WHFB Lore: Along the Silver Road - the Journey to Cathay?

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**GrapeApe**

As i continue on with my "lands outside of the Old World" kick.....

Was taking a look at the Super Huge Detailed Map of the Old World found here -> http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow.html

...and a thought occurred to me after re-reading a little of the Border Town expansion to the Mordheim Boardgame....

namely - How is the trip from the Old World to Cathay even possible?"

I mean i understand there's relative safety once a merchant caravan reaches Greasus Goldtooth's kingdom but.......the Darklands...

The Silver Road passes by a Chaos Dwarf Slave Labor Camp for crying out loud!

On a less hysterical note - how often does this trade route get utilized? Have any dignitaries from any of the Kingdoms of the East shown up on an Old World Kingdom or Araby's doorstep or vice-versa?

**Yodhrin**

Grab yourself a copy of the Florin & Lorenzo anthology if you can find it. The second book relates to merchants crossing the Dark Lands, and ties the Ogres into that process nicely(though the Ogres themselves and the titular characters become the main focus as the story goes on).

Basically, it's possible the same way the first merchant treks to the East were for us in the real world - with lots of people & soldiers and an acceptance that most of them won't make it back, but the potential huge profits drive people to make the attempt regardless.

Given the additional dangers of WHF I'd wager most such caravans simply vanish, victims of Hobgoblin tribes, Chaos Dwarf slavers, hungry Ogres, renegade Orc tribes, or merely the environment. It's one of those areas of the lore that isn't really expanded upon all that much(which is the exact reason I always laugh when people say GW had no choice but to kill WHF and do AoS because WHF had nothing new left in it - 2/3 of the world was barely even described, and less than half of the rest was fully detailed).

On your last point, I can't for the life of me recall the context or the details, but I could swear one of the WHF novels features a Cathayan official(or at least, something pretending to be one having killed the real bloke). How he got to the Old World I can't remember.

**reds8n**

A story entitled The Voyage of Yin-Tuan to Lustria, presented in White Dwarf 280, relates the history of a Cathayan expedition to the Southlands and being decimated by two hurricanes sent by the Slann, conjured on the strength of an ancient prophecy (an event similar to the real world Kamikaze that destroyed a Mongol Invasion of Japan). Yin-Tuan, the narrator, speaks of Cathay being ruled by an 'Emperor Wu'. The captain also bears a tattoo of 'the Imperial Dragon' which the Lizardmen mistake to be an image of their god Sotek, saving him from ritual sacrifice. The text implies the existence of multiple Cathayan ruling dynasties, historically, explaining that at this period Cathay was ruled by the Wu dynasty. The voyage of Yin-Tuan also mentions the use by the Cathayan military of lacquered hide shields, and an elite guard of the Emperor who sport tiger pelts.
Jack Yeovil's Beasts in Velvet and Silver Nails feature the character of Dien Ch’ing, a sorcerer of Tzeentch ('Lord Tsien-Tsin') who was driven out of Cathay. In order to bring about the ruin of the Old World he masquerades as the Cathayan ambassador to the Empire. Among his talents is the ability to summon his ancestors and elementals of earth, fire, wind, water and wood. The addition of the fifth ‘wood’ elemental bemuses one of the Old World characters who is only used to four elements. Dien Ch’ing makes constant references to the grudge he has against the ‘Monkey-King’, presumably the current ruler of Cathay. He is frequently referred to, not as being 'Cathayan', but a 'Celestial'
The Estragon's Island campaign (which was published in White Dwarf 297) featured several mystical objects of Cathayan origin along with a character (Ty Chan'Cho) who was presumably Cathayan.
According to another story, when the vampires fled from Lahmia after their defeat, many went north, yet reference is also made to a vampire who travelled east. A conspiracy theory of sorts has developed that the Immortal Dragon Emperor of Cathay is none other than this vampire.

http://sj1wfb.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/red-thirst.html

**GrapeApe**

Just wanted to thank you and reds8n for the responses. They have been most informative.

Well Florin and Lorenzo are now on the top of my list it seems!

Yodhrin wrote:

Given the additional dangers of WHF I'd wager most such caravans simply vanish, victims of Hobgoblin tribes, Chaos Dwarf slavers, hungry Ogres, renegade Orc tribes, or merely the environment. It's one of those areas of the lore that isn't really expanded upon all that much(which is the exact reason I always laugh when people say GW had no choice but to kill WHF and do AoS because WHF had nothing new left in it - 2/3 of the world was barely even described, and less than half of the rest was fully detailed).

Hey i'm hardly a fan of EndTimes/AoS either, but i at least sales-wise, from what i understand, AoS is doing better than WHF has done in a long time.....guess people like their Space Mar- i mean Stormcast Eternals.

