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2022/01/09 16:37:08
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thairne wrote:Shield Captain Murderdeath
Relic: Obliteratum for S10 -5 D3+3 shooting
WLT1: Shadowkeeper trait for no invulns
WLT2: Champion of the Imperium for rerolls
CC: +1 to wound against characters
and then you use the strat to give him dread host fighting stance for AP -4.
6 S7 attacks with +1 to wound, AP-4, no invulns at D2 and a S10 -5 D3+3 assault 1 weapon with RR1s to hit
buh-bye basically everything.
or switch out Obliteratum for Praetorian Plate.
Or Stasis Oubliette.
Or the rerolls for Peerless Warrior for MWs on 6s.
Shield Captain Smashfucker is back.
avg 10W on a 3+ target, 8-10W on a 2+ target up to T6.
With obliteratum, you get up to 15W/13W respectively.
Except against anything with -1 damage, which is the stuff you REALLY need to kill cause it is often the best stuff in an army.
I am still puzzles why custodes got no -1 damage defense effects or +1 damage offense effects. These have been somewhere in almost every army in 9th.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:I'm working on putting together a All Bikers list, and I'm trying to figure out, since Shadow Keepers seems like the only one beneficial to this type of list, it's likely to be them. Two Vertus Captains, Tip of the spear.
A Healthy mix of missiles and bikes in squads of 6. We'll see how it goes.
Magna Imperator is the way to go. You have to run pretty MSU, and the reroll a hit and wound for every MSU unit is quite strong.
artific3r wrote:So what options do we have against really tough units and things with -1d like plagueburst crawlers? Salvo launchers?
That and FW dreads.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:So really, is there any reason NOT to always take Sword n Board on regular guard now? The +1 save coupled with Swords now +1 S and better shootings means I'm struggling to find a situation where spears would be better. MAYBE if you know you'll be facing a lot of MCs like Nids, but in which case the shields will be even more valuable...
They're 5 points for a weak effect.
Eihnlazer wrote:Honestly dont expect to see more than 6 custodian guard in any lists anymore.
Why take a 50pt sword and board guard, when you can take 50pt wardens?
You'll need 2 squads of 3 to fill out your battalion along with a squad of prosecutors. Thats it though. The days of custodian guard are gone.
because your elite slots are better served on other things
WisdomLS wrote:Initially I was really down on the book after seeing all the leaks and previews.
Now having read the whole thing I'm cautiously optimistic but see a couple of big problems.
With the shield hosts, stances and character options we have alot of tricks and abilities to play around with and they will reward good planning and clever play which should be fun to use.
None of our units are bad (except obviously the landraider) and we can play the objective game really well still.
The two issues I still have are both mainly for competetive play.
Firstly we have dropped in overall survivability - losing all our 3++, and some of our strats just means we will die quicker VS some of the hyper efficient killing lists put there.
The rumored points drop on most things will help with this no doubt.
The second one is the big issue - how do we kill hard targets? Against drukhari monsters or the new nid monsters everything we have just bounces off. -1 dam and invul just completely shuts down our combat ability and a squad or two of bikes doesn't even start to cover this weakness.
Against most list we will be fun and competetive but again neg damage and/or invuln saves (which seems to be most new armies) we just don't really have a game other than hope to hold objectives.
FW Dreadnoughts and melta missiles. Nothing else in the army works against big -1d targets.
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2022/01/09 16:46:41
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Regular Dakkanaut
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On the Custodian Guard point I think they still absolutely have a purpose. You can stack Praesidium Shield Wall (-1 to hit in melee) on them for a bit of a durability buff, you could use either the vexilla defensor (benefit of light cover) or magnifica (dense cover) for additional buffs AND you can use genetic arcane alchemy and/or the Emperor's Auspice on them and i think these would all make them pretty durable and compared to our other troops options they are already way more durable and capable of dishing it out in combat (and shooting if they get close enough). Plus wardens are elites and I would rather save my elites points/slots for dreads and allarus terminators.
