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its the only way to explain how he has lived over 10,000 years since 30k?
   
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As far as I know "Cypher" or "Lord Cypher" was a title that goes back to ancient Caliban and not a personal name. So it could be that the Fallen held up to that tradition and elected a new Cypher every time the old one died (if they're not chaos tainted). Furthermore most of the Fallen were scattered through time and space so it is not necessary that one of them acting in the present timeline has to be 10.000 years old.
There are those Dark Angels related Horus Heresy books that may be taken up by the new story advancements, so they might be of interest for you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/05 10:36:44


 
   
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LightKing wrote:
its the only way to explain how he has lived over 10,000 years since 30k?


I am not sure myself, the fluff will of course explain it at some point - note to self must bother to read up what's happening!

It would be cool if it was warp power keeping him going, nothing better to slap Tzeentch round the face than with cypher saying 'You didn't see that one coming bird brain!'. Using Chaos powers to fight Chaos powers - Heresy! - Or is it..........
   
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There is a theory that Zahariel became a perpetual when Luther brought him back from the dead. That would account for Cypher's longevity.

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I think Cypher is The Lion.

Get this. Lion El' Johnson goes comatose and gets entombed in the Rock. When that happens all the little Watchers in the Dark show up. Nobody knows why.

Cypher starts running around doing all kinds of stuff. People think hes traitor so they hunt him but he seems to lead them to other traitors or into fights where DA help would be needed and then disappears.

He has the Lions Sword.

He has the Lions Pistol.

Cypher is the psychic manifestation of the Lion while his body lies unconscious.

I would bet money that in Gathering Storm III Cypher goes with Rowboat to see the Big E on the Golden Throne and then kills him so he can be reborn. Next Primarch to be made in plastic for 40k is the Lion.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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General consensus is that Cypher is Zahariel. Interesting theory though.

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There's no guarantee that Cypher is the same person. He could be more like the Dread Pirate Roberts, more a figure than a person.

I also agree with the idea that Cypher could be Lion El' Johnson in disguise or some sort of manifestation of him. There's a reason he bears that sword.

   
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If the Gathering storm part 3 preview is any indication, Cypher(and other fallen) will be fighting along side the GK. While they seem to be relatively pragmatic and open minded towards Xenos and sorcery(its ok as long as there the ones using it), I cant see them turning a blind eye to Chaos taint. So I guess that means that (this)Cypher and his buddies have some how avoided becoming tainted. How he's managed that particular trick is going to be interesting to read.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/05 18:41:42


 
   
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 Lance845 wrote:
I think Cypher is The Lion.

Get this. Lion El' Johnson goes comatose and gets entombed in the Rock. When that happens all the little Watchers in the Dark show up. Nobody knows why.

Cypher starts running around doing all kinds of stuff. People think hes traitor so they hunt him but he seems to lead them to other traitors or into fights where DA help would be needed and then disappears.

He has the Lions Sword.

He has the Lions Pistol.

Cypher is the psychic manifestation of the Lion while his body lies unconscious.

I would bet money that in Gathering Storm III Cypher goes with Rowboat to see the Big E on the Golden Throne and then kills him so he can be reborn. Next Primarch to be made in plastic for 40k is the Lion.


He fights with CSMs. Yeah sounds like the lion to me.

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how is Luther still alive?
   
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LightKing wrote:
how is Luther still alive?


As explained in the Dark Angels Codex, he is kept locked up
deep in the Rock. Probably stasis even.

The issue with Cypher's age is that we simply don't know anything about him. During the HH we had at least two astartes impersonating Cypher, so it could still be Zahariel. It could be anyone, heck, even Farith Redloss. We cannot even assume that it's the same person everytime he shows up.

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The problem with Cypher is stories happen like this:

Guardsman reports squad serg and commissar killed by stray bolt and plasma shot.

Mysterious figure appears and leads the squad to victory against chaos cultists.

That guard squad is then later killed by an Unforgiven chapter.

   
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He is the same guy I think, they just released a little extract from the primarch rising thing telling us who he is. There is no way the would do that then go oh he changed after that. He was givin a mission by his primarch and now we know who he is. Just like they told us who the green knight was before the end.

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OgreChubbs wrote:


The end is ni!!!!!!!


Does that mean that the end is a minor character (well set of characters) from Monthy Python's parody of the Arturian myths?

