hopefully you'll be able to compromise with your group.

   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

BossJakadakk wrote:
I'm assuming you've only gone once so far, it kind of sounds like that from the OP. So it's not like you were actively a jerk or anything, you just assumed (as I would) that since there's money involved, people would actually be competing. Apparently that's not the case, and like Nevelon said, if you keep bringing firepower that they all have a silent rule against, there will likely be (social) consequences.

This is definitely an awkward situation, though. I have the same mindset as you, where I'm asking "Why are they not wanting to compete if there's an actual prize?" On the other hand, it really doesn't matter why, it just matters that that's the mindset they have.

As to your question, there is literally no reason you shouldn't bring your best if the intent is to win money, imo. They don't really have the right to tell you what to bring when there's literally money on the line. The awkward part is they're just going to think of you as the powergamer coming to clean house EVERY time you show up, because if they're actually giving you gak to your face, they're definitely complaining behind your back with each other as well. That kind of makes me think that would be a crowd I wouldn't want to be involved with anyway, depending on how they actually talked to you (but you said they were giving you gak, so I'm going with the assumption that they had an attitude about it).

I understand they may not be able to afford all these powerhouse things, but if it's basically just a gentlemen's agreement that they're not running powerful stuff, they can't really fault someone who just comes in and is able to participate for the first time bringing a list to win. It's literally 100% their fault that their lists are what they are, fluff preference or not.

There are ways to enforce a casual style of play, regardless of prize support, and the place opted out of them, so again I'm not sure where the fault becomes yours on day 1 when you take a list to win some money.

Now what sucks is there's going to be this social pressure to be more casual, or else you will probably have a harder time getting games outside of the league later on. People don't realize all the time that what I may bring to compete for money prizes is not what I bring for fun casual games/events.

So to kind of agree with what Wayniac said (how did you get your name changed, btw?), it comes down to the long-term. Do you want to be the powergamer who destroys everyone's casual list for 50 bucks? To go back to an earlier point, though, if they were legit being dicks about it (you'd have to tell me), I'd just do it if I had options outside this store (because feth these dudes talking gak to me for coming to actually win). If they were more along the lines of "Hey man, I know it's for money but we still play casual/fluffy," then I'd personally probably scale back a bit, just make a list that isn't completely a stompfest but is still competitive and hard for them to beat. Maybe bring a goof-off list once or twice if you get far enough ahead on points or however they measure success in the league.

Give in to social pressure, or get dat moolah. I usually decide things like this based on others' attitudes towards me.

Objectively, there is no reason you shouldn't bring your best to win. Subjectively, there's plenty going on here.


OT: Moderator can change your name, but it's a one-time thing. I use this name on like every other forum so switched for consistency.

Back on topic: I think there's sort of a weird gray area where people can learn from a powergamer, but they have to want to. Trying to "teach" a group of casual players is going to get you ostracized for impeding everyone else's fun. From the OP's post it sounds like he might be a regular but couldn't often play in events, but I still feel that if you know you're going into a league in a shop of mostly casual people, and you're the competitive type of gamer, it's on you to tone your list down a bit so you aren't doing anything that is really seen as bringing a crushing list to a regular game. That's not say you should basically play stupid, but like I said above try to play strong lists without reaching for things you know will illicit cries of "cheese". I also find if you're a competitive player in a casual meta, you can try to be more helpful and give people advice (not always "buy X because it's more powerful") to show that you're more than just trying to crush people.

Although, let's not beat around the bush here: This kind of problem basically only exists in Warhammer or with gamers who were originally weaned on Warhammer (I've seen similar attitudes amongst ex-GW players who gravitated to Warmachine)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/10/05 23:08:54


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Prowler





Portland, OR

Wayniac wrote:
Although, let's not beat around the bush here: This kind of problem basically only exists in Warhammer or with gamers who were originally weaned on Warhammer (I've seen similar attitudes amongst ex-GW players who gravitated to Warmachine)
It doesn't exist with just Warhammer, it exists with quite a few games although more commonly with TCGs like MtG. There comes a point that where the latest net-list tends to be the most popular combination for various reasons. Those that have a larger amount of income are able to easily purchase and switch, while other players are still building or have access to a smaller pool of choices. A good portion of time those choices are what limits a casual player to a venue preventing them from successfully being in a competitive venue.

In MtG it happens quite a bit. It does come down to skill, but there are two different types of skills involved. There is the deck building or list, being able to have access to more potent combinations. Then there is actually understanding when to play and do what when, so the actual skill of applying what you have.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Dark Severance wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Although, let's not beat around the bush here: This kind of problem basically only exists in Warhammer or with gamers who were originally weaned on Warhammer (I've seen similar attitudes amongst ex-GW players who gravitated to Warmachine)
It doesn't exist with just Warhammer, it exists with quite a few games although more commonly with TCGs like MtG. There comes a point that where the latest net-list tends to be the most popular combination for various reasons. Those that have a larger amount of income are able to easily purchase and switch, while other players are still building or have access to a smaller pool of choices. A good portion of time those choices are what limits a casual player to a venue preventing them from successfully being in a competitive venue.

