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Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

So as not to hijack the other Upsilon thread, I want to put this list out there for your consideration:

99 points
------

Major Stridan (36)
Upsilon-class Shuttle (32), Systems Officer (2), Pattern Analyzer (2)

Carnor Jax (32)
TIE Interceptor (26), Push the Limit (3), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

The Inquisitor (31)
TIE Advanced Prototype (25), Push the Limit (3), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)
------
The basic idea is to get as many actions as possible with no BMST vulnerability.

Stridan does a green and passes Inquisitor a TL. His title gives him a free evade _action_ from which he can push and then reveal a green to get rid of the stress and take another action.

Stridan then coordinates Carnor to do basically the same thing, with Engine Mk II to give him a few extra greens to choose from.

The most obvious change would be to drop pattern analyze and boost Carnor to Soontir (for extra ps & bonus focus) but I kinda like the idea of being able to do the stop/1 turn and still coordinate...

Giving the interceptor 2 potential moves and the Inquisitor 1 before the dial comes out should make them really hard to block/bomb...

Thoughts?
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Interesting idea.. I'm going to be honest and I'm going to try this list.
I've been trying to get the shuttle to work and have thought maybe having Mara ride in it.

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

I've since built on your idea and worked this up.
The idea of the weapons engineer is to have multiple TL's out there for Vess to use
[Thumb - received_10212564856185644.jpeg]


: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Interesting idea.. I'm going to be honest and I'm going to try this list.

Just so as you let me know how it goes. I've been flying Defenders for so long that I'm not terribly confident in my (initial) ability to switch back to arc dodgers and keeping my aggressive tendencies in check.

I've been trying to get the shuttle to work and have thought maybe having Mara ride in it.

I'm not sure I've figured out a good way to use Mara. One stress isn't a big deal for most, and the timing of Mara and limit to one stress total is awkward. It's not really a big deterrent to R1 attacks and too many points to just be an add on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 captain bloody fists wrote:
I've since built on your idea and worked this up.
The idea of the weapons engineer is to have multiple TL's out there for Vess to use

You might switch Carnor to the Inquisitor (PTL/ v1/auto for 31 points or engine Mk II for 30 for surprise maneuvers) and use the extra to give Vessery VI. That gets you an extra source of TL for Vessery for if/when the shuttle is destroyed and the flexibility to move/ shoot in the order you want.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/07 12:44:02


 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Apostasus wrote:
 captain bloody fists wrote:
Interesting idea.. I'm going to be honest and I'm going to try this list.

Just so as you let me know how it goes. I've been flying Defenders for so long that I'm not terribly confident in my (initial) ability to switch back to arc dodgers and keeping my aggressive tendencies in check.

I've been trying to get the shuttle to work and have thought maybe having Mara ride in it.

I'm not sure I've figured out a good way to use Mara. One stress isn't a big deal for most, and the timing of Mara and limit to one stress total is awkward. It's not really a big deterrent to R1 attacks and too many points to just be an add on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 captain bloody fists wrote:
I've since built on your idea and worked this up.
The idea of the weapons engineer is to have multiple TL's out there for Vess to use

You might switch Carnor to the Inquisitor (PTL/ v1/auto for 31 points or engine Mk II for 30 for surprise maneuvers) and use the extra to give Vessery VI. That gets you an extra source of TL for Vessery for if/when the shuttle is destroyed and the flexibility to move/ shoot in the order you want.


i shall let you know my results. I've been flying the defenders from pretty much day dot and love them.

i've had a bit of success with Mara in a Tie Shuttle (second at a local tournament & 14th at a big event in Brisbane) but you are right about only one stress...

I like Carnor and his ability (no focus or evades at R1) it's come in handy but i also get your opinion on Quis. He might even last slightly longer than Jax but there's not much difference in firepower between the two of them and the only advantage the Quis has over him is the TL and 2 shields. just my opinion.

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

 captain bloody fists wrote:
I like Carnor and his ability (no focus or evades at R1) it's come in handy but i also get your opinion on Quis. He might even last slightly longer than Jax but there's not much difference in firepower between the two of them and the only advantage the Quis has over him is the TL and 2 shields. just my opinion.

Cool. I was just throwing out the idea. In theory Inky will hit a bit harder and boost Vessery better, but definitely lacks Carnor's ability to screw up enemy token hoarders.