I'm taking two squads of 4 in my 2k points list, I'm looking forward to seeing how they go.
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2022/01/09 17:20:34
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Damsel of the Lady
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Necronmaniac05 wrote:On the Custodian Guard point I think they still absolutely have a purpose. You can stack Praesidium Shield Wall (-1 to hit in melee) on them for a bit of a durability buff, you could use either the vexilla defensor (benefit of light cover) or magnifica (dense cover) for additional buffs AND you can use genetic arcane alchemy and/or the Emperor's Auspice on them and i think these would all make them pretty durable and compared to our other troops options they are already way more durable and capable of dishing it out in combat (and shooting if they get close enough). Plus wardens are elites and I would rather save my elites points/slots for dreads and allarus terminators.
I'm taking two squads of 4 in my 2k points list, I'm looking forward to seeing how they go.
Strongly consider dropping it to 3 per squad I think. That's the cutoff for making the strats cheaper. Being able to use Arcane and Auspice twice as many times will probably be better than 1 extra body per squad. You want to go 3 man or big man (as I call it, like 6+). My opinion anyway
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2022/01/09 17:39:52
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Dakka Veteran
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I agree with that opinion. Specifically, I think that for pretty much all Custodes you go with a three-man squad.
1) More flexible
2) Less points
3) Cheaper strats
4) Still has Obsec
5) More targets for the opponent to shoot at / less maximum damage per opponent attack
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2022/01/09 17:41:25
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Only Arcane Genetic Alchemy is cheaper with 3 guard models. Emperor's Auspice is 4 or fewer models = 1 CP and Praesidium shield wall is just a flat 1CP.
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2022/01/09 17:57:56
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Regular Dakkanaut
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2 things.
1st, slayers of nightmares also goes to 1 CP for a 3 man unit. Besides that, aside from some avenge the fallen optimization, what advantage do we get making our units 4 mans? I’d rather just flat ignore avenge then fallen and likely save overall efficiency and mental strain by sticking to 3 man units.
2nd. I’m partially basing hating shields on the expectation they go to 10 points, but even at their current prize I just don’t see it. The problem is in order to make shield guys actually durable, you need to build into them so they’re not just a list parasite. At that point why not go into wardens and terminators instead, since they actually have some offensive power?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/09 18:01:10
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2022/01/09 18:17:36
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Regular Dakkanaut
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If i went to 5 man squads I was thinking something like this (I play casual so the excess 5 points isn't a problem!):
HQs:
Trajann Valoris
Shield Captain in Allarus Terminator Armour with Praetorian Plate
Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike, Tip of the Spear, Salvo launcher, Superior Creation & Impregnable Mind
Troops:
5 x Shield Guard
5 x Shield Guard
5 x Prosecutors
Elites:
Vexilus Praetor w guardian Spear and Vexilla Magnifica
Contemptor Galatus Dreadnought w Eternal Penitent
3 x Allarus Custodians w Castellan Axes
1 x Allarus Custodian w Castellan Axe
1 x Allarus Custodian w Castellan Axe
Fast Attack:
4 Vertus Praetors with salvo launchers
Shield Host: Emperor's Chosen
I can use the Emperor's Chosen strat to either put the Praetors into Solar Watch fighting style if i really need them to make a charge or another (such as Shadow Keepers) if i need the buff. two one man Allarus custodians for DS screening.
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2022/01/09 19:34:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
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Are we the only faction in the game who's HQ choices are locked down to 1 per list? How many captains can you fit in a Space marine list, but we can only take 1 of each type?
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2022/01/09 19:39:36
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Alright guys, here’s my nasty combo. You need captain in terminator armor with pretorian plate and a bike captain with auric Aquallias. I’d also recommend giving both superior creation and mantal of minus 1 to hit on the captain. I’d also recommend giving impregnable mind to the terminator captian. Until FAQ says otherwise, nothing precludes the bike captain from boosting with an advance, giving you 34 inches of movement to get as close as possible to your OP’s backfield objective(s). Now if your opponent will need to either A) clear your. Bike cap, or B) clear slightly more than 5 inches of space around you cap. Otherwise you teleport your thermi cap in and likely steal the objective for turn 2 scoring.
