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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




With the recent staggering success of Total War: Warhammer; the return of some OOP novels, like Prince of Altdorf for specialTotal War: Warhammer Old World edition and with the for comming succes of Blood Bowl; I am getting excited how will Games Workshop bring back Warhammer Fanatsy battles. Its clear that their is a need for te classical Fantasy genre.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Philadelphia

That's not going to happen. Your best bet is to get your Warhammer fix via other methods.

FFG was one way, but now that GW/FFG have split, games like Chaos in the Old World and Diskwars are dead.

You could take a look at the Warmaster Community - there's something of a small revival in the UK, potentially using the Warmaster Revolution ruleset.

   
Made in us
Stubborn White Lion




West Lafayette, IN

There are plenty of retrogaming clubs. You can swing back to 8th, or try to find a game of 9th Age. You have Oldhammer with 3rd Ed. WFB, or Classichammer with 5th or 6th Ed. depending on who you can find to play. Tons of options. However, none of those are currently produced by GW, and none will. They've gone whole hog with AOS, and aren't about to backpedal now. Not with all the work they've thrown into it.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







If you want old WHFB back in a fashion that's going to be supported more going forward look up 9th Age. They've changed all the proper nouns and are rewriting the fluff to avoid legal issues, but it's basically 9th edition WHFB.

 Just Tony wrote:
...They've gone whole hog with AOS, and aren't about to backpedal now. Not with all the work they've thrown into it.


They did work on AoS? (I kid)

Victoria est autem vita.  
   
Made in de
Praetorian





Rhein Main Gebiet

I cannot imagine them bringing back a 28mm 'ranks n flanks' game, but I could imagine GW bringing back Warmaster or a Mordheim type game set in the End Times though.

On the other hand, with some thoughtful regimental bases it would not be hard to make those round bases into square formations. So I will be happily surprised if GW bring it back, but not disappointed if they don't.

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Morden and Vir, In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum 
   
Made in us
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







Maybe someone at GW will notice they've had the WotR rules gathering dust on a shelf for years and they could rebrand it as a WHFB game. And get to try and upsell Age of Sigmar players on the movement trays with round-based indents.

Victoria est autem vita.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Doesn't their renewed focus on LotR mean they've been looking at those rules? Their community website even puts a spotlight on those Ironhill dwarves.

 StygianBeach wrote:
I cannot imagine them bringing back a 28mm 'ranks n flanks' game, but I could imagine GW bringing back Warmaster or a Mordheim type game set in the End Times though.

On the other hand, with some thoughtful regimental bases it would not be hard to make those round bases into square formations. So I will be happily surprised if GW bring it back, but not disappointed if they don't.


This I see as most likely to happen. Either Warmaster to get people to buy entire new armies or an End Times reconquest that basically combines AoS gameplay and aesthetics with the old world for a alternate continuation. Players get the old world while GW can continue making mass skirmish fantasy models for both games.

We'll see in five years what happens. GW confirmed that's how long they've already got AoS planned out for in releases and it'll be about that long for the TW warhammer trilogy.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I would really like to know, what is the percentage of sales between old and bew lines.

To me it looks that the for example the Empire line is strong as it was and they are all on squares. Otherwise they would have been thrown out or reboxed. Heck even Ogres and O&G ranges are mostly intact. I would say that TW:W could have a influence on this, but this can be only told when by GW bean counters, when Tomb Kings and Bretonnia will be out in full glory.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





I want Fantasy to come back more than anyone, but It's not going to happen.

They killed it, took it out back and shot it in the head 'cause it was getting too old.

Forge World *might* take it over one day, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Tomb Kings and Bretonnia will never return in their current image because GW can't copyright material that is too much in common with actual history.

I'd be surprised if we ever saw a cavalry model actually riding a horse ever again, because horses aren't copyrightable.

They are going to slowly phase out the old lines until they all look like sigmarines.

Square Bases for Life! 
   
Made in au
Battlefield Tourist





Melbourne .au

Don't hold your breath waiting for the return of WHFB or The Old World, but there's still plenty of fantasy figures available, and your 3rd-8th rulebooks didn't vanish in a puff of smoke. 9th Age is free online, and there's options such as Kings of War which you can just as easily play using the "lore" of the Old World (which you can also do using the AoS rules, or even the SAGA rules, SoBH, etc). The Perrys provide a fine range of plastics that can replace the sadly-departed Bretts with supplementary models from Reaper, etc. TK are a lot harder to start fresh at this point, but it's doable if you're especially dedicated.

Mordheim may or may not make a comeback, and if it does it may or may not be AOS-ified as WHQ was. The Mordheim rules are still available if you look around online, and as always you can use whichever figures you like.

Figures on square bases will stay that way until they get redone. At which point they'll either be repackaged on rounds like the Black Orcs, or removed/replaced entirely.

   
Made in us
Stubborn White Lion




West Lafayette, IN

THe issue is that WFB wasn't as IP protectable as GW would have liked, so going back to anything generic would be basically handing people like Chapter House money, and that's what is currently driving EVERYTHING that GW is doing now. If it wasn't, the Imperial Guard would still be called the Imperial Guard.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

That is the really nice thing, Azazelx. 8th edition of Warhammer really was a bloated bible of rules, and AoS and Kings of War definitely make for more accessible ways to play in the Old World, depending on whether you want to stay with "ranks and flanks" or a more organic troop style.