I'm also thinking that some variation of this with Maarek Stele and score/debt could be really good too (especially if Stridan had an EPT... can you imagine Stridan with draw their fire?). Like this perhaps:

100 points
------

Major Stridan (34)
Upsilon-class Shuttle (32), Systems Officer (2)

Maarek Stele (33)
TIE Defender (35), A Score to Settle (0), TIE/x7 (-2)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (33)
TIE Defender (34), Draw Their Fire (1), TIE/x7 (-2).
------

I suspect that another way we'll see the Upsilon is just a stripped down starkiller base pilot for the 4 dice attack and occasional r1-2 base coordinate action. I remember from trying to run lone wolf how hard it is to stay out of that band, so coordinate should work pretty well even w/o Stridan.
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Apostasus wrote:

Cool. I was just throwing out the idea. In theory Inky will hit a bit harder and boost Vessery better, but definitely lacks Carnor's ability to screw up enemy token hoarders.

I'm also thinking that some variation of this with Maarek Stele and score/debt could be really good too (especially if Stridan had an EPT... can you imagine Stridan with draw their fire?). Like this perhaps:

100 points
------

Major Stridan (34)
Upsilon-class Shuttle (32), Systems Officer (2)

Maarek Stele (33)
TIE Defender (35), A Score to Settle (0), TIE/x7 (-2)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (33)
TIE Defender (34), Draw Their Fire (1), TIE/x7 (-2).
------

I suspect that another way we'll see the Upsilon is just a stripped down starkiller base pilot for the 4 dice attack and occasional r1-2 base coordinate action. I remember from trying to run lone wolf how hard it is to stay out of that band, so coordinate should work pretty well even w/o Stridan.


not sure how Inq would be hitting harder? they're both hitting at 3 attack dice from range 2-3 but Jax is throwing 4 at R1 where Inq is still only doing 3. but there are those shields.

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

not sure how Inq would be hitting harder? they're both hitting at 3 attack dice from range 2-3 but Jax is throwing 4 at R1 where Inq is still only doing 3. but there are those shields.

More reliably, I should have said, perhaps, given the TL, which the Inquisitor will have just about every turn.
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Apostasus wrote:
not sure how Inq would be hitting harder? they're both hitting at 3 attack dice from range 2-3 but Jax is throwing 4 at R1 where Inq is still only doing 3. but there are those shields.

More reliably, I should have said, perhaps, given the TL, which the Inquisitor will have just about every turn.


that's probably a better word

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

I had my first two test games today, and definitely ran into some limitations. The first was the realization that both the interceptor and the TAP are still vulnerable to bmst from ps4 (Stridan activation) to their own PS (8 for Inquisitor and 9 for Soontir as i ran the list). It's definitely not quite as handy as the bb-8 shenanigans.

Also, I think the Inquisitor is the one who needs the Mk II engine rather than Soontir. It gives him 4 more green moves instead of just 2 for an interceptor, and most importantly, not-straight maneuvers that are not speed 1.

I am probably also spoiled by Defenders (and Vessery in particular) but it was really frustrating throwing dice and getting no hits or only one, despite having a focus. So I'm toying with giving Soontir a targeting computer instead of his engine Mk II. Mainly because that gives him a stronger attack in turns he doesn't need to reposition.

Also I probably overused the "new toy" aspects of the synergy, using it when standard moves would have been just as good.

And there are definitely some vulnerabilities to this list. Kylo crew (wt Vader on RAC) is just deadly for the Inquisitor. A crit that bypassed shields with vader to deal it even if you dodge all the shots. Do that twice and dead Inquisitor (or a-wing). At least with Kylo pilot (different game) i was able to get the blinded pilot off the Inquisitor to my shuttle by being the first one that shot it.

Conclusion, still needs some tinkering, and probably a lot of practice, but it definitely has potential. (Oh, I went 1-1 for the day but really should have been 0-2. My opponent managed to fly his Upsilon off the board).
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Interesting... I thought that the list would have been a bit better.

I've got two games lined up this evening so I'm going to be testing my above list and I've got this one as well

: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

There was suppose to be a list attached....
[Thumb - Squadron_12550389.jpg]


: 4500pts

Lothlorien: 3500pts
Rohan: 1500pts
Serpent: 2000pts
Modor: 1500pts 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Interesting... I thought that the list would have been a bit better.