If your opponent goes for option B then keeping your bike captain isn’t that much of a priority to keep alive (distraction carnifex). If he goes for option A (which you’ll know since his units will still be around him during his pyschic, shooting, and charge phase) then you can use alechamy and Auspice to make sure he lives. Even your opponent thwarts your plans here you can still use plate later on in some other Capacity.
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2022/01/09 19:44:13
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
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Put the plate on a Terminator Vexhilla and have him teleport homer in a bunch of spear terminators. End of backfield.
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2022/01/09 20:17:44
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Been Around the Block
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Are we the only faction in the game who's HQ choices are locked down to 1 per list? How many captains can you fit in a Space marine list, but we can only take 1 of each type?
It’s not 1 per army, it’s 1 of each type per detachment. That’s pretty liberal by Ork standards.
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2022/01/09 20:19:17
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
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Rivener wrote:FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Are we the only faction in the game who's HQ choices are locked down to 1 per list? How many captains can you fit in a Space marine list, but we can only take 1 of each type?
It’s not 1 per army, it’s 1 of each type per detachment. That’s pretty liberal by Ork standards.
How many detachments do you plan on taking in a Custodes list? This isn't the Guard. It's a silly restriction given how Detachments work in the first place.
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2022/01/09 20:41:08
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Rivener wrote:FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Are we the only faction in the game who's HQ choices are locked down to 1 per list? How many captains can you fit in a Space marine list, but we can only take 1 of each type?
It’s not 1 per army, it’s 1 of each type per detachment. That’s pretty liberal by Ork standards.
How many detachments do you plan on taking in a Custodes list? This isn't the Guard. It's a silly restriction given how Detachments work in the first place.
All armies are getting rules like that. It’s not unique to Custodes.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2022/01/09 20:51:15
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Fresh-Faced New User
Slovakia
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Rivener wrote:FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Are we the only faction in the game who's HQ choices are locked down to 1 per list? How many captains can you fit in a Space marine list, but we can only take 1 of each type?
It’s not 1 per army, it’s 1 of each type per detachment. That’s pretty liberal by Ork standards.
How many detachments do you plan on taking in a Custodes list? This isn't the Guard. It's a silly restriction given how Detachments work in the first place.
It's not that bad at all. We can take 3 different shield captains, trajann, valerian, knight Centura, aleya, blade master.
As also a DG player, when DG codex came out, we could take only 1 lord of death guard (that included daemon prince and even typhus) and malignant plaguecaster... you couldn't even fill the HQ slots in a battalion if my memory serves me right, until Faq allowed DPs alongside another lord of dg hq and plaguecaster.
As custodes, we are spoiled for choice compared to that.
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2022/01/09 20:52:25
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
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JNAProductions wrote:FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Rivener wrote:FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Are we the only faction in the game who's HQ choices are locked down to 1 per list? How many captains can you fit in a Space marine list, but we can only take 1 of each type?
It’s not 1 per army, it’s 1 of each type per detachment. That’s pretty liberal by Ork standards.
How many detachments do you plan on taking in a Custodes list? This isn't the Guard. It's a silly restriction given how Detachments work in the first place.
All armies are getting rules like that. It’s not unique to Custodes.
I Don't mean to be sassy, but look at the original quoted question: What other factions have HQ restrictions like we do? You say ALL do. Please illustrate any non-character HQ restrictions. Guard can take multiple Company commanders, or Tank Commanders. SM can take multiple Captains. Eldar can take multiple Farseers. DG can take multiple, I'll be honest I don't know what their generic "captain" unit is. Champion? GK can take Multiple GMNDK.
Either change the way Custodes Detachments work, I.E stop forcing us to fill 2-3 slots, or just remove the restriction.
If we take a regular Shield Captain with a spear, can we still take Valaryian? Yes, because this is a dumb rule that was put into place to nerf our best list combinations.
