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2016/11/03 14:57:34
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So I am not a competitive player, but I have been running into some issues while fighting Necrons. Normally I just spend some time and think about how or what went wrong and simply try to improve my next game, but I have fought five battles now against Necrons and even the counters I setup aren't cutting it. My opponent is (obviously) using Decurion and canepek harvest. I usually play LSM or Tyranids and I cant find a good counter with either. In particular to the Canepek harvest. His decurion, I just range them. I throw crapptons of heavy bolters or rending claws and I can kill most or make them run, even with their 4+ Reanimation and rerolls of 1. But what I can't seem to kill and keep getting wrecked by is his death star unit of Canepek. He takes 6 wraiths with whips (duh) and usually about 6-9 scarabs and takes a stock spyder. I pump plasma, S8-9 weapons; volleys of Laz cannons and krak missiles and they shrug it off. When he does fail his invul, which has actually been more often than not, his 4+ and rerolls of 1 from the harvest make them nigh invincible. Then throw on the 4+ and rerolls of 1 onto his scarabs and the damn things won't die, even to focus fire blast templets.
My Tyranids have performed even worse. Even when taking 3 carnfixes (melee +toxin sack) were killed by second round of combat. Even when I threw in hormogaunts with toxin sacs, with warriors with boneswords (trying to get instant death) he passes most saves, and never fails his 4+RP and rerolls of 1s. No joke, in the five games I've played, I have killed one of his wraiths. In total. So I am curious to see/hear what you guys do to counter this kind of death star.
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8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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2016/11/03 15:05:41
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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I'm sick, just woke up, and haven't thought about this in awhile....but, one doesn't get FnP rolls against instant death wounds, correct?
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2016/11/03 15:05:45
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Either ignore it (due to speed/maneuverability) or take out the Spyder first. Once it's dead, no RP for Wraiths.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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2016/11/03 15:06:21
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Well, canoptek harvest + Decurion is difficult for anyone to deal with, to be frank.
(Quick thought - LSM? Some kind of space marine? I'm drawing a blank).
Anyways, back on topic, Decurion is difficult to deal with, no two ways about it.
One thought is that wraiths, in my experience, are generally don't really do a ton of damage, especially to something like massed hormagaunts. They're not a difficult unit to tarpit with a bunch of wounds, but I'm not surprised that things like carinifexes got beat.
But the biggest weakness of the wraiths is the spyder. The only way they can get RP is if they are within 12" of their spyder. If you can kill it, they don't get any more RP. And that formation is only allowed to take a single spyder, which is just a T6 3W MC, which admittedly has its own 4+ RP.
So, if you can target and kill the spyder, with say devastator missle launchers, the wraiths become easier to deal with. So, toss all those plasma, missle, and las you mentioned into the spyder first.
Also, they only get to reroll RP rolls of 1 if within 12" of their overlord, as I recall. Automatically Appended Next Post: Voidwraith wrote:I'm sick, just woke up, and haven't thought about this in awhile....but, one doesn't get FnP rolls against instant death wounds, correct?
FnP, no, but RP simply has a -1 modifier from instant death attacks. Because necrons are fair and balanced.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 15:07:06
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. |
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2016/11/03 15:08:14
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Low rate of fire weapons are largely useless in 7th ed. You need to spam mass wounds if you want to actually kill necrons. I'd stop using krak missiles and lascannons for starters.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 15:08:58
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2016/11/03 15:14:01
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Voidwraith wrote:I'm sick, just woke up, and haven't thought about this in awhile....but, one doesn't get FnP rolls against instant death wounds, correct?
Correct, however, RP is allowed (albeit at a -1 penalty).
