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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Hello all!

I have recently been shown this game at my local game store. As a longtime 40k player, the streamlined nature of the game is very appealing to me, and I'm waiting for some Perry Miniatures models to come in so I can build my own army and dive in! I was hoping, though, that I could get a few pointers/answers to my newbish questions.

1: Are there any official (or unofficial) limits to your army's construction, other than the one given in the rules (troop/artillery/monster/hero limit per horde/regiment). I think I stumbled on something saying there were some tournament rules where you could only have 3 repeats of a certain type of monster/artillery, but I'm not sure if that's common, or just something that was a part of just one tournament.

2: Honestly, how worth it are troops? They seem awfully squishy, without many attacks, but then again, I imagine an army of hordes is rather small, unit wise, and would have problems being outmaneuvered/flanked easily.

3: I intend to play a Kingdoms of Men army. Mostly pike men, crossbowmen, arquebusiers, foot guard, and war elephants (the models I intend to use for Beasts of War). Any tips from anyone that plays KoM often?

4: I've noticed that ranged units tend to be pricy for only hitting on 5s. Coming from 40k (where shooting is king), it seems that shooting units are a bit underwhelming in this game. What are the best uses for ranged units? Would it be better to have a more melee heavy list vs. ranged heavy, or are both viable?

Sorry for all the questions, but thank you for reading!

The Eye of Night- Psst! Oi, git! Wanna buy sum waagh?
Sgt. Vanden- Oh sweet lord I just googled it...
Bobthehero-*laughs in hotshot volley rifle*  
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






Welcome! Since I don't know enough about the tournament scene, I'll let someone else answer that.

2. The utility of Troops varies. Sometimes they are useful as a speed-bump or fast flanker (Gargoyles are an example of this for Abyssals and Abyssal Dwarfs as they Fly and are Sp 10"). If one has Nimble light cav they can be useful to screen more important units. For instance, KoM have Mounted Scouts and Berserkers. You can use the former to screen the latter so they can close despite the vunerability of De 3+. Also, with Missile units I prefer to take mulitple Troops instead of regiments or larger, as the # of Attacks falls off sharply.

3. Have only played them once, against Basileans. They won, although I don't know if I or the army can take the credit as my opponent made some mistakes. I like the heavy Pike block: I took a Horde of them with Chant of Hate, a Spear Regt, a regt of Knights with Blessing gf the Gods, 2 Troops of Bowmen, an Army Standard Bearer on horse, and two Wizards, both with Heal and one was mounted. Its 1000pts exactly. Regardless of how you build your army, make sure to take at least one source of Inspiring to get Nerve rerolls.

4. Missile attacks do seem weak in this game (other than for Elves, who have Ra 4+ and Elite). However, I've not tried a Missile-heavy army yet, which may change when I finish my Dwarf army. Still, I think one should have some ranged attack units or War Engines to keep the opponent honest. Otherwise, enemy Wizards and fast but light De units can go wherever they like. If they are in danger of being picked off by ranged attacks, they have to manuever cautiously.

Incidentally, you might want to take a look at Uncharted Empires. It has two alternate human armies: the League of Rhodia which is like the old WHFB Empire army, and the Brotherhood, which is like the WHFB Brettonnian army. Alternately, there is Kings of War Historical, which has a variety of (very loosely) historical armies that can be used in KoW. There is also a Mythological section to give historical armies some help against pure Fantasy armies. Since you are using Perry Bros. miniatures, the historical option is an easy one for you. (Indeed, I thought about getting the Perry European Mercenaries and Swiss heads to make a Heavy Pike Horde, but did not, and bought Abyssal Dwarfs and regular Dwarfs instead.)

 Palleus wrote:
Hello all!

I have recently been shown this game at my local game store. As a longtime 40k player, the streamlined nature of the game is very appealing to me, and I'm waiting for some Perry Miniatures models to come in so I can build my own army and dive in! I was hoping, though, that I could get a few pointers/answers to my newbish questions.

2: Honestly, how worth it are troops? They seem awfully squishy, without many attacks, but then again, I imagine an army of hordes is rather small, unit wise, and would have problems being outmaneuvered/flanked easily.

3: I intend to play a Kingdoms of Men army. Mostly pike men, crossbowmen, arquebusiers, foot guard, and war elephants (the models I intend to use for Beasts of War). Any tips from anyone that plays KoM often?

4: I've noticed that ranged units tend to be pricy for only hitting on 5s. Coming from 40k (where shooting is king), it seems that shooting units are a bit underwhelming in this game. What are the best uses for ranged units? Would it be better to have a more melee heavy list vs. ranged heavy, or are both viable?

Sorry for all the questions, but thank you for reading!

Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
Dropzone Commander: PHR
Kill Team: Deathwatch AdMech Necron

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Welcome! I came to KOW from two decades of WHFB (and a number of years of 40k), and have really enjoyed the game - playing it for sure, but also the hobby aspect, as multibasing + an accepting community makes building up an army really open and fun.

I don't know a ton about KOM, having never faced them, but I can have a shot at your more general questions:

1. Many tournaments limit monsters, war engines and heroes to no more than three of the same entry - so for example ballistas for you would effectively be 0-3. This is part of what is currently called 'Clash of Kings' comp, named after a major KOW tournament, which includes a few other changes (flyers lose fly when disordered, etc.), and there's actually a new book for competitive play coming out in late Feb that extends these tournament comps - called, easily enough, Clash of Kings. It includes some errata to buff up weaker armies (Salamanders, Trident Realms, Orcs) and nerf a few stronger units (a few Undead characters, some Night Stalker units), and also will be removing three items (+1DEF armor, 5+ regen talisman, +1 to shooting brew) and adding in 10 more, along with some new spells. In addition, shooting attaks that hit on 4+ all the time will now hit on 5+ against units in cover. I'm pretty sure KOM aren't affected too much by many of these changes? And aren't receiving errata'd units of their own.

2. To me troops are there for chaff duties - screening, redirecting, objective grabbing, deployment spam, and so on. That or shooting, as Hamster enumerates.

3. Got nothing, though I've read some good articles / threads by KOM players. Have you looked into the League of Rhordia list for an alternative humans list? It's technically the halfling army, but is often used to rep Empire armies from WHFB, as it has a few more fantastical elements than KOM does. Though with Perry minis it sounds like KOM is the place to be for your lads

4. There is a strong anti-shooting sentiment amongst a lot of KOW players (which is totally a holdover from many of us being WHFB players), and I feel like that includes the designers of the game, especially given the proposed changes in the new Clash book. While heavy shooting has totally been a thing competitively, it has revolved around combos of magic items that give shooting benefits on shooting hordes bane-chanted for extra piercing, or has relied upon shooting that auto-hits on 4+ (breath weapons and magical attaks). Both of these setups are being hit by the coming changes, much to the chagrin of a lot of tournament builds, and there is a general upswing in the amount of terrain being suggested, which likewise hurts shooting of all kinds.

That said, I agree with Hams that you generally want some kind of shooting, I think especially as a more combined arms army like KOM, to be able to engage at range and play in more phases of the game, unless you want to go for speed and avoid your slower, grindier elements? A truism of KOW is that 'every wound matters', and even minimal shooting can plink in those wounds you need to pop a unit down the road, kill off chaff (who can often be routed with just a few wounds and a lucky roll), or finish a heavily wounded unit late game with a single wound, as that's all you need to roll a nerve check.

I remember reading some number crunching when it came to KOM shooting, and I'm pretty certain Arquebusiers came out on top at most all levels, especially now that innate piercing is more important (as it's harder for bane-chant to add it with Clash comp). The breakdown might have been on this blog, which either way has some good KOM content from a general interested in competency rather than flatout competitiveness >> http://regnumaeternum.blogspot.com/

EDIT: If you don't already know about it, http://kow2.easyarmy.com/ is your new friend

EDIT2: You might dig around the Mantic KOM sub-forum if you are looking for specific answers? https://www.mantic.club/forum/kings-of-war/kingdoms-of-man

- Salvage

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/24 16:18:36


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Thanks for the responses, guys!

1: So just 3 monsters for tournaments? Ok, then. So I'll probably just be getting three elephants As far as the changes go, I don't think any of that really affects KoM much either. So, phew!

2: Thanks for the ideas. I was thinking of putting the crossbow guys I'm getting together into troops, seeing as regiment only takes them from 8 attacks to 10. Hopefully I'll get some hits! (Then again, I play Orks in 40k, so I'm not too used to hitting what I shoot at )

3: I did forget to say that I planned on having standard bearers. Oops. Seeing as my army rule is turning Inspiring into Very Inspiring, I would think them very important! And thanks for the tactical help, even though KoM aren't your armies.

4: This actually makes me a bit more optimistic about my shooting! Looking at the numbers I was caught thinking to myself "I only hit on 5s? Why are regular men as accurate as a waaaghed up shoota boy?" But the fact that 5s is the standard for shooting makes me feel a lot better about it. I was thinking of trying out a horde of Arquebusiers with a relic (Either the one that lets you turn even when you're "halt"ing, or the one that gives you better range), and putting them on top of a hill as a sort of fire base for my advancing army. Sprinkle in some troops of crossbowmen. And move forward with regiments of pike blocks, elephants, and maybe a foot guard regiment or two. Might be fun? Might die? Just have to remember I can't just shoot though my own units unless the enemy is tall!

