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due to the other thread getting off tracked...
https://www.gofundme.com/chaos-dwarfs-struggle-vs-btp

Here is the link to the campaigna s well as the update on BTP.



-=Edit=- I clarified the thread title a bit for those not familiar with this. - Lorek

I hope that this goes well for you - it is really annoying that after BTP was told to pay up, they failed to follow through.

A link to the original thread, from when the mess first started getting aired.

The Auld Grump

Just wow...

beowulfhunter wrote:
Just wow...

Blue Table has a history, I am afraid - the first that I ever heard of them was during the infamous Eldar Titan/Tau Terrain Trade Incident (a trade of an out of production Armorcast Eldar Titan for some Tau terrain... and the terrain that was sent in return was amazingly bad). By the time the terrain arrived, BTP had already sold off the Titan, if I recall properly.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

beowulfhunter wrote:
Just wow...

Blue Table has a history, I am afraid - the first that I ever heard of them was during the infamous Eldar Titan/Tau Terrain Trade Incident (a trade of an out of production Armorcast Eldar Titan for some Tau terrain... and the terrain that was sent in return was amazingly bad). By the time the terrain arrived, BTP had already sold off the Titan, if I recall properly.

The Auld Grump

I think I even remember the video they put up advertising it.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

beowulfhunter wrote:
Just wow...

Blue Table has a history, I am afraid - the first that I ever heard of them was during the infamous Eldar Titan/Tau Terrain Trade Incident (a trade of an out of production Armorcast Eldar Titan for some Tau terrain... and the terrain that was sent in return was amazingly bad). By the time the terrain arrived, BTP had already sold off the Titan, if I recall properly.

The Auld Grump

That was fething terrifying. It was sold and mailed before he even received the terrain

I wish you all the best? Any orders from court ordering them to pay up on thier botched job?

Yes, which BTP have not been paying. Which means the next course of action is to have the court place a lien on BTP's assets and actually force the restitution. That of course costs lawyer fees, which is what Tenebre's gofundme is for.

I think it is time just to drop it honestly. If the guy is living in his shop and divorced he has nothing to give. At this point karma might come back and bite you in the arse. What happens sucks but beating a dead horse gets ya no where.

It is kinda one of the risks you face letting someone do this type of stuff. It is one of those artistic things, everyone has their own point of view. It sucks but it is a risk.

Do you really need legal representation if a Court has ordered they cough up?

In the UK, you'd just take your Court Order and get a Bailiff on them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do you really need legal representation if a Court has ordered they cough up?

In the UK, you'd just take your Court Order and get a Bailiff on them.

In the US, you need a bank roll at least to get anywhere initially

Yep, and unless you are going after a multi-billion dollar company for something legitimate, lawyers won't do anything up front without serious money.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think it is time just to drop it honestly. If the guy is living in his shop and divorced he has nothing to give. At this point karma might come back and bite you in the arse. What happens sucks but beating a dead horse gets ya no where.

It is kinda one of the risks you face letting someone do this type of stuff. It is one of those artistic things, everyone has their own point of view. It sucks but it is a risk.

If he's in his shop he more than likely has assets there, a PC and a webcam for example.

A dead horse is still worth something, even as glue.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do you really need legal representation if a Court has ordered they cough up?

In the UK, you'd just take your Court Order and get a Bailiff on them.

I thought that the Court appoint the Bailiff, in which case they take their fee directly from recovered assets and payments from the debtor.

I don't know that you can appoint your own Bailiff.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think it is time just to drop it honestly. If the guy is living in his shop and divorced he has nothing to give. At this point karma might come back and bite you in the arse. What happens sucks but beating a dead horse gets ya no where.

Suggesting that Tenebre will incur some magical wrath upon himself by seeking his dues is silly. He's doing nothing wrong, he's completely in the right as a victim seeking restitution. Shaun Gately has plenty to give and not only should he do so legally but also morally. Just because he's possibly not having happy fun times doesn't mean he gets to shirk his debts and responsibilities. If I was to rob someone's home today and receive an unrelated assault tomorrow then I wouldn't expect to go on my merry way without repercussion of my actions. We don't live in a magical fantasy world where supernatural powers decide our fortunes.

OgreChubbs wrote:
It is kinda one of the risks you face letting someone do this type of stuff. It is one of those artistic things, everyone has their own point of view. It sucks but it is a risk.

Actually it's not just a matter of opinion or a point of view. He was legally wronged as proven by the decision of the court. He is entitled to his restitution by law.

I haven't been able to see the photos anywhere, can anyone help me out?

I'm really really sorry to hear about that man, I'll throw some money into the GFM once I get paid

Photos of?