It's a bummer that WHFB will no longer be supported or expanded, but frankly fans who really love the game could still have tons of fun in a group all dedicated to playing in the Old World.

I wish I had a gaming group that all like the WHFB fluff as much as me- I could literally play with any set of good rules and be happy, provided they let me use the right style of figures, be it Mordheim, Song of Blades and Heroes or several others for skirmish gaming, or 9th Age, KoW or AoS for full-scale battles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/27 14:25:30




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Stubborn White Lion




West Lafayette, IN

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I want Fantasy to come back more than anyone, but It's not going to happen.

They killed it, took it out back and shot it in the head 'cause it was getting too old.

Forge World *might* take it over one day, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Tomb Kings and Bretonnia will never return in their current image because GW can't copyright material that is too much in common with actual history.

I'd be surprised if we ever saw a cavalry model actually riding a horse ever again, because horses aren't copyrightable.

They are going to slowly phase out the old lines until they all look like sigmarines.


Regarding the bolded: such a non-issue. Axis and Allies has existed in pretty much the same form for how long? The problem had nothing to do with WFB being too old, it had everything to do with GW being unwilling to invest in advertising and growing the customer base. It had everything to do with GW refusing to fix the balance problems with the books in an edition by replacing the two or three books, but by completely revising the system. It had everything to do with GW trying to sell the same grognards new copies of the same thing they already had, rather than making prices low enough to foster multiple armies per player. There are a TON of things that killed WFB, but being too damned old is NOT one of them.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Not going to happen. AoS is selling very well and theyve announced a 2nd edition of the rules. WHFB is dead and buried.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
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Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Stubborn White Lion




West Lafayette, IN

Wait, a 2nd edition in less than 2 years? That's not the mark of something doing well. And by every speck of evidence I can find, AOS doing well is only happening in small pockets, with the total whole of the world being lackluster sales.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Eh, I'm not sure you can call it second edition. It's just the new general's handbook coming out that's needed to contain points for all the new armies and battletomes that will be released next year.

What's really great is the fan feedback they're listening to on what people want to see in the new book like point cost changes, more battlelines and more narratives.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Not going to happen. AoS is selling very well and theyve announced a 2nd edition of the rules. WHFB is dead and buried.


Well, they might try a 30k approach to it, you never know. I do doubt we'll see any gear shifts back to rank and file when so many competitors are filling that void.
   
Made in us
Stubborn White Lion




West Lafayette, IN

Baron Klatz wrote:
Eh, I'm not sure you can call it second edition. It's just the new general's handbook coming out that's needed to contain points for all the new armies and battletomes that will be released next year.

What's really great is the fan feedback they're listening to on what people want to see in the new book like point cost changes, more battlelines and more narratives.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Not going to happen. AoS is selling very well and theyve announced a 2nd edition of the rules. WHFB is dead and buried.


Well, they might try a 30k approach to it, you never know. I do doubt we'll see any gear shifts back to rank and file when so many competitors are filling that void.


And that part I disagree with. Who is the "best" game studio out there? Were they the first to do a FPS? (Just an example, I DETEST FPS games) Was the market already covered by FPSs from other studios? Without doing any sort of searching since I'm at work and time is limited, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that IF they weren't the first, they certainly wouldn't bypass the market because of competition. I doubt GW would either, they just need to see the profitability in it, and then use their standing as the "best" to push to the fore. They won't, but that's what they would do if they followed any other company's business practices.

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For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Well Age of Sigmar being a succes is quite a strech. On googletrends it has the same amount of searches like WHFB. I know it doesnt reflect sales values, but it still indicates popularity.

https://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=Warhammer%20Fantasy,Age%20of%20Sigmar,Kings%20of%20War,9th%20Age

I like, when people play the "it wasnt IP protectable" card. Does MP3 players are IP protectable? No. Yet Apple was still able to ton of money from Ipods.
   
Made in us
Stubborn White Lion




West Lafayette, IN

Apple has the cult of brand loyalty going for it. Not only that, but having exclusive software for loading music and the like. MP3 players hit because there was no non-Mac version available. Computers are the same way. Apple has the cult of brand loyalty, but good luck getting games for your Apple comp. Some people want a brand, some people want versatility.


And if you want MY opinion on the whole AOS thing as far as parallels go?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraverse#Black_September

The Black September relaunch is probably the best parallel I could find.

www.classichammer.com

For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Just Tony wrote:
Apple has the cult of brand loyalty going for it. Not only that, but having exclusive software for loading music and the like. MP3 players hit because there was no non-Mac version available. Computers are the same way. Apple has the cult of brand loyalty, but good luck getting games for your Apple comp. Some people want a brand, some people want versatility.


And if you want MY opinion on the whole AOS thing as far as parallels go?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraverse#Black_September

The Black September relaunch is probably the best parallel I could find.