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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2016/11/03 15:34:34
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Ute nation
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Tsol wrote:So I am not a competitive player, but I have been running into some issues while fighting Necrons. Normally I just spend some time and think about how or what went wrong and simply try to improve my next game, but I have fought five battles now against Necrons and even the counters I setup aren't cutting it. My opponent is (obviously) using Decurion and canepek harvest. I usually play LSM or Tyranids and I cant find a good counter with either. In particular to the Canepek harvest. His decurion, I just range them. I throw crapptons of heavy bolters or rending claws and I can kill most or make them run, even with their 4+ Reanimation and rerolls of 1. But what I can't seem to kill and keep getting wrecked by is his death star unit of Canepek. He takes 6 wraiths with whips (duh) and usually about 6-9 scarabs and takes a stock spyder. I pump plasma, S8-9 weapons; volleys of Laz cannons and krak missiles and they shrug it off. When he does fail his invul, which has actually been more often than not, his 4+ and rerolls of 1 from the harvest make them nigh invincible. Then throw on the 4+ and rerolls of 1 onto his scarabs and the damn things won't die, even to focus fire blast templets.
My Tyranids have performed even worse. Even when taking 3 carnfixes (melee +toxin sack) were killed by second round of combat. Even when I threw in hormogaunts with toxin sacs, with warriors with boneswords (trying to get instant death) he passes most saves, and never fails his 4+ RP and rerolls of 1s. No joke, in the five games I've played, I have killed one of his wraiths. In total. So I am curious to see/hear what you guys do to counter this kind of death star.
Instant death brings the save from 4+ to 5+, and only the reclamation legion (warriors, immortals, Tomb Blades, and lychguard) get to reroll the ones on repair protocols. Scarabs are T3 so just about any of your MCs should be able to one shot a base per hit. The key to dealing with the harvest is kill the spyder, since that will let you get rid of repair protocols.The other thing is necrons generally don't care about the quality of the shots, their saves work pretty much whatever they get shot with, and instead you need to bring quantity of shots. It's just like fighting terminators, they have a great save, but probability says they can't make it forever. Also you are not going to table them, instead you must play to the objectives, he doesn't have a single obsec unit, so a gladius will run rampant over him in a maelstrom with 6+ obsec units. As for tyranids, hope to get lucky unfortunately, the nids are one of the weakest codices and the Necrons one of the strongest, to win you are going to have to outplay him to a large degree, and get at least a little lucky.
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Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon. |
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2016/11/03 16:04:41
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Regarding Space Marines, Sternguard are probably your most efficient choice. They got the AP4 round for Warriors and Flayed Ones, Poison 2+ for Wraiths and Lychguard with Shields, the AP3 for Immortals and regular Lychguard and Praetorians, and the ignoring cover for Scarabs.
The only issue is that you can't deploy them well. Inside a Rhino they're getting off two guns, and that'll be eventually destroyed, but it has a shield. With the Pod, you get them into rapid fire range and they can easily earn half their points back right there, but if it fails everyone has Relentless to shoot and charge you.
With Codex: Flyrant, just choose a different thorax template. One of them is Fleshbane and the other is Shred/Rending, correct?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 16:05:31
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2016/11/03 16:32:47
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Voidwraith wrote:I'm sick, just woke up, and haven't thought about this in awhile....but, one doesn't get FnP rolls against instant death wounds, correct?
Normally, yes, but RP is not FnP. Its FnP on steroids, and as such Instant Death will only inflict a -1 modifier to the roll.
Yes, it is stupid. The old version was better. And by better I meant an actual distinct rule with a notable weakness, and not existing rule +1
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 16:33:21
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2016/11/03 17:25:08
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I've seen a group of 3 wraiths lose a fight against a blob of gardsmen.. They had no spider near so there you go.
I've also seen players try to shoot them down with their whole army for a turn or two only to realize that warriors on rapid fire can easily wipe you from the map if you only concentrate on the wraiths..
So bottom line wraiths are a tarpit unit so oblige them. Sacrifice a blob of marines or scouts. Anything to keep them busy. Charge them first if possible.
Don't let them engage the units they want and you'll have a much better time against them.
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2016/11/03 17:27:35
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Okay so apparently we have been doing a couple things wrong. First off, swarms. Maybe I am mixing up my editions here or just made this up, but aren't swarm immune to the Instant death? Or at least from weapons twice their toughness? If someone could correct me, I'd appreciate it.
Secondly, he told me his Overlord/detachment grants all of his forces the reroll of 1 on his Reanimation protocols to his forces.
