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Hello everybody,

I have been a miniatures gamer for about half a decade now, but only recently picked up the Dark Vengeance boxed set. I have also been a long time lurker here, but didn't really have a reason to join until now since it this is primarily Warhammer 40K site. What caused me to consider dipping my toe was the Youtube series, "If the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device" by Bruva Alfabasa. I actually found it to be a pretty good, if comical, primer on the 40K universe. Before then, my only experience was a failed FFG Rogue Trader rpg campaign and an even worst Warhammer Fantasy rpg campaign.

I don't really know if I am going to really get into Warhammer 40K beyond Dark Vengeance as I already play a bunch of other miniatures games that I think have far more accessible rules with miniatures at a far more affordable price. I plan painting the Chaos as Black Legion and the Dark Angels as Fallen just in case. That way everything should technically be allowable in a single, if terrible, army. If I don't get into 40K further, I figure I can use them for my personal designed sci-fi skirmish game. Plus, I really wanted to see what all the hub-bub was about on Games Workshop miniatures.


I have a bunch of stuff for Bolt Action, AWI Black Powder and Deadzone as well as Dreadball. My favorite of them being Bolt Action, at least when it is historically themed. So I am no stranger to Nottingham game designers/game companies.

Hey there I'm new to Dakka too!

That sounds like a great idea, painting your DA as Fallen makes great use of the DV box!
You might find the new Cypher model very tempting if you actually start collecting an army of Fallen!

Hi,

Welcome to Dakka

@AmberWarden

At the prices of Games Workshop stuff and my initial impression of the game, I doubt I will add anything outside Chaos Space Marine units which I like the look of more than any real desire to play the game. I will admit that the two-guns, cloak wearing cypher looks pretty neat though.

@Knightley

Thanks.



If anyone cares, I would like to give my initial impression of Warhammer 40K via Dark Vengeance. I think it could be interesting as I started miniatures wargaming outside GW games. Even if most of them where designed my ex-GW employees.

I am okay with the IGOUGO setup. It's not my favorite, but I actually like it better than purely alternating activations which I think is just far too orderly and makes coordinating attacks difficult. I would not be heartbroken if this was dropped in favor of the more popular alternating activations (even if I don't personally like it).

I am neutral to the phase system of activation. I prefer a do everything then move to the next unit game (it is too easy to forget about stuff otherwise) as I don't really care about the intricacies of what breaking up these actions into phases.

I don't like the matrix charts (to wound or to hit) or charts/tables in games in general. The matrix charts are like some old 2nd ed D&D type stuff that many games dropped (like ThAC0) by the 21st century. I am not a fan of games that require much referencing to the rules. Many of the games I play, I could go whole games without cracking the rule book so long as I have the unit stats available.

It doesn't bother me too much by having the three dice rolls for most attacks (to hit, to wound, armor/cover), though; I think I would prefer two if I was to play it beyond 50 models a side. It just seems too much dice rolling for more typically sized games.

I don't really like the Strength vs. Toughness thing yet as it is one more thing to slow down the flow of the game comparing the two stats. Although, I could probably be neutral to it in time, or once again, the game was played more as a skirmish level.

I really don't like the remove models from the front thing. I get the reasoning, but I think there is a very good reason why so few game do it (including older editions of 40K I believe). I dislike this rule even more in close combat. At the size that 40K seems to be played, I think a much more simplified defender picks the casualties and gets on with it would work better.

I don't like the variable charge (assault?) distance. Sure, it has a nice press your luck element and risk to reward, but I think it is the wrong place for such a thing as I could see it making and breaking an entire game. And that's not tactics, just dumb luck. And that is speaking with only Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines. If I was playing with a fair more melee focused faction I probably would dislike it much more. Strangely, I am okay with the difficult terrain version of random movement.

That is where I stand at the moment. I still need to run through the rules a bunch more. I figure I will run through all of the scenarios solo to better understand the rules (which should give me some time to paint the models) before I decide if I am going to expose my friend to this. He is not really a miniatures war gamer, though; he is kicking my but in my own sci-fi skirmish game roughly built out of the Savage Worlds RPG system. Chances are my Warhammer 40K models will get rules to fit in that system more than me playing much of 7th edition.

TL;DR initial impression of Warhammer 40K through Dark Vengeance is the game seems like it is much more suited to games perhaps no more than double the size of the each of the factions in the box (or both combined). Even then, it doesn't seem to be anything special to me save some fairly old design ideas that most of the modern tabletop games (board, miniatures and RPG) I play have long since abandoned.

I like the miniatures well enough and thought ~$2/mini was a decent enough value that I paid for Dark Vengeance. I could probably stomach upwards of $5/mini of standard troops (read: space marine) given the quality, but I wouldn't go beyond a couple boxes of troops at that price. Especially given the fair to poor game attached with it.