The original BTP army that they painted.

tenebre, I really want to feel sorry for you man but I cant.

Before anyone jumps down my throat let me list off the events:

tenebre made a video and had a valid complaint
the community rallied around him
63 pages of support
multiple companies come to your aid and offer you support
Videos that showed you truly cared about what had happened
BTP offers you many suggestions
You take none of them (rightly so)
After some time you reach a agreement and have to take down the videos as part of the agreement

Two years pass:

Now your asking for more money because BTP hasnt come through on their end of the deal.

More money, more time, more videos. Same results.

Im sorry. Its a dead horse at this point

No swampy.

If you had watched the video and followed through with everything, you'd know that they settled in court, and Gately has not been paying his agreed-upon settlement. And has, in fact, been intentionally hiding from being served.

Don't try to make them into the victims here.

 curran12 wrote:
No swampy.

If you had watched the video and followed through with everything, you'd know that they settled in court, and Gately has not been paying his agreed-upon settlement. And has, in fact, been intentionally hiding from being served.

Don't try to make them into the victims here.

I was there from the beginning. I was there for all of it. I agree Gately is in the wrong. Im just saying asking for more money at this point is leaving a bad taste in MY mouth. Gately is in the wrong and if he is hiding then the law should handle it. Take it or leave it. Its just my 2 cents Curran12.

And that's exactly what this GFM is for. Unfortunately, a cop can't be used for something like this. Legally, Gately needs to be served before any monetary or asset seizure can happen, and if he is constantly avoiding that, it costs tenebre. He isn't asking for more money like you say.

 swampyturtle wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
No swampy.

If you had watched the video and followed through with everything, you'd know that they settled in court, and Gately has not been paying his agreed-upon settlement. And has, in fact, been intentionally hiding from being served.

Don't try to make them into the victims here.

I was there from the beginning. I was there for all of it. I agree Gately is in the wrong. Im just saying asking for more money at this point is leaving a bad taste in MY mouth. Gately is in the wrong and if he is hiding then the law should handle it. Take it or leave it. Its just my 2 cents Curran12.

As I recall, Ten had all but given up because he couldn't afford to chase this any more. It was the community that asked him to put up a go fund me page because people want to see justice served. It also serves us all by setting a precedent against this happening to anyone else.

The only way to handle this is to pay a lawyer to go through the necessary processes to make BTP pay. That costs a lot of money and some concerned individuals are willing to put something towards it.


I don't know what's wrong with some people that want to make Ten appear to be at fault here. If you don't want to help and are desperate to hear yourself speak then you can always wish him the best of luck and move on with your life. Being negative on Ten doesn't help anyone apart from BTP.

 Casey's Law wrote:

 swampyturtle wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
No swampy.

If you had watched the video and followed through with everything, you'd know that they settled in court, and Gately has not been paying his agreed-upon settlement. And has, in fact, been intentionally hiding from being served.

Don't try to make them into the victims here.

I was there from the beginning. I was there for all of it. I agree Gately is in the wrong. Im just saying asking for more money at this point is leaving a bad taste in MY mouth. Gately is in the wrong and if he is hiding then the law should handle it. Take it or leave it. Its just my 2 cents Curran12.

As I recall, Ten had all but given up because he couldn't afford to chase this any more. It was the community that asked him to put up a go fund me page because people want to see justice served. It also serves us all by setting a precedent against this happening to anyone else.

The only way to handle this is to pay a lawyer to go through the necessary processes to make BTP pay. That costs a lot of money and some concerned individuals are willing to put something towards it.


I don't know what's wrong with some people that want to make Ten appear to be at fault here. If you don't want to help and are desperate to hear yourself speak then you can always wish him the best of luck and move on with your life. Being negative on Ten doesn't help anyone apart from BTP.

Fair enough. I put alot of time and emotion into the first time around. This time Im not. Never said Ten was at fault. Never felt Ten was at fault. If you want me to disappear however I will.

I feel there is a more important aspect to having the Go Fund Me to move this forward against Blue Table Painting: Putting the nails in the coffin for the company to help prevent further people from getting ripped off by BTP.

From the Chaos Dwarves; to the Tau Terrain; to I'm sure several other publicized events - there are plenty of examples of BTP producing sub-par work that can be found with an internet search, but only if you know where to look and what to look for. A quick Google of "Blue Table Painting" doesn't really have anything overtly negatively titled about the company until page 3, and it's mixed in with several other links that praise BTP, and they range from semi-recent to almost a decade ago. For someone not overly involved in the online community, it may seem like BTP is a decent service to use.

"They've been in business for over a decade. I'm sure there have been a few bad jobs done in that time, but they must be doing something right if they are still operating for this long."