Some of that is probably piloting. I'm out of practice with arc dodgers. Also, the 1st list i went against (sabaac & countdown with ailerons & kylo shuttle w/engine upgrade) also required a lot of time in the planning phase. Ended up going to time. He killed my shuttle and I killed nothing.

2nd game was RAC w/ kylo, Vader and a Upsilon w/ hux & inspired recruit (and ex interface). The shuttle wasn't really optimized but a Vader Decimator is death to Soontir (literally... 1st vader was a direct hit)

I've got two games lined up this evening so I'm going to be testing my above list and I've got this one as well

Hope you do better than I did. Looking forward to the report


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Kylo + Vader could have meant a dead Inquisitor in 2 turns... kylo to pick a crit, then Vader to deal it. He could have forced a draw even in in the last turn if he'd done that by dealing a 2nd face up damage through my shields

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/10 03:41:38


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Apostasus wrote:
kylo to pick a crit, then Vader to deal it.


This does NOT work. ISYTDS only triggers when you are dealt critical damage during an attack. Vader happens after an attack.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Apostasus wrote:
I had my first two test games today, and definitely ran into some limitations. The first was the realization that both the interceptor and the TAP are still vulnerable to bmst from ps4 (Stridan activation) to their own PS (8 for Inquisitor and 9 for Soontir as i ran the list). It's definitely not quite as handy as the bb-8 shenanigans.

Also, I think the Inquisitor is the one who needs the Mk II engine rather than Soontir. It gives him 4 more green moves instead of just 2 for an interceptor, and most importantly, not-straight maneuvers that are not speed 1.



I would have thought Autothrusters would be a better bet in general. With PTL and a Boost or Barrel Roll the lack of non-straight greens beyond speed 1 shouldn't be that much of an issue. Autothrusters helps against so many things. The main threats it helps against at the moment are probably TLTs and - if it becomes popular enough - RAC with Kylo. Also, the Inquisitor doesn't really need to stay close to his enemy like Soontir prefers to do.

It's an interesting list and I tried something similar recently. I think you're right that the key is knowing when to use your toys and when you need to dial it back a bit.
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

 Peregrine wrote:
This does NOT work. ISYTDS only triggers when you are dealt critical damage during an attack. Vader happens after an attack.

Well that changes things! In that case, I'm probably wrong about the switch from autothrusters to eng mk 2 on the Inquisitor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think, for practice purposes, I'm going to change up to this:

99 points

Pilots
------

Major Stridan (35)
Upsilon-class Shuttle (32), Electronic Baffle (1), Systems Officer (2)

Soontir Fel (35)
TIE Interceptor (27), Royal Guard TIE (0), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

“Omega Leader” (29)
TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2), Stealth Device (3)
------
Systems officer can either give Omega Leader his target lock (or let him change it without spending an action) or give it to Soontir (that works, right? I remember there being some wording that ships receiving target locks have to be "eligible" to take them on their own...)

I'm kinda wondering if rebel captive on the shuttle instead of stealth for Omega Leader might be better... something to deter/punish my opponent for shooting the shuttle first? Or sensor jammer (losing the Baffle too)?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/10 16:12:45


 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

So, I tried the Omega Leader variant today and managed a 1 point win against a Rey/Sabine /gemmer sojan (a-wing) list. Basically (VI) Rey/Finn and 2 blockers (though Gemmer did have prockets for a credible threat).

I managed to let Soontir take a crit because I didn't want to push post move and leave him stressed and un-coordinate-able for the next turn (kinda forgot the Falcon turret/ thought it had a better target in arc) and the greens failed me even with Autothrusters. And the critical was stunned pilot (if you're blocked/ hit a rock, take a damage).

Here's where my lack of experience with Soontir came to play. I had a turn where I could disengage but I thought there was no way sabine could block me if I turned in. I neglected to consider her bumping me and my 1-hard bumped me back to her. Next turn i had far fewer options and gemmer got the block for a dead Soontir. The right Soontir play would have been to break off and come back at leisure. Ah, well, that's how I learn.

That left Omega and Stridan vs the rest, but Omega did for Sabine in short order after that turn, and Stridan had like 3 turns to throw 5 dice at Gemmer (missed/1 damage from the first 2, but the 3rd I got 2 hits & 2 crits and gemmer- who had taken at least 1 from Omega Leader earlier- went boom.