I'm surprisingly cool with it, as long as it doesn't bring us straight into the eye of terra, 'tis a silly place.
   
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I like the Phantom, The Ghost Who Walks idea. He even uses two guns. Too bad he doesn't look like Billy Zane...or does he.
   
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It isn't like ther are no other "Long lived humans" running about. The siggilite, John grammatica or whatever his name is. Or, he could be multiple folks and just a title / role.

I'm wondering if he's connected to or opposing the cabal.
   
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There's also the possibility that it simply hasn't been 10,000 years for Cypher. We know that the Warp messes with time, and the Fallen were scattered across millennia, etc etc etc. Sightings of Cypher can occur hundreds of years apart, but thanks to Warp time distortion it might only be hours or days for Cypher.
In Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords trilogy, it's mentioned that from the Night Lords perspective the Heresy was only 100 years ago, despite it being 10,000 years in the Imperium's history.

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 Lance845 wrote:
I think Cypher is The Lion.

Get this. Lion El' Johnson goes comatose and gets entombed in the Rock. When that happens all the little Watchers in the Dark show up. Nobody knows why.

Cypher starts running around doing all kinds of stuff. People think hes traitor so they hunt him but he seems to lead them to other traitors or into fights where DA help would be needed and then disappears.

He has the Lions Sword.

He has the Lions Pistol.

Cypher is the psychic manifestation of the Lion while his body lies unconscious.

I would bet money that in Gathering Storm III Cypher goes with Rowboat to see the Big E on the Golden Throne and then kills him so he can be reborn. Next Primarch to be made in plastic for 40k is the Lion.


There is however the fact that Cypher is like 3 heads short of being the same size of a primarch. Second, i think Roboute would have recognised his brother as, well, his brother pressing on him the urgence of leading the Dark Angels for the better for the Imperium? Which he hasnt...

No, i have to disagree here. The Lion is still asleep and will awaken sometime soon, as Luther has been telling for a while now.

As for Cypher, i hope it is Zahariel or someone we know from the Horus heresy age. But, he could be almost anyone, as that is the whole meaning behind Cypher


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The last known bearer of the Lion Sword was Holguin, Commander of the Deathwing during the HH. In Angels of Caliban, he has the broken shards with him, as Lion commanded him to "take care of this," and his intention was to see that it be reforged.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Holguin

There's actually an audio drama where Cypher shows up in the flesh, he was shooting daemons defending an Imperial Guard outpost. He made the single surviving Guardsman swear an oath never to reveal what happened or he would shoot him on the spot. Then he left.

As far as who Cypher is, it is not in any of the current released literature.

There was a rumor that it may be Redloss, voted Lieutenant of the Dreadwing under Lion El'Jonson, last seen leaving Macragge in Angels of Caliban. I don't see this being supported by anything currently released, so it's just a rumor based on GS3 which I don't think can be confirmed.

The other theory is that Cypher may be Zahariel, last known person to hold the official position as Lord Cypher under Luther at Caliban. Zahariel however was a Librarian and there is no immediately available explanation as to why he would have the Lion Sword. Cypher is also known not to use his sword and to rely exclusively on his pistols in combat, and no lore has established him as a psyker.

This also makes me thing twice about Redloss because Redloss was described as destroying a Dreadnought with his axe. It seems odd he would forgo its use in favor of a pair of pistols.

One thing that strikes me is that I wonder if Cypher has access to one of the three Warp engines in relation to Caliban, that allows him to rapidly move throughout time and space similar to the Techulcha engine. Technically, Astelan speculated that if they combined the three engines they would be able to travel through time itself.

Spoiler:
Note that use of the warp engines to travel through time was responsible for the destruction of Caliban, itself housing the Ouroboros and part of the three warp entities that when combined allow time travel.

Techulcha, the other engine, was on Lion's capital ship and is now part of The Rock. The third engine is unnamed and I believe it is related to Cypher's ability to rapidly travel throughout time and space, and the reason why he is so elusive to the Dark Angels.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tuchulcha


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We know that the current Cypher* is a psyker. But other than that, we don't know.