I rather view this as a means to do a service to the gaming community and stop people from getting screwed in the future.

I currently have a project with BTP. Shawn asked some previous customers to help him out (my words) and give his service another shot.

I sent a bunch of primarks and ad mech in Oct and a couple of thousands of dollars. I got the FW stuff back, which looks fine. But the ad mech is months over due.

I was under the impression that Ten got his stuff repainted by another studio (Frontline maybe?). Did that not happen?

I understand the frustration and wanting vengeance.

Yes, Ten got his stuff repainted, but that does not absolve BTP for failing to deliver on its contract. The repainting was a result of a tremendously good community, and Tenebre had to get to the point of lawyers and court work to settle the dispute with BTP. This is not a matter of 'vengeance', saying that undercuts what BTP has done and (why people do this I don't know) paints tenebre as the aggressor in this.

Also, why the hell did you trust BTP?

Chill out, guy.

I've spent maybe $40k with BTP over the years. Generally they did fine by me. Much better than painted figs...

BTP took a bunch of my FW models to adepticon and broke them (and fixed them). Took BTP around a year to do my IG which was supposed to take 2 months. Now there is the current project.

Shawn tried to run a painting service as a business. He didn't do a great job at it. FLG seems to be doing a good job at running a painting service, so it can be done.

It is about vengeance. That guy got his models painted (I'm guessing he is happy with them now) and won a judgement against BTP.

The USA legal system doesn't work like how it is shown on TV. A judgement is one thing and enforcing it is another.

Even enforcing it beyond a surface level will likely cost way more than the painting for the dwarves cost.

Let's say his lawyer is $100/hour. Each full day in court is around $1k. Trial prep usually takes a day. So, this guy is in the hole maybe $2 to 4k to enforce a judgement, which likely cost him a couple of thousands of dollars. It doesn't take much to eclipse the $ he spent on the dwarves. So, yeah guy, that is vengeance.

Shawn lost and should "do the right thing" but he is a business man and he is trying to keep his studio going. When I sent him my models in late 2016, I sent them to the studio's address, which isn't BTP's address anymore. So, he isn't in the space anymore. In other words, he likely doesn't have much in the way of assets. Even if the enforcement happens, BTP might not actually have anything Ten can take and sell / have sold.

evancich wrote:
It doesn't take much to eclipse the $ he spent on the dwarves. So, yeah guy, that is vengeance.

What? Just because he's spending more it's not worth the cost/sullies his motives? He felt like the service he got wasn't up to par, and decided to take it to court. Shawn settled, but won't keep his end of the settlement (after paying some amount). I don't think Ten is unjustified, especially considering it was Shawn who agreed to settle.

evancich wrote:
Shawn lost and should "do the right thing" but he is a business man and he is trying to keep his studio going. When I sent him my models in late 2016, I sent them to the studio's address, which isn't BTP's address anymore. So, he isn't in the space anymore. In other words, he likely doesn't have much in the way of assets. Even if the enforcement happens, BTP might not actually have anything Ten can take and sell / have sold.

It's not like he even lost, he agreed to pay and backed out of it. And of course his studio is hitting tough times, stuff like this is an example of bad business practices, which should rightfully reflect in less business.

As for why you'd send your models there (especially after you relate how late stuff got/mishandling of your minis) is beyond me, but it's your call, ultimately. Either way, this entire situation really doesn't reflect well on Shawn.

 swampyturtle wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
No swampy.

If you had watched the video and followed through with everything, you'd know that they settled in court, and Gately has not been paying his agreed-upon settlement. And has, in fact, been intentionally hiding from being served.

Don't try to make them into the victims here.

I was there from the beginning. I was there for all of it. I agree Gately is in the wrong. Im just saying asking for more money at this point is leaving a bad taste in MY mouth. Gately is in the wrong and if he is hiding then the law should handle it. Take it or leave it. Its just my 2 cents Curran12.

But the law is NOT handling it. Tenebre has to go to court again to enforce the original judgement.

evancich wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Yes, Ten got his stuff repainted, but that does not absolve BTP for failing to deliver on its contract. The repainting was a result of a tremendously good community, and Tenebre had to get to the point of lawyers and court work to settle the dispute with BTP. This is not a matter of 'vengeance', saying that undercuts what BTP has done and (why people do this I don't know) paints tenebre as the aggressor in this.

Also, why the hell did you trust BTP?

Chill out, guy.

Yeh curran, chill out. Why do you need to be so reasonable as to logically lay out a coherent response?


I can't even with this. If I didn't know they couldn't afford it then I'd be calling out BTP and/or Shaun Gately for paying these guys to white knight. It's pretty disgusting that anyone would want to paint Ten as the bad guy in this, their motives are lost on me.