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2022/01/09 20:55:36
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
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indeed, off the top of my head:
Space marines: max 1 captain and 2 lts per detachment (and unlike ours, that is blanket over ALL captain/lt types, as its tied to the keywords not the datasheet, so Captain in Buzzword Armour and Captain with Left Handed Bolt Tightener are not allowed in same detachment)
Thousand Sons: max one deamon price per detachment.
Orks: one Warboss or speedboss per detachment
grey knights: max one Grand master and one Brother captain per detachment.
Sisters: max one canoness per detachment.
its pretty par for the course, to be honest.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 20:55:52
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
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2022/01/09 21:14:28
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I have a question regarding the shadowkeepers fighting style: stance one says that if an enemy unit is within engagement range of a shadowkeepers unit, every model in the enemy unit gets - 1 attack.
Is that debuff cumulative if an enemy unit is within engagement range of two shadowkeepers units?
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2022/01/09 21:19:11
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Fresh-Faced New User
Slovakia
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:. DG can take multiple, I'll be honest I don't know what their generic "captain" unit is. Champion?
They can take:
1 of Chaos lord/Lord of Virulence or Contagion/Typhus
1 Daemon Prince
1 Plaguecaster
you can also take Necrosius and Vulgrar (these don't really count as I don't think anyone played them, ever)
So, yeah, be happy we the "restrictions" we have as custodes
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2022/01/09 21:23:34
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: JNAProductions wrote:FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Rivener wrote:FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Are we the only faction in the game who's HQ choices are locked down to 1 per list? How many captains can you fit in a Space marine list, but we can only take 1 of each type?
It’s not 1 per army, it’s 1 of each type per detachment. That’s pretty liberal by Ork standards.
How many detachments do you plan on taking in a Custodes list? This isn't the Guard. It's a silly restriction given how Detachments work in the first place.
All armies are getting rules like that. It’s not unique to Custodes.
I Don't mean to be sassy, but look at the original quoted question: What other factions have HQ restrictions like we do? You say ALL do. Please illustrate any non-character HQ restrictions. Guard can take multiple Company commanders, or Tank Commanders. SM can take multiple Captains. Eldar can take multiple Farseers. DG can take multiple, I'll be honest I don't know what their generic "captain" unit is. Champion? GK can take Multiple GMNDK.
Either change the way Custodes Detachments work, I.E stop forcing us to fill 2-3 slots, or just remove the restriction.
If we take a regular Shield Captain with a spear, can we still take Valaryian? Yes, because this is a dumb rule that was put into place to nerf our best list combinations.
All 9th edition Codecs. You’re comparing to 8th.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2022/01/09 22:19:05
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high
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Do you fellas think it would be worthwhile to create a new thread for the new dex? This one has probably run its course.
NGL, I am really torn. The Shield host abilities are all pretty awesome. I guess they all have a niche to base the army around.
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Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. |
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2022/01/09 22:40:49
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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iGuy91 wrote:Do you fellas think it would be worthwhile to create a new thread for the new dex? This one has probably run its course.
NGL, I am really torn. The Shield host abilities are all pretty awesome. I guess they all have a niche to base the army around.
Probably a good idea.
Gotta ask again though: anybody know if the shadowkeepers fighting style that gives - 1 attack to enemy models within engagement range is cumulative if that enemy unit is in engagement range of two shadowkeeper units?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 22:46:00
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2022/01/09 22:46:24
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Fresh-Faced New User
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@Tiberias
Don't think so.
Whats your choice for the Bladechampion if you want him to rumble the house?
I'm a bit unsure about my HQ choices, what do you guys think?
Shadowkeeper:
1) Trajann
2) Allarus Shield Captain
3) Bladechampion
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 22:50:05
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2022/01/09 22:55:52
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Torgroll wrote:@Tiberias
Don't think so.
Whats your choice for the Bladechampion if you want him to rumble the house?
I'm a bit unsure about my HQ choices, what do you guys think?