Thirdly, his spyder just sits in terrain halfway across the board, usually hiding in cover. They have to stay within 12" of the other units to grant to bonus? Cause we have not been doing that.
My carnifexes, would miss half their attacks, but I did get rerolls to wound (toxin sacs) but he would just pass all his invul saves and his RP saves. And with his toughness 6, they don't get instant killed by my carnifexes, even with their crushing claws. My hormoagaunts with poison attacks, simply did not keep up with his wraiths. I took 20, and his base attack of 4 with strength 6 rending and five on the charge and his standard attack ignoring my (albeit terrible 6+ save) he just chews through them. Unless I have I can hit him with something initiative 5, he tends to just rip through all my light and even monstrous creatures.
My space marines, I mostly just try to avoid him, since I play quick marines, (mostly fast attack, not too much of an issue) but my forces simply can't punch through their super saves. Tarpitting is very expensive for marines and with my lists, I have no throw away troops. I might need to try and find a way of doing that, but with the cheapest unit still costing 55-70 base, I'm not sure how I can pull that tatic off. With Tyranids, no problem. I can tie him up with rippers and guants, but usually within two turns he chews through them. Losing me a good amount of meat shield which could have been better placed.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Kap'n Krump wrote:Well, canoptek harvest + Decurion is difficult for anyone to deal with, to be frank.
(Quick thought - LSM? Some kind of space marine? I'm drawing a blank).
Anyways, back on topic, Decurion is difficult to deal with, no two ways about it.
One thought is that wraiths, in my experience, are generally don't really do a ton of damage, especially to something like massed hormagaunts. They're not a difficult unit to tarpit with a bunch of wounds, but I'm not surprised that things like carinifexes got beat.
But the biggest weakness of the wraiths is the spyder. The only way they can get RP is if they are within 12" of their spyder. If you can kill it, they don't get any more RP. And that formation is only allowed to take a single spyder, which is just a T6 3W MC, which admittedly has its own 4+ RP.
So, if you can target and kill the spyder, with say devastator missle launchers, the wraiths become easier to deal with. So, toss all those plasma, missle, and las you mentioned into the spyder first.
Also, they only get to reroll RP rolls of 1 if within 12" of their overlord, as I recall.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voidwraith wrote:I'm sick, just woke up, and haven't thought about this in awhile....but, one doesn't get FnP rolls against instant death wounds, correct?
FnP, no, but RP simply has a -1 modifier from instant death attacks. Because necrons are fair and balanced.
Sorry, in house speak. Loyalist Space Marines. Since my group has two Chaos players.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/03 17:33:34
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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2016/11/03 18:09:18
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Sinewy Scourge
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Your necron friend is cheating.
The wraiths must be within 12' of the spider to get RP.
Secondly, swarms are not immune to instant death, they get ID'd normally, and they suffer instant death to template weapons.
And, he only gets the re-rolls of 1 if he is within 12' of his warlord (don't quote me on that, I am not completely sure.)
Otherwise, try and secure objectives, and tie up the wraiths with a useless unit (hormogaunts for example), and just try to divide and conquer.
Good luck!
~Mikey
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2016/11/03 18:12:54
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte
United States
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woo boy you are doing a lot wrong. swarms are NOT immune to instant death, and I don't know if it matters or not but they take double wounds from templates. The spider and the lord only have 12" bubbles for their abilities so your opponent was cheating you on that too. Also make sure that you make your opponent roll all of his beast earned dangerous terrain tests. it sounds like your necron opponent has been cheating rather heavily either due to ignorance of his own rules or outright malice, either way it seems that you should read his rulebook so you can start calling him on his "mistakes" that seem to be benefiting him so extremely.
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2016/11/03 18:27:51
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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BA frag cannons instantly kill T3 swarms.
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2016/11/03 18:34:31
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
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Also, wraiths are toughness 5 not 6, so Crushing claw carnifexes would instant death then on a failed invul/modified reanimation.
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2016/11/03 18:42:39
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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swcorwyn wrote:Also, wraiths are toughness 5 not 6, so Crushing claw carnifexes would instant death then on a failed invul/modified reanimation.