The shuttle never got another shot, but it bought Omega a few turns with a free target lock (that I was free to spend if Rey didn’t have a focus) and I was able to get her below half (including Rey getting a stunned pilot crit) before my opponent was able to move/boost out of arc and run until time. Fortunately for me, Rey was 56 points, so half was at 28... (and in retrospect, I also got the 1 point I didn't spend for initiative).

So that kinda inadvertently answered my question about stealth device on OL. Points in him are probably a better investment than points in the shuttle, which will almost certainly be knocked to half and probably die outright. A 26 point Omega Leader would have meant a loss for me (small ship without boost chasing a big ship with higher ps & boost is an exercise in futility).

And while I kinda missed the Inquisitor extra shenanigans, it made for a much smoother planning phase for me. And only once did I accidentally plan on giving extra actions to both ships the same turn
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

Another not-so-successful test run at the FLGS weekly tournament tonight. 0-3 for the night.

First game was against a semi mirror match: Palpatine riding with Stridan plus collision detector & Inquisitor with prockets and omega leader without stealth. He threw a great block vs Soontir early on and he died to little return. But I'd gotten a lot of damage onto his Inquisitor and omega lead was able to finish him off. My shuttle died band I got his to half points before we went to time. My Omega was undamaged his had lost a shield (Omega va Omega is a rather pointless exercise, especially with Palpatine involved).

My second game was against a vi Fett and 2 tlt y-wings. The standout memory for me was how Soontir had 2 r1 shots on a y-wing in consecutive turns and did a whopping 1 damage each time (and the shuttle's first shot on the same y also did only 1 damage. The red dice were significantly below average for me all night (but some of that may have been unmodified shooting). Game also went to time. I had Omega Leader left and he had 1/2 fett and a limping y-wing. Oh yeah, I managed to lose Soontir's stealth device to a TLT shot when my tokens had been stripped. He rolled 2 attacks and I rolled an evade and 2 focus, so no autothrusters to save me. In retrospect, I should have barreled into r1 of 1 y-wing even if it meant going into arc of the other.

My final game was against 2 Firesprays Emon & Fett. I took a pair of seismic charges (one on OL one on the shuttle) but I avoided the cluster mines and the Homing Missiles. But I lost Omega early (probably should have TL'ed Emon (who had Dengar crew) from a failed block on Fett that left him in both arcs. My shuttle was down to 1 hull and I think I had half points on one or both Firesprays before we called it early (neither of us was anywhere near the top). Again, I had a lot of whiffed attacks.

I'm probably going to keep trying/practicing with this list a bit but I'm not sure if this is the right mix. I may try Carnor Jax instead of Soontir as I'm not convinced that I have the temperament for Soontir (the instincts to break off the attack, primarily). Or maybe Palpatine is just necessary to keep Interceptors alive... no concord dawn title after all...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A possible tweak: EDITED FOR LIST ERROR

===========================
Upsilon Aces (FOIA Mk II)
===========================
99 points
------

Major Stridan (35)
Upsilon-class Shuttle (32), Fire-Control System (2), Inteligence Agent (1)

“Omega Leader” (29)
TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2), Stealth Device (3)

Soontir Fel (35)
TIE Interceptor (27), Royal Guard TIE (0), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

------

My thinking here is that intel agent could be more valuable than systems officer to help Soontir avoid blocks because coordinate gives me the ability reposition after dials are down.

Thoughts?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/14 22:21:16


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




His title gives him a free evade _action_ from which he can push and then reveal a green to get rid of the stress and take another action.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/02 05:53:48


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

judyeast wrote:
His title gives him a free evade _action_ from which he can push and then reveal a green to get rid of the stress and take another action.


Not sure what you're talking about, but if you're refering to the X7 title, you're wrong. It does not, in fact, give you a free action, but rather assigns the ship a token. You can't PTL off of that.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster



Boston

I believe that it's referring to the TAP v1 title
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





While it's quite a neat combo (OP), I think you start to hit a point of diminishing returns with regards to actions on Quiz. If you can pass him the TL consistently with Stridan then it's harder to justify PTL over Juke, and that would allow you to put Stealth Device on Jax. While PTL is certainly powerful, you're paying a premium to put an extra action on a ship which already (potentially) has 4 actions, without PTL. You might find Juke more efficient.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/03 00:24:12


 
   
 
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