I do think that Games Workshop has own little cult of brand. 40k and WHFB had it till 2000s. When people from 4-5th edition WHFB are want to return via TW:W to the game, then I do think that the part of the infamous Kirby, that GW has aloyal fanbase is true. Just GW doesnt give inniative to buy for a number of reasons.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




herjan1987 wrote:
Well Age of Sigmar being a succes is quite a strech. On googletrends it has the same amount of searches like WHFB. I know it doesnt reflect sales values, but it still indicates popularity.


On reddit it's doing great compared to fantasy. AoS has almost 4,000 subscribers compared to fantasy being almost at 3,000 and that's just after a year.

The activity is also very good with posts almost every four hours, alot of those being tabletop newbies. So if not "successful" it at least is getting alot of people into the hobby which is always a good thing.

TW:W has had a hand in it as well with some army building activity going along with the new dlc's.

So TW:W is very beneficial for both Wfb and AoS. Certainly wouldn't hurt to play on the Old World popularity with a call back game.

They also need to lessen that no AoS mod restriction. I've seen some great stuff pulled back because of it and that'd certainly be a boon to AoS as well with people being able to charge the enemy as an epic Stormcast army. (There's a hammers of Sigmar army which is basically that but had to remove the Stormcast artwork it used.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/28 20:38:14


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Regarding the bolded: such a non-issue. Axis and Allies has existed in pretty much the same form for how long? The problem had nothing to do with WFB being too old, it had everything to do with GW being unwilling to invest in advertising and growing the customer base. It had everything to do with GW refusing to fix the balance problems with the books in an edition by replacing the two or three books, but by completely revising the system. It had everything to do with GW trying to sell the same grognards new copies of the same thing they already had, rather than making prices low enough to foster multiple armies per player. There are a TON of things that killed WFB, but being too damned old is NOT one of them.


I think you are reading into what I wrote a little too much.

I used the word "Old" as an oversimplification of why they killed off WFB, and also to complete my "Ol' Yeller" analogy.

I understand there were many reasons as to why WFB was canned, I didn't really think that a full on synopsis of the reasons was necessary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/28 23:43:49


Square Bases for Life! 
   
Made in gb
Drakhun





Give that GW have just brought back Blood Bowl and we've seen the first 40k Primarch since Epic. I'd say WHFB will be back in around 10-15 years. It's just a matter of waiting.

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Made in de
Dogged Kum






 Brutus_Apex wrote:

I understand there were many reasons as to why WFB was canned, I didn't really think that a full on synopsis of the reasons was necessary.


I thought there was only one? And that was: not enough new sales.

- Which was due to a lack of new players. Which was due to a lack of marketing and gateway products. Which ironically came out only some months later (TW:Warhammer). Which was just bad, bad product management, really.


Currently playing: Infinity, Saga, X-Wing, Frostgrave 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Couldn't agree more. Which is one of the reasons I resent AOS so much, and one of the reasons I started that thread on this forum about resenting AOS.

Square Bases for Life! 
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






It isnt going to come back. AOS, love it or hate it, is here to stay. Its easier to get into, rules are easier to understand and the game isnt penetrable.
I bought an entire AOS plaable force for 200$, in 8th edition would that have been remotely possible?
just think of the AOS fluff as a sequel.

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4000pts 2000 1500
 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






i think why so many people want the Old world to return is how Age of Sigmar was originally handled.

They made it sound like things would be basically the same in the background.. but the blew up the world in the end times
and then turned the game in to a high fantasy setting.. deleting parts the couldn't copy write while keeping others.. so the background
became very spotty.. Those are nurgle demons.. but those are no longer called lizardmen.. parts went away and parts stayed..

The rules went from 200+ page book to a 4 page pamphlet...with tons of community interpretations of how the rules should actually work.
We had to wait a year for an official point values for a game that many players used in all previous editions for 20+ years..

You can keep your old models... but you need to change your bases.. and if you don't and buy any new models your units won't look coherent

Games Workshop continues to release video games (total war, Mordiheim) based in the old world only to have new players find out there is no such thing.

In most locations it destroyed the community that was already shaky from 8th edition; Now newer players are okay with the easy in, simpler rules but
find it difficult to find games; I have heard a number of comparisons to the 4th edition D&D community split to AoS.


 
   
Made in es
Dakka Veteran




 Genoside07 wrote:
; I have heard a number of comparisons to the 4th edition D&D community split to AoS.



Where 9th age plays the pathfinder part.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Saint Louis Mo

Didn't GW release a statement saying they would allow for 8th edition play in their stores a while back?

I'm one of the few who enjoy AOS, but I don't approach it as WHFB I approach it as a completely different game with a similar setting.

That being said I still find my self playing 8th and 7th edition WHFB more then AOS, and KOW more then both of them.


 
   
Made in es
Dakka Veteran




 DarkWind wrote:
Didn't GW release a statement saying they would allow for 8th edition play in their stores a while back?


They allow 8th (or any other edition) at WHW. Down at the store level it's up to the store manager.

I know stores that allow 9th age, and others that won't allow anything other than AoS (not even Mordheim)

   
 
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