Or mephiston. Or any dreadnought. Mephiston is especially brutal with null zone.
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2016/11/03 18:51:11
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Renesco P. Blue wrote:woo boy you are doing a lot wrong. swarms are NOT immune to instant death, and I don't know if it matters or not but they take double wounds from templates.
I matters a lot, as its not just flamer templates that deal double damage; it also applies to blast weapons.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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2016/11/03 19:09:17
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Holy christ. No kidding, we were/are getting alot of this wrong. I don't think he is doing it out of malice, he is sill kinda new to the game and very new to Necrons. But I think you guys are right, I should read his codex and check his formations. And the swarm rule is also my fault, I play nids (though I haven't used a ripper swarm since 4th edition) him and I were both ignorant of their rules. So that falls on me as well. I'll re-read the 7ed rules on swarms to get familiar with them again.
I'll read up on his formations and bring this up to him. I don't think he was cheating intentionally. Not really the kind of guy to do that. Probably just confused or misread or assumed some things. But the Spyder is a good thing to know. Because T5 is a lot easier to kill than 6. And the 12 inches is a huge restriction. Making the whole thing much more vulnerable as well as easier to cope with. Snipe the spider, then pummel the wraiths. Snipe or force his Lord to keep away or not keep up with his wraiths to deny him his 1s of rerolls for reanimation.
What do you mean about beasts? I doubled checked (because I was wrong about so much) but beasts have move through cover and ignore dangerous terrain tests. Is there something I am missing?
I'll try and get a *cough* digital *cough* copy or borrow his rulebook so I can look up some of this stuff. Cause I have no interest in Necron, so I am not going to buy their codex. Are there any Necrons players here that can confirm if his Lord grants the rerolls of 1 on reanimation protocols? Or is it just for his unit/formation. Or maybe better worded, does not apply to other formations. Because currently, hes doing it for his whole force.
Also thanks guys for the input and corrections!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/03 19:11:37
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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2016/11/03 19:27:38
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Yeah, not only is your necron friend brining a crazy strong list, but he's also not playing correctly.
As has been mentioned, wraiths and swarms must be within 12" of the spyder (can only be a single, lone spyder) at the start of their turn to gain a bonus. They can move outside that (to, say, charge), but if they're not within 12" at the beginning of their next turn, they receive no bonus. Of that I'm 100% certain.
I'm almost 100% certain only units within 12" of the overlord get to reroll 1s on their RP rolls. Check your codex.
Not only are swarms not immune to instant death, they actually take double the normal amount of wounds from blast and template weapons.
I THINK that they don't take double wounds if the template is enough to instantly kill them, but check that.
And yes, wraiths are only T5, so would be instakilled by a s10 carnifex, if one was lucky enough to get through its 3+ 5+. But a carnifex is a very poor choice, as it goes last, and will get rended to death. probably long before that.
Spyders, however, ARE T6.
Lastly, neither wraiths or scarabs attack at normal initiative if they charge through terrain, even though wraiths friggin' teleport through terrain. If you don't have assault grenades, or something that says it acts like assault grenades, you don't get your normal I when charging through terrain. That can be useful v. wraiths with whips.
As for beasts, you're right, they have move through cover, but also move 12" base. So they're fast, and I think that scarabs are both beasts and swarms. So, they have the rules for each.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/03 19:30:16
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. |
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2016/11/03 19:59:00
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot
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Yea its been said already but only the units in the reclamation legion within 12" of the overlord from the reclamation legion get the enhanced reanimation protocols. the reclamation legion does not include the canoptek harvest/the additional formations required to make up a full decurion. So his warriors, immortals, lychguard, tomb blades are the only things benefitting from the reroll of 1.
Unless he is bringing orikan, which confers a re-roll of all saving throws of 1. But this would need to be in a royal court with lots of other HQ's or in a CAD.
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12,000
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2016/11/03 20:44:42
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I don't know who Orikan is, but I'll ask him. He usually just play a Necron Lord, unless he is proxying him or something that I am not aware of.