In MtG it happens quite a bit. It does come down to skill, but there are two different types of skills involved. There is the deck building or list, being able to have access to more potent combinations. Then there is actually understanding when to play and do what when, so the actual skill of applying what you have.


I can't speak to MTG but I know in Warmachine I typically didn't see this "Oh no you brought a power list, you suck!" kind of approach; people usually relished being able to face a strong list because their opponent wasn't the kind of TFG who would gloat about it later, if they really stomped them they'd likely give points on how to counter it or like certain things their opponent could have done better. I only saw that idea of "X is too powerful, don't use it" in Warhammer and among the people who came from GW and went to Warmachine, but didn't go because it was a better overall game with a competitive focus, just because they didn't like GW and wanted something else.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

I think situations like this are a little complex to be boiled down to a simple forum debate. I know I'd be inclined to different courses of action depending on how my opponents/the league talked to me about my list. If it was whiny and insulting, I'd be less inclined to change my list, but if it was a mature, pulled aside, discussion in private with another opponent, I'd likely compromise. Plus, how well I know them, how often I game there, so on and so forth, would impact how I feel about their complaints about my list.

That said, generally speaking, if there's money on the line, I'm probably not bringing a poorly put together army. I literally don't have the models to make a super competitive force anyways, but I'd be bringing the best I could do with my model selection using a better codex variant to make some more mileage. Though, if I was a long time member of such a group, I feel as though we'd all have worked out the generally agreed upon standards of play, so it likely wouldn't be an issue.

Social situations are complex, but unless you have other gaming groups to join with if this one falls through, I'd probably lean towards not making everyone dislike you if you still want to game and they're otherwise good gamers to be around.

If only the game was better and these petty arguments would be a non-issue.

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 MrDwhitey wrote:
From OP it sounds like he's there regularly, but this was the first time he was able to be in the league full time.

Pretty much. I usually to hang out there and my best friend is the TO and has the mindset "If you paid money for a model, bring it, I dont care"

But too the idea that they cant afford to bring hard lists. Its a lie, my opponent has several armies, he just doesnt stay to them long. One has parents who Im sure are oil tycoons, but switchs armies more often than im sure he switches underwear.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




Oil tycoons lol, it sure seems like it with some people eh?

@Wayniac: Yeah I agree on the "there's stuff to learn from hard lists" part, I kind of was feeling that point and never really said it. But yeah there's a lot to be said for looking a super strong army in the face and deciding this is going to be a learning experience - and not everyone wants to do that.

I personally wrestle with the casual nature of a lot of this still. I've been a powergamer for so long, then I start 40k and I'm like "Okay, I want to get actually good at this game, but I don't want to take things that are bad just because they fit the narrative." I'm not the WAAC type of person, I just look for strong combos and units, and want to have a real competition. So when money is involved, I expect the hard lists, and I expect to lose because of inexperience but to use that to get better. For my LGS narrative campaign, I bring whatever and have a lot of fun with those guys.

But yeah, even if they *can* bring hard lists, if that's just not what they do for this league, then we're right back to the social pressure/consequences, sadly.

On the other hand, if you're getting gak for something the TO explicitly says is okay, then the TO may need to have a word with the other players about politeness.
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 Kanluwen wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Or in other words, if there is a prize why not bring the best?
Ok, so some context. Despite me not being that big intothe tournament scene and being mediocre at best, I have a reputation as a hardcore tournament player at my FLGS.
So, every month is a leaque, wherethe winner can get 50$ in cash if he/she wins. I have finally gotten an uninteruppted month of being able to go. So I went in with what I could fit at 1250, riptide wing and a stormsurge. My opponents than give me ALL the gak and start saying stuff. Stuff like "We are casual here, we play for fluff not to win" and the usual stuff. I then tell them "It is a game, with a winner and a loser, why should I not bring my best? You are welcome to bring your best aswell" and they then say they cant afford money to win and so forth.
So I ask, why should I not bring my best to this event if I there is money involved?

Bringing your best isn't the same as bringing a Riptide Wing and a Stormsurge at 1250.

how is it not? I could fit those in the list, so i brought my best 1250 is more than enough.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Rust belt

I hope your claiming that $50 on your taxes

On a serious note $50 isn't worth it to me to be red flagged at a local group. Money can bring out the worst in people and just don't need drama in my life. If it's not an charity event I just avoid them all together.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wayniac wrote:

I can't speak to MTG but I know in Warmachine I typically didn't see this "Oh no you brought a power list, you suck!" kind of approach; people usually relished being able to face a strong list because their opponent wasn't the kind of TFG who would gloat about it later, if they really stomped them they'd likely give points on how to counter it or like certain things their opponent could have done better. I only saw that idea of "X is too powerful, don't use it" in Warhammer and among the people who came from GW and went to Warmachine, but didn't go because it was a better overall game with a competitive focus, just because they didn't like GW and wanted something else.