Side note: thank you both very much for letting me know about all the other options there too for this kind of army, but I think I like the KoM a bit better. It gives me more of a feeling I'm making my own group, which is exciting! Also, I love the idea of war elephants side by side with pike men, and foot knights, supported by arquebusiers and crossbowmen. Just a fun concept

The Eye of Night- Psst! Oi, git! Wanna buy sum waagh?
Sgt. Vanden- Oh sweet lord I just googled it...
Bobthehero-*laughs in hotshot volley rifle*  
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






The limit of three is for each entry, so you could have three elephants (Beast of war) as well as one or more generals on winged beasts. And armies with more monster entries can have up to three of each.

As you say, shooting on 5+ is the baseline in KoW and note that there's no penalty for shooting at long range so you generally are as accurate as humans were in WHFB. As long as you can manage to get shots off without any modifier it can be very effective. (any penalty really hurt, as taking you from 5+ to 6+ halves your damage output)

Regular shooting has been a bit overshadowed lately by the various attacks that shoot on unmodified 4++ (flame weapons and magic mostly) but the latter will be a affected by cover in the next update compendium, making regular shooting a bit more valid.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/25 01:50:39


   
Made in ca
Grumpy Longbeard





Canada

I recomend having minimun 1 source of inspiring per 500 points.
I would also advise against taking more than 3 of anything rules or no.
More balanced armies do better.
You don't want Jack of all trades, master of none and you can and should favour/be good at something (probably neclecting something as a result), but you need to cover most bases (at least make sure you can compete in all the scenarios in the rulebook). Make sure you do not have a one dimensional army; everything has a weakness, so if you only have one thing a balanced army should have something that can hit your Achilles heel.

All that said, KoM is the army that has the least issue with being balanced.

From playing against KoM:
Heavy pike are a ridiculously good anvil.
Arquebusier hordes with a good item are indeed very dangerous, but it's a lot of eggs in one basket. It only takes one decent cc hero (probably with wings) to shut it down, it usually only gets one (maybe 2) shots off against me.

Edit: by "balanced" I mean has a mix of troops/capabilities, not "worth its points".
In terms of things being worth their points: KoW is hands down the most balanced wargame I know of (didn't say perfect, don't start).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/01/25 10:25:15


Nightstalkers Dwarfs
GASLANDS!
Holy Roman Empire  
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

 Zywus wrote:
The limit of three is for each entry, so you could have three elephants (Beast of war) as well as one or more generals on winged beasts. And armies with more monster entries can have up to three of each.
It's sounding like the new book limits it to two of any one entry at 2000 points? Which actually makes me sad, as it gimps my already gimpy Ratkin build by limiting my Blight Lords

Though I also heard the duplication limits scale with army size, so maybe it's 2 @ 1000, 3 @ 2000, etc?

- Salvage

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/26 18:04:54


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos





life.

Welcome to kings of war. I would recommend uncharted empires, it really adds more variety!

I collect:

Grand alliance death (whole alliance)

Stormcast eternals

Slaves to Darkness - currently Nurgle but may expand to undivided.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Thanks for the responses, all. I'm busy putting together some Perry Miniatures that came in the mail, and watching some KoW battle reports to try to pick up some tactics before I hit the tables.

I am interested, though, in wither the limit will be 2 or 3 for duplication. From what I hear, the new rules will be available on the 24th of February?

The Eye of Night- Psst! Oi, git! Wanna buy sum waagh?
Sgt. Vanden- Oh sweet lord I just googled it...
Bobthehero-*laughs in hotshot volley rifle*  
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






The book is supposed to ship the 24th

The upcoming Adepticon tournament has been given advance knowledge of the book and have included many (all?) of the changes into their tournament rules so that people can plan their armies already to be ready to play the tournament under the CoK supplement rules:
http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2017/2017clashofkingsREV.pdf

Since adepticon's tournament rules have a limit of 3 duplicates I suspect that this will be the limit rather than 2.

That tourney runs at 2250 points tough, so suppose it is possible that there's a limit of 2 duplicates at 2000 or less (though I haven't heard anything about this anywhere else)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/31 22:02:58


   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User






I think it will be 3 at 2000 pts.
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






1999 or less = 2 duplicates max
2000 or more = 3 duplicates max

I could see that.

   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

 Zywus wrote:
1999 or less = 2 duplicates max
2000 or more = 3 duplicates max
Aye, hoping that the two rumors I heard (duplicate limits + scaling army comp by size) are the same thing. Makes sense to me.

- Salvage

KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
 
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