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Since the HH novels started, the Primarchs have been written to be freakishly gigantic.

I'm really not on board with that idea.

While the Primarchs are supposed to be supremely power and fantastic warriors, humans (superhuman or normal) are not orks, we don't have to be freakishly huge to be great warriors.

What do you guys think? Yes, it's already part of the fluff, but surely everyone has something they would like to change.

Primarchs aren't human.

Simple answer is they are not human.

If space marines become abhuman from their genetic enhancement, so are only partially human, the warriors they are based upon that required no genetic enhancement, and were born out of the box that way are not human.

Having said that, I like it in the old Fluff where Primarch's were taller than marines, but not giants that look a tad ridiculous on the table top coming out of land raiders and the like (and in the fluff)... It's stupid enough that marines fit in them, let alone giants. a foot or so taller would have been enough.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Primarchs aren't human.

yes, okay, they are superhuman. semantics aside, I wish you could answer my question

No I'm afraid super human still doesn't define them. To be super human they'd have to be human first. They were never human from the day of their creation. Space Marines were human once but not the primarchs. And sorry about the question - the primarchs as a whole bug me. They are weapons intentionally made op and proved time and again all the up to the HH that they are uncontrollable weapons at that. Even the loyalists are psychopaths by our standards.

Magnus is too much.
Nobody needs such an unfluffy model.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Magnus is too much.
Nobody needs such an unfluffy model.

what does this even mean?
what is so "unfluffy" about him?

 wuestenfux wrote:
Magnus is too much.
Nobody needs such an unfluffy model.

what do you mean by "unfluffy"?

and sorry, I hope you can answer the question

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Magnus is too much.
Nobody needs such an unfluffy model.

what do you mean by "unfluffy"?

and sorry, I hope you can answer the question

A super giant creature as a Primarch?

 ProwlerPC wrote:
No I'm afraid super human still doesn't define them. To be super human they'd have to be human first. They were never human from the day of their creation. Space Marines were human once but not the primarchs. And sorry about the question - the primarchs as a whole bug me. They are weapons intentionally made op and proved time and again all they up to the HH that they are uncontrollable weapons at that. Even the loyalists are psychopaths by our standards.

Super means beyond. They can be built on homo-sapien stock and enhanced to be something more.

But I don't like the idea of the models being so huge. Got the FW Horus recently and am shocked by the size difference. Anything more than that is cartoonish.

He's a Daemon Primarch.
Plus it's been established in the fluff for a few years now that as a Daemon Primarch he can change his size basically at will, since he's now entirely a Warp Entity rather than a mortal creature of flesh and blood.

Well in Magnus''s case he always had the ability to change his size even before becoming a Daemon Primarch. During the Great Crusade he enlarged himself to Titan size and engaged an ork gargant in melee. Not to mention that he was also the largest of all the Primarchs in normal form.

 techsoldaten wrote:


But I don't like the idea of the models being so huge. Got the FW Horus recently and am shocked by the size difference. Anything more than that is cartoonish.

sorry I'm talking fluff-wise

Honestly can't say it bothers me all that much. They are meant to be genetically engineered super creatures.

It's not too much of a stretch to believe the Emperor would make them physically superior to humans.

I don't mind the idea of Primarchs. I do mind the idea that somehow after all of the fighting they've done, none were hit by an orbital bombardment or a Titan's plasma annihilator and destroyed instantly.

If Primarchs were simple strategists and never ran into combat (close combat at that!) we'd have an understanding for why they might survive hundreds if not thousands of years of armed conflict. In some cases that seems to be the case. More often than not (because story, because selling models) these guys are running around getting into way too much stuff.

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:


But I don't like the idea of the models being so huge. Got the FW Horus recently and am shocked by the size difference. Anything more than that is cartoonish.

sorry I'm talking fluff-wise

Same comment applies to both. Cartoonish.

I say this with a bit of science in mind. Proportions do not scale in regards to height. A 10 foot human being would have longer legs and less torso, making them look a little more like a spider. Bigger bodies would more likely look like something out of an early Disney cartoon than the Emperor.

Science and common sense don't really apply to made-up sorcery-powered supermen.

I don't mind the Primarchs being a little bigger than normal Marines to set them apart (and therefore much bigger than normal humans) but their height in the lore is stupid. They should stand taller than the Marines around them, not dwarf them like they are children. I would have them be about 8 feet tall, tall enough that the largest Marines are about their size.

 Elbows wrote:
I do mind the idea that somehow after all of the fighting they've done, none were hit by an orbital bombardment or a Titan's plasma annihilator and destroyed instantly.