*
Spoiler:
Assuming Zahariel El'Zurias has not been killed and replaced by a different astartes who then took on the same title.
He was appointed by Luther, too, so the odds that he's Chaos-tainted are high, but it's not impossible that he's mostly pure, but pursuing his own agenda.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/07 17:33:48


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 Lance845 wrote:


He has the Lions Sword.


If I remember correctly the Lion gave Zahariel some kind of special sword. That was not the Lion's sword itself though.
   
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Seraf wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:


He has the Lions Sword.


If I remember correctly the Lion gave Zahariel some kind of special sword. That was not the Lion's sword itself though.


The last known character in 30k to have the Lion Sword was Holguin, per Angels of Caliban.

He had that sword onboard Lion's flagship within driving distance from Macragge. Zahariel was on Caliban at that time.

Which means that Lion still has to go all the way back to Terra and all the way back to Caliban before the Lion Sword could get back into Zahariel's grip.

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Cypher is Magneto. He does some bad stuff, pisses off lots of people, but does it for the sake of protecting his chosen people. He has an agenda that some people consider evil, but others realize his penchant for good.
So while I realize Magneto isn't literally transplanted into 40k, I think that's a fair analogy. Magneto and Cypher are pretty similar in character.

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 timetowaste85 wrote:
Cypher is Magneto. He does some bad stuff, pisses off lots of people, but does it for the sake of protecting his chosen people. He has an agenda that some people consider evil, but others realize his penchant for good.
So while I realize Magneto isn't literally transplanted into 40k, I think that's a fair analogy. Magneto and Cypher are pretty similar in character.

The thing is that Magneto's agenda is well-known (at least to the reader). Cypher is still shrouded in mystery. We can assume based on his actions in the Rising Storm fluff that he's a force for good, but he could be pulling a double cross for all we know, and his pre-RisingStorm lore depicts him as an absolute enigma.

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While many of the Fallen did turn to Chaos, not all of them did necessarily. Cypher could potentially be pure still.

The Dark Angels hunt the Fallen because they know the Dark Angels secret shame. Which is somewhat vague, but implied that it could be that the Lion was actually a traitor. He had the ability to get to Terra before any of the other Loyalists, but chose not to. One book has a fallen accuse him of simply waiting to see which side won before he picked.

Some of the Fallen, and Cypher, could simply be working to expose this treachery. While the Dark Angels are trying to keep this underwraps so they don't get mislabeled as traitors, because the current Dark Angels are loyal.

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Could several theories be true at once?

Zahariel was the first Cypher and possessed by Lion's spirit while his body sleeps. Each time Cypher "dies" the Lion's psychic essence finds a new host. As Lion's spirit is manifested by psychic energies, it can travel across time and space. He only ever fights with CSM to serve the ends of the DAs and avoids capture because his only ever has the body of whatever host he has taken, which most likely disappears when his spirit does.

-

   
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 Galef wrote:
Could several theories be true at once?

Zahariel was the first Cypher and possessed by Lion's spirit while his body sleeps. Each time Cypher "dies" the Lion's psychic essence finds a new host. As Lion's spirit is manifested by psychic energies, it can travel across time and space. He only ever fights with CSM to serve the ends of the DAs and avoids capture because his only ever has the body of whatever host he has taken, which most likely disappears when his spirit does.

-
It sounds to me like you are saying Lion el Johnson, so by extension Cypher, is Alpharius!

Jokes aside, I quite like this. It's a neat way to explain the escapeyness of Cypher.
   
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 TedNugent wrote:
Seraf wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:


He has the Lions Sword.


If I remember correctly the Lion gave Zahariel some kind of special sword. That was not the Lion's sword itself though.


The last known character in 30k to have the Lion Sword was Holguin, per Angels of Caliban.

He had that sword onboard Lion's flagship within driving distance from Macragge. Zahariel was on Caliban at that time.

Which means that Lion still has to go all the way back to Terra and all the way back to Caliban before the Lion Sword could get back into Zahariel's grip.


In Rise of the Primarch there is written that Guilliman recognizes the sword Cypher is carrying, and so he will never allow him to be in the presence of the Emperor. I haven't read the book though, just the recap here in Dakka.

Do someone has any clue on a specific sword that could pose a big threat for the Emp?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/16 00:22:23


 
   
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Seraf wrote:
Do someone has any clue on a specific sword that could pose a big threat for the Emp?


The Lion's Sword

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/16 00:46:02


 
   
 
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