Just to be clear though, as I'm not familar, only units from that specific group benfit his Necron Lords rerolls of 1? So lets say he has immortals, Scarabs or some other units, not taken with that formation. Even if they are within 12" of his lord they don't gain his doodle? So his canepek harvest also does not gain his doodle?
I really need to read these things. :(
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8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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2016/11/03 20:57:46
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Sinewy Scourge
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Its alright dude, nobody is blaming you for not buying a codex to keep your buddy in check.
I think the wraiths would get the re-reolls of one, although I am not completely sure as I despise necrons with every ounce of my being so I don't own their codex
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2016/11/03 22:18:35
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Moscow, Russia
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Tsol wrote:
My Tyranids have performed even worse. Even when taking 3 carnfixes (melee +toxin sack) were killed by second round of combat. Even when I threw in hormogaunts with toxin sacs, with warriors with boneswords (trying to get instant death) he passes most saves, and never fails his 4+ RP and rerolls of 1s. No joke, in the five games I've played, I have killed one of his wraiths. In total. So I am curious to see/hear what you guys do to counter this kind of death star.
Wiaiths don't get the reroll of 1. That's just the units in the Reclamation Legion (the mandatory core of the Decurion).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 23:06:42
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2016/11/03 22:50:29
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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Remember though, if he has a cryptek or Illuminor Szeras even instant death can't reduce their RP since the FAQ (really dumb ruling if you ask me).
Kill the spyder, always. If you're lucky you get first turn and can prevent it from activating RP in the first place, since he has to choose every movement phase what to give to his harvest.
Wraiths... either throw some cheap tarpit units at them OR some mean death star. But even the Death star only has a chance if RP is gone in my experience.
Scarabs are usually a nice source for kill points.
Btw. should he ever get a ghost ark, you'll want to kill that thing right after the spyder . There's nothing more tiresome than seeing 3 of the 4 warriors you shot with half your army see stand up again in his turn.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/03 22:51:13
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2016/11/03 23:09:27
Subject: Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Death-Dealing Devastator
Arkansas (Not Canada)
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Something also to keep in mind vs Necrons is that they really don't like Stormtalons.
For 115 points you can get 7 shots at AP4, hitting and wounding on 2s, 4 of which are twinlinked.
A Raptor Wing of two of the above talons and a Land Speeder with a Typhoon Missile Launcher and a H. Bolter is 300 points on the nose and might be a Necron's worst nightmare.
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7500+
4000+
3000+
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1000+
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2016/11/04 00:05:35
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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With Tyranids against Necron's you need to pick your battles really carefully. (Unless you are playing Flyrants. Flyrants are special).
Don't fight wraiths with Carnifexes. Or Hive Tyrants. Or Trygons. The 3++/5+ with rending will eat monsters alive. Also, bring more hormagaunts. If you are bringing any of them you want 60 of them. Taketwo big 30 man units, stick toxin sacs on them, use them to block and tarpit the wraiths. Use fleet to keep them between the wraiths and your MC's until he charges you or you can charge him. As long as you can keep them in synapse they will hold the wraiths there till the end of time. Toxin sacs let you put half a wound per horma on the wraiths per turn, eventually they will fail something.
Use the rest of you army to kill the spider, then charge the warrior blobs. Their low Initiative means that if you can get them to break you can sweep them easily.
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2016/11/04 00:30:07
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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babelfish wrote:With Tyranids against Necron's you need to pick your battles really carefully. (Unless you are playing Flyrants. Flyrants are special).
Don't fight wraiths with Carnifexes. Or Hive Tyrants. Or Trygons. The 3++/5+ with rending will eat monsters alive. Also, bring more hormagaunts. If you are bringing any of them you want 60 of them. Taketwo big 30 man units, stick toxin sacs on them, use them to block and tarpit the wraiths. Use fleet to keep them between the wraiths and your MC's until he charges you or you can charge him. As long as you can keep them in synapse they will hold the wraiths there till the end of time. Toxin sacs let you put half a wound per horma on the wraiths per turn, eventually they will fail something.
Use the rest of you army to kill the spider, then charge the warrior blobs. Their low Initiative means that if you can get them to break you can sweep them easily.