Theres was Greater Daemon of Khorn that survived being hit with a orbital.
Primarchs are made of the stuff of Khaos. Why would they be any different.

Because that's dumb.

 General Kroll wrote:
Honestly can't say it bothers me all that much. They are meant to be genetically engineered super creatures.

It's not too much of a stretch to believe the Emperor would make them physically superior to humans.

That size is not superior. I think that is the point of the OP. Ten feet, or even eight feet really, seems like an ungainly clod that doesn't provide anything.

That is from the rudiments of a tasteful or reasonable perspective. I think there is argument to be made for their being fourteen feet tall because they would be greek titans.

but from an initial perspective it seems like they are freaks.

^^
Pretty much (both previous responses). Even though they are uber awesome they are still flesh and blood last I checked.

I really get tired of how space marines keep growing in size because somehow 7' tall wasn't big enough to be imposing?

pelicaniforce wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:
Honestly can't say it bothers me all that much. They are meant to be genetically engineered super creatures.

It's not too much of a stretch to believe the Emperor would make them physically superior to humans.

That size is not superior. I think that is the point of the OP. Ten feet, or even eight feet really, seems like an ungainly clod that doesn't provide anything.

That is from the rudiments of a tasteful or reasonable perspective. I think there is argument to be made for their being fourteen feet tall because they would be greek titans.

but from an initial perspective it seems like they are freaks.

I'm pretty sure size would be a very important factor in a lot of combats for the Primarchs. They've never been portrayed as being ungainly, they've always been portrayed as being fully in control of their motor skills, above and beyond those of normal humans.

In some cases it could be a disadvantage sure. But in a lot of situations, they would simply be able to use their bulk to beat down an opponent.

This is before we even get to how imposing this god like giant would be to a normal human. The Emperor wanted these creatures to conquer and then rule the disparate strands of mankind across the galaxy. Simple shock and awe.

As you said Greek Gods.

Maximus Bitch wrote:
Since the HH novels started, the Primarchs have been written to be freakishly gigantic.

I'm really not on board with that idea.

While the Primarchs are supposed to be supremely power and fantastic warriors, humans (superhuman or normal) are not orks, we don't have to be freakishly huge to be great warriors.

What do you guys think? Yes, it's already part of the fluff, but surely everyone has something they would like to change.

I would have preferred the primarchs to be standard marine sized, but then again I'm not into the "primarchs were walking gods" thing. Of course I remember when marines were primarily just mind wiped killing machines...

 wuestenfux wrote:
Magnus is too much.
Nobody needs such an unfluffy model.

you realize that Magnus the Red's mini is of a deamon primrch yeah? there's nothing unfluffy about i. he's got more in common with a blood thirster then a space marine, physicaly speaking, now

Overall it's gotten a little magicky and full of baloney.

 amanita wrote:
^^
Pretty much (both previous responses). Even though they are uber awesome they are still flesh and blood last I checked.

I really get tired of how space marines keep growing in size because somehow 7' tall wasn't big enough to be imposing?

Except that they are not only flesh and blood, they are incredibly powerful warp-crafted souls akin to a greater daemon, inserted into the very best body human biotechnology could produce. That means they all are psykers, even if only latent ones, and therefore their actual power and strength far outmatch what their physical body alone should produce.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Magnus is too much.
Nobody needs such an unfluffy model.

what do you mean by "unfluffy"?

and sorry, I hope you can answer the question

A super giant creature as a Primarch?

He's a Daemon Primarch, and his Epic model from 20+ years ago is bigger than his latest incarnation in relation to normal human beings.

The Daemon Primarchs being huge is fine.

The regular Primarchs being huge is a little silly... largely because they tend to forget about it aside from when it matters to the narrative. They wander about the place as if everyone in the galaxy constructed their doorways to cater for 12-foot-tall superhumans, and only remember to mention any sort of issue when it's someone trying to sit in a Primarch's over-sized chair.

I totally agree with the OP, and think the obsession with size is ridiculous. I almost bought the Guilliman model, until I saw it in person. It was the first Primarch model I saw, and it was foolishly large. I don't want it in my army.

I like my Space Marines at 7ish feet tall, and prefer my Primarchs on the same scale. Otherwise the best defense against Primarchs is tight hallways, and I feel like the Space Marines are being pushed down that route as well. Given that one of their primary roles is boarding spaceships and invading command centers, being giants isn't going to help them.


Magnus is another thing all together. He's a Daemon Primarch, a complete warp mutant whose appearance can be shifted at will. He's completely turned his back on his own humanity, thus, hes a monster.