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...since they no longer play by the Ethereals' rules.

Each Caste has their own planet, so probably not.

Animus wrote:
Each Caste has their own planet, so probably not.

I guess that was just for planet variation, for marketing purposes.

Imagine some air castes flying around and creating their own Mile High Club

Miscegenation is a very, very loaded term.

FSE have more planets than those four. I don't believe whether it's specifically stated if interbreeding is allowed.
Is interbreeding between Tau castes even possible? They appear to be in the early stages of speciation. I'd be interested to see some images of Tau evolution. Are they moving closer to being one species, or further away? Apparently Air Caste used to have wings, after all..

I'd think that the Tau of the Enclaves would still value the Caste system and not miscegenate just because it's not practical even if it's possible at all.

Why contaminate the genetics of the well-optimised Earth-Caste with Air-Caste DNA? Surely the inter-bread offspring would suit neither Caste's organisation and so end up a useless outcast, probably to be executed because it can't contribute in a meaningful way to either Caste's ideal for the Greater Good.

That's not MY cultcha n' heritage....is that YAAAW cultcha n' heritaaage?

Yeah I'd say that the ability for Tau castes to interbreed might be fairly limited at this stage, given the genetic variation between them.

Question for the geneticists/evolutionary biologists. How long would it typically take for two sub-species to become genetically distinct enough to not produce viable offspring? Assuming that the reproductive restrictions between castes began with the emergence of the Ethereals in 791.M36, that gives us ~4000-5000 years of genetic isolation which sounds to me a sufficient window for speciation to occur under such intense selective breeding.

However, I seem to remember reading that prior to the coming of the ethereals, the proto-air caste either flew or glided on membranous wings which have since disappeared, suggesting that the Tau may be becoming less genetically distinct. However, I don't think that premise is supported given each caste's genetic isolation so it's likely a case of convergent evolution.

Personally, I think that the situation is much closer to how hominids looked during the late Pleistocene. with mutliple species of the same Family co-existing, like Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens. Except, in the case of the Tau, one species didn't end up wiping out the others (although by the sounds of their fluff they came close).

So, really, the Tau Empire is likely a combined empire of four different species united by a fifth. It could be less though, if the Fire Caste, Water Caste and/or Earth Caste are genetically similar enough to be classified as the same species.

So, the Fire Caste are probably Space Neanderthals! At least compared to the more technologically adept, but physically less robust Earth Caste.

If it moves, theyre probably going to get some. Whether its got 2 legs or 4.
Seems to have worked with humans.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Yeah I'd say that the ability for Tau castes to interbreed might be fairly limited at this stage, given the genetic variation between them.

Question for the geneticists/evolutionary biologists. How long would it typically take for two sub-species to become genetically distinct enough to not produce viable offspring? Assuming that the reproductive restrictions between castes began with the emergence of the Ethereals in 791.M36, that gives us ~4000-5000 years of genetic isolation which sounds to me a sufficient window for speciation to occur under such intense selective breeding.

However, I seem to remember reading that prior to the coming of the ethereals, the proto-air caste either flew or glided on membranous wings which have since disappeared, suggesting that the Tau may be becoming less genetically distinct. However, I don't think that premise is supported given each caste's genetic isolation so it's likely a case of convergent evolution.

Personally, I think that the situation is much closer to how hominids looked during the late Pleistocene. with mutliple species of the same Family co-existing, like Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens. Except, in the case of the Tau, one species didn't end up wiping out the others (although by the sounds of their fluff they came close).

So, really, the Tau Empire is likely a combined empire of four different species united by a fifth. It could be less though, if the Fire Caste, Water Caste and/or Earth Caste are genetically similar enough to be classified as the same species.

So, the Fire Caste are probably Space Neanderthals! At least compared to the more technologically adept, but physically less robust Earth Caste.

If I remember correctly it takes quite a long time with natural selection, close to the millions. Tau might be a tricky situation though. Some animals are close enough to successfully breed with each other, but the children are infertile. Hybrids like mules, ligers or zorses, they're close, but not close enough.

Another factor is artificial selection. Genetic drift in nature is not always an abrupt event but more of a gradual separation of two groups, which is why it's so slow. The Tau caste system, as far as we know, is firmly adhered to so genetic drift may happen on a much smaller scale of time. On the other hand, artificial selection as far we've seen is mostly aesthetic; and as different as pets or livestock may be from each other, most animal can still breed within their respective groups.

So best case scenario, there could be whole genetic lines of caste bastards. Worse case scenario is that a couple would have an infertile child and the ethereals don't have to worry about a thing.

Yeah I remember reading a New Scientist article a while back about some common misconceptions of evolution, one of them being that it takes millions of years to have an effect. Given the right selective pressures, it's been shown to happen relatively rapidly.

I think you're absolutely right that the situation with the Tau is probably closer to artificial selection rather than natural selection. Either that or equivalent to a species being split between isolated islands, where the populations are prevented from inter-breeding.

I wouldn't put it past the Ethereals to practice genuine artificial selection on the various castes either...

Saying that, your example of domestic pets and livestock does demonstrate that a species can be fantastically physically disparate while still being able to produce viable offspring.

I'd agree that you'd either end up with a significant half-breed population that the Ethereals would be careful to exterminate before it grew, or a few infertile hybrids that would be easily hunted down by the Ethereals' secret police (come on, they definitely have secret police, even if we haven't heard of them yet...).

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
That's not MY cultcha n' heritage....is that YAAAW cultcha n' heritaaage?

You need to grab the URL of the actual image file (i.e. click the "view image" button) for that to work:

Ace From Outer Space wrote:
Miscegenation is a very, very loaded term.

we're talking about fictional aliens here, so I think it's okay.

also, I think it's the proper term to use in this context too.

I don't see why they wouldn't be able to reproduce with one another.
Look at dogs: they are soooo differents from race to race and can still have viable offspring

But I don't think they do it either. As stated above, it has no interest. They probably value their differences, as they have a clear purpose.
Remember: Miscegenation destroy diversity.

 godardc wrote:
I don't see why they wouldn't be able to reproduce with one another.
Look at dogs: they are soooo differents from race to race and can still have viable offspring

But I don't think they do it either. As stated above, it has no interest. They probably value their differences, as they have a clear purpose.
Remember: Miscegenation destroy diversity.

tau need diversity?