.....not that i'm happy about it of course.

Literally killed my favorite low fantasy setting.

There is so much left unexplored in the Old World and the World Beyond, so many mysteries that are sadly going to remain just dangling plot points that never get resolved.. :sigh:

But since i've got your attention Yodhrin, and you seem to be a man in the know when it comes to the Black Library books......

....Ever see anything in your reading related to the the Kingdom of Ind?

Except to a very tiny reference to a magic item looted from the place (in Ogre Kingdoms), and a rather generic "BEASTMEN here" from the Beastman codex, and another "Elf Fortress Here" from the Elves Codex... There doesn't seem to be much in terms of references....

**Yodhrin**

Re AoS/WHF ending - I shouldn't have brought that up sorry, I'll just get into a rant if we keep talking about that

As for Ind, AFAIK the only other BL material on the subject is a short prologue in the novel "Day of the Daemon" featuring that book's main character doing an Indiana Jones-style artifact raid on a temple there, complete with fancy tiger-based Beastmen. There might be something in one of the old WHFRP sourcebooks, my collection of those is much less extensive so I can't say for sure.

**reds8n**

Not really.

They never really got around to doing much outside of ~~Europe~~ err the Old World and Lustria.

Something to do with tiger headed Beastmen I seem to recall being mentioned elsewhere.....

.. maybe in one of the Long Gotrek & felix books ..?

Or one of the WD articles as mentioned above.

Bit close to :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakshasa_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

possibly.

If you google around there was.... are ..? ... some fan supplements knocking about

**GrapeApe**

Yodhrin wrote:
Re AoS/WHF ending - I shouldn't have brought that up sorry, I'll just get into a rant if we keep talking about that

As for Ind, AFAIK the only other BL material on the subject is a short prologue in the novel "Day of the Daemon" featuring that book's main character doing an Indiana Jones-style artifact raid on a temple there, complete with fancy tiger-based Beastmen. There might be something in one of the old WHFRP sourcebooks, my collection of those is much less extensive so I can't say for sure.

Well that crosses Ind off my list as well. Thanks for your help both of you!

All that's left is Cathay which we've already alluded to view Genevieve, Florin, etc.

**Xathrodox86**

At least Ind had a bit of a backstory. Kuresh never got anything, except of a mark on the world's map. Nippon aswell. Tome of Corruption for WFRP 2nd edition had a bit of info on Beastmen from Ind - they are apparently venerated by the locals. They won't even touch them, heck, they won't defend themselves in case of an attack from the beasts.

**Just Tony**

Yodhrin wrote:
Re AoS/WHF ending - I shouldn't have brought that up sorry, I'll just get into a rant if we keep talking about that

As for Ind, AFAIK the only other BL material on the subject is a short prologue in the novel "Day of the Daemon" featuring that book's main character doing an Indiana Jones-style artifact raid on a temple there, complete with fancy tiger-based Beastmen. There might be something in one of the old WHFRP sourcebooks, my collection of those is much less extensive so I can't say for sure.

I would buy Tiger headed Beastmen so hard. They really needed an Ind list. I guess I could have used combined Chaos books in 6th, but the models weren't there.

**GrapeApe**

Xathrodox86 wrote:
At least Ind had a bit of a backstory. Kuresh never got anything, except of a mark on the world's map. Nippon aswell. Tome of Corruption for WFRP 2nd edition had a bit of info on Beastmen from Ind - they are apparently venerated by the locals. They won't even touch them, heck, they won't defend themselves in case of an attack from the beasts.

Regarding Nippon, the only time i've ever seen anything written about Nippon is a small tidbit from End Times and the Genevieve Dieudonné novels because Genevieve, being a vampire and living so long, apparently has had a lot of time to travel the world and go all the way to Nippon....

Can't think of anything regarding Kuresh......

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Tony wrote:
Yodhrin wrote:
Re AoS/WHF ending - I shouldn't have brought that up sorry, I'll just get into a rant if we keep talking about that

As for Ind, AFAIK the only other BL material on the subject is a short prologue in the novel "Day of the Daemon" featuring that book's main character doing an Indiana Jones-style artifact raid on a temple there, complete with fancy tiger-based Beastmen. There might be something in one of the old WHFRP sourcebooks, my collection of those is much less extensive so I can't say for sure.

I would buy Tiger headed Beastmen so hard. They really needed an Ind list. I guess I could have used combined Chaos books in 6th, but the models weren't there.

Well, Rakshasa are an element native to Indian lore... whenever i think of Tiger-headed Beastmen though, i'm reminded of an old piece of art from a D&D product from way back when..