Shadowkeeper:
1) Trajann
2) Allarus Shield Captain
3) Bladechampion
Right bladechampion: imo there are two very potent builds:
First one is emperors chosen shield host with both the Auric Paragon and Peerless warrior warlord trait. That build is a total horde blender with his hurricanis profile. 20 attacks with additional mortal wounds on 6s to wound.
Second build is shadowkeepers with the lockwarden and peerless warrior warlord trait. Throw in the Stasis oubilette relic and there is almost no character in the game that wants to tangle with that blade champion. It's insane, especially at 110p.
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2022/01/09 23:10:46
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Mysterious Techpriest
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We're closing in on 240 pages..
And this codex is vastly different from the one before.
So a new thread is in order imo.
I still maintain that captain Murderdeath is a good choice for now. You dont need a Blade Champion when everything is dead due to him first
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Data author for Battlescribe
Found a bug? Join, ask, report:
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2022/01/09 23:39:12
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thairne wrote:We're closing in on 240 pages..
And this codex is vastly different from the one before.
So a new thread is in order imo.
I still maintain that captain Murderdeath is a good choice for now. You dont need a Blade Champion when everything is dead due to him first
Fair point about captain murderdeath, but the blade champion offers more consistency in that regard imo. AP4 and flat 3 dmg is just extremely valuable when you ignore invulns with the shadowkeepers Wl trait. Combine that with rerolling all wounds and MWs on 6s (with the additional peerless warrior Wl trait) for the best raw power against characters in our codex.
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2022/01/09 23:44:58
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
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I still say Trajaaan is an Auto-take at this point. He's superdurable, and more dangerous than anything else we have, and his dual traits are fun. S10 AP4(with the right detachment) and D3 damage, he's pretty beefy. He can also get silly with the Shooting.
What will we call the new thread? Who's volunteering to create it? 1, 2, 3, NOT IT.
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2022/01/09 23:53:35
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Damsel of the Lady
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Can't Trajann take the 'ignore invulnerable WT' too? Since he can pick a second and can benefit from detachments?
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2022/01/09 23:54:37
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Audustum wrote:Can't Trajann take the 'ignore invulnerable WT' too? Since he can pick a second and can benefit from detachments?
No I don't think that's how it works. If you take him as your warlord he gets two warlord traits and those two are fixed.
Edit: which is kinda crazy actually. If you play Trajann and two other characters, you can effectively play a list with 5 warlord traits. Trajann gets 2, you can give your other two characters a warlord trait each and one of those can get one extra with the Victor of the bloodgames strat.
This book is herohammer incarnate.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 23:58:34
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2022/01/10 00:36:41
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Gargantuan Gargant
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Tiberias wrote:Audustum wrote:Can't Trajann take the 'ignore invulnerable WT' too? Since he can pick a second and can benefit from detachments?
No I don't think that's how it works. If you take him as your warlord he gets two warlord traits and those two are fixed.
Edit: which is kinda crazy actually. If you play Trajann and two other characters, you can effectively play a list with 5 warlord traits. Trajann gets 2, you can give your other two characters a warlord trait each and one of those can get one extra with the Victor of the bloodgames strat.
This book is herohammer incarnate.
I'm glad at least that part of the Custodes codex they got right, considering they're all basically an army of born heroes. Nothing like tooled out HQ's basically each one-manning an entire flank against the enemy.
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2022/01/10 01:21:39
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
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xerxeskingofking wrote: The Red Hobbit wrote: cuda1179 wrote:Dang it, dang it, dang it. I was hoping that with the leaked contents of the 30k box that our Contemptor would have gained a weapon option or two. Sadly it did not. We can keep our fingers crossed that they FAQ in the options when the new model arrives.
I must have missed that one, what weapons are being added to the FW Dreads?
None, but the preview showed what appeared to be the plastic contemptor but with a weapons fit not on the plastic kit, implying they were going to add extra guns to non relic contemptor (ie the version we have)
Oh neat, didn't know they were making plastic Contemptors. Well if mine ever break it'll be good to know there's an easier to work with plastic version available.
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