As someone that uses Necrons a lot I cannot help but recognize the part of the Gaunts is just bad advice.
Warriors can actively get the charge if they're boarded up in an ark, and Flayed Ones are disgustingly good if they're in a large group.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2016/11/04 00:55:59
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Moscow, Russia
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
As someone that uses Necrons a lot I cannot help but recognize the part of the Gaunts is just bad advice.
Why?
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2016/11/04 01:03:33
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Clarifying some of this.
Tsol wrote:Okay so apparently we have been doing a couple things wrong. First off, swarms. Maybe I am mixing up my editions here or just made this up, but aren't swarm immune to the Instant death? Or at least from weapons twice their toughness? If someone could correct me, I'd appreciate it.
They are not immune to ID. Devourers from a HT or Carnifex will double them out.
Secondly, he told me his Overlord/detachment grants all of his forces the reroll of 1 on his Reanimation protocols to his forces.
Only those in range and only from the RL.
Thirdly, his spyder just sits in terrain halfway across the board, usually hiding in cover. They have to stay within 12" of the other units to grant to bonus? Cause we have not been doing that.
Spyder must stay in range or he will lose RP
My carnifexes, would miss half their attacks, but I did get rerolls to wound (toxin sacs) but he would just pass all his invul saves and his RP saves. And with his toughness 6,
Toughness 5
they don't get instant killed by my carnifexes, even with their crushing claws. My hormoagaunts with poison attacks, simply did not keep up with his wraiths. I took 20, and his base attack of 4
Base attack of 3 per model. They can get 4 with the pistol but then they cannot have Whip Coils.
with strength 6 rending and five on the charge and his standard attack ignoring my (albeit terrible 6+ save)
Whip Coils have AP-, so you will get your 6+ save.
he just chews through them. Unless I have I can hit him with something initiative 5, he tends to just rip through all my light and even monstrous creatures.
You will find that once he starts playing them correctly, you will have a better chance, but in general they will chew up your basic troops since you have quality save.
My space marines, I mostly just try to avoid him, since I play quick marines, (mostly fast attack, not too much of an issue) but my forces simply can't punch through their super saves. Tarpitting is very expensive for marines and with my lists, I have no throw away troops. I might need to try and find a way of doing that, but with the cheapest unit still costing 55-70 base, I'm not sure how I can pull that tatic off. With Tyranids, no problem. I can tie him up with rippers and guants, but usually within two turns he chews through them. Losing me a good amount of meat shield which could have been better placed.
A Chapter Master with Shield Eternal and Artificer Armor along with any kind of FNP will tarpit that unit almost indefinitely. Make it White Scars and you totally control how the fights go.
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2016/11/04 01:31:18
Subject: Re:Having trouble with Necrons (arent we all)
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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If you are attacking the Necrons, try special attacks against their Initiative. Anything causing blinding test is your friend.
Or alternatively, attack on their Ld (against tough unit which lacks agood invulnerable save (i.e. Spiders, Destroyers, etc)). Psychic sherik paired with Terrify or 1st Company Task Force is good for it. Despite their universal Ld10, 3D6 is likely to get a 10 or higher, and he will only make his RP rolls.
Also, if you need to engage their toughness value head on, anything that can decrease their T value is invaluable. For instance, if you cast enfeeble on warriors, Assault Cannons, Hive Tyrant's TL Devourers and especially the (Grey Knights) incenirators suddenly becomes terrfying; if you cast enfeeble on Wraiths, the missile lauchers, lascannons, Battle cannons, Heavy Venom Cannons, power fist armed Captains and Vanguard Veterans, Carnifexes all becomes much more deadly.
Last But not the Least, target priority, is destroy their support units first, Spider is one, Triarch Stalker is another because it increase the BS to anyone who are within 6 inches; Ghost Ark is the third due to its ability to bring back D3 dead warriors each turn. And also note that these units, are much easier to kill than Wraiths, Destroyers, Lychguards. Because first, they are either MC without good invulnerable saves, or are vehicles (which is much more vulnerable in current meta); second, they tend to be fewer in numbers.
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