It exists in warmachine as well, but it's expression is different-the term is 'negative play experience'. Warmachine is generally a game of empowerment - generally speaking, if something is bothering you, you can go out and kill it in turn. Problem solved.

However, there are (or Rather, were! Mk2!) lists that no one likes to see play, and would be generally regarded as a 'douche move' on the part of the person playing them. Haley 2 and deneghra 2 in mk2 spring immediately to mind. Wormwood in mk3. A lot of the time, especially against the former, you needed very specific lists, coupled with a lot of luck to have even a small chance. Denny 2/body and soul was an abomination in mk2. Haley2 was probsbly mk2s most hated match up. And you always had to count haley2 as one of pretty much every cygnar players 2-casters. Often, if they'd go first, they had the scenario victory sown up by proxy, and you had a huge uphill battle to force the game back on anything even remotely close to your terms. There were means and ways to deal with them, but generally speaking it was a huge amount of hassle, and for the most part, rightly regarded as one of the most negative and unappealing aspects of the game.

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

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Made in fi
Calculating Commissar







Wayniac wrote:
 Dark Severance wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Although, let's not beat around the bush here: This kind of problem basically only exists in Warhammer or with gamers who were originally weaned on Warhammer (I've seen similar attitudes amongst ex-GW players who gravitated to Warmachine)
It doesn't exist with just Warhammer, it exists with quite a few games although more commonly with TCGs like MtG. There comes a point that where the latest net-list tends to be the most popular combination for various reasons. Those that have a larger amount of income are able to easily purchase and switch, while other players are still building or have access to a smaller pool of choices. A good portion of time those choices are what limits a casual player to a venue preventing them from successfully being in a competitive venue.

In MtG it happens quite a bit. It does come down to skill, but there are two different types of skills involved. There is the deck building or list, being able to have access to more potent combinations. Then there is actually understanding when to play and do what when, so the actual skill of applying what you have.


I can't speak to MTG but I know in Warmachine I typically didn't see this "Oh no you brought a power list, you suck!" kind of approach; people usually relished being able to face a strong list because their opponent wasn't the kind of TFG who would gloat about it later, if they really stomped them they'd likely give points on how to counter it or like certain things their opponent could have done better. I only saw that idea of "X is too powerful, don't use it" in Warhammer and among the people who came from GW and went to Warmachine, but didn't go because it was a better overall game with a competitive focus, just because they didn't like GW and wanted something else.


In MTG, the most obvious point of comparison is the Commander format, which operates under a social contract in most playgroups. It's highly variable multiplayer format where people usually build quirky and thematic decks, and prefer it that way, but if you set out to break it, you can also play highly predictable fast combo decks armed with some of the most degenerate combo engines the game has to offer. These two worlds seldom intersect, because players of one don't provide meaningful gameplay experience to the other (it'd be like playing solitaire using some of those "winning" decks, you'd win almost every single game with next to no interaction between people). This format's seldom played competitively, partially for practical considerations (game length is highly unpredictable) and partially because it'd result in a miserable experience to most people who play the format.

The parallels to casual 40k are obvious enough for me not to need to belabor the point, I trust.

The supply does not get to make the demands. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade





 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:

Bringing your best isn't the same as bringing a Riptide Wing and a Stormsurge at 1250.

how is it not? I could fit those in the list, so i brought my best 1250 is more than enough.


I think what he' saying isn't that. You did, you brought 'Your Best', but it far outstripped what the little league was prepared for. You could say you brought a gun to a knife fight?

"Bring your Biggest and Best Knife for the knife fight man."
"Sure, I've got a 12-gauge that'll clean up nicely"


Something like that I suppose.

PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





New Hampshire, USA

 Carnikang wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:

Bringing your best isn't the same as bringing a Riptide Wing and a Stormsurge at 1250.

how is it not? I could fit those in the list, so i brought my best 1250 is more than enough.


I think what he' saying isn't that. You did, you brought 'Your Best', but it far outstripped what the little league was prepared for. You could say you brought a gun to a knife fight?

"Bring your Biggest and Best Knife for the knife fight man."
"Sure, I've got a 12-gauge that'll clean up nicely"


Something like that I suppose.


More like "Fight at high noon! Bring weapons! Last man standing gets $50!" So he brought a gun and a box of ammo. Everyone else showed up with bats and knives and is complaining that they couldn't afford guns.

Khorne Daemons 4000+pts
 
   
 
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