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So with the majority of the rules leaked now for the new Aeldari faction including the Reborn Warhost and the unit list available I figured it was time to start discussing builds and tactics to use or combat this new faction type.

Here is a link to spoiled images: http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/02/images-from-inside-fracture-of-biel-tan.html

As you can see the faction can cherry pick all the best "Aeldari" units at the benefit of no tax and unlike Unbound you get the Strength from Death special rule which is pretty awesome for units like scatbikes which never utilized battle focus anyway.

This new sandbox seems to make things like scat bikes spam and warp spider spam even more potent which is rather troubling for the meta.

Consider a list built from the Pale Courts or even just spamming warp spider aspect shrines now losing battle focus but gaining the ability to move, shoot or assault out of sequence including during an opponents turn. A viable tactic to deal with warp spiders in the past was to not shoot them and assault them avoiding their flicker jump, often you would assault with a sacrificial unit first to absorb over watch, now if they kill said unit they can immediately shoot at full BS again at the main unit you were using. Or in their own turn by positioning a unit between two targets a large unit of spiders can shoot twice so long as they wipe the initial target.

I'd like to discuss other thoughts on this new sandbox element to the eldar and develop a better understanding of what this new faction is capable of in order to prepare those who are unaware of some of the cheesier implications, while eventually I would like to consider the fluffier side of say harlies using raiders in order to make larger units more viable and possibly chain assault targets, I's like to develop strategies (if any exist) to combat the darker implications brought out from this release.

Thanks guys.

doot

I don't know I think all those complains about OP should be thrown out of the window. New edition is coming and GW anyway got to those something with rules bloat and unbalanced armies.
I like new faction as it makes Harelquins quite good. I know it can be used to spam jetbikes and warpspiders to even better effect. But 40k heavy-competitive scene is so bad anyway that it changes little. I hope GW will adress some of those issues with new editon. Maybe they will just release one big Eldar book to enable those kid of armies.

For know I will play with my Harlequins and have a blast with them with some new options.

Well, the Ulthwe Stike Force alone has taken Scaterbikes to a new level.
Sure they cost +3ppm now and in the detachment they do not seem to have ObSec, but you can take 4 units (so only 36pts more than before) and be able to roll for them to Deep Strike on turn 1 with No Scatter.
One of the only weaknesses of Scatterbike spam was being Alpha struck. That no longer seems to be an issue. In fact, you can take this detachment alongside a Ynnari "CAD" and null deploy.

I'll have to get the book to really dig into the potential 'Strength from Death' shenanigans, but so far it is looking like Eldar....excuse me, "Aeldari" are getting cranked up to 12 (cuz the 7th ed CWE codex had already cranked them up to 11)

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 DantePQ wrote:
I don't know I think all those complains about OP should be thrown out of the window. New edition is coming and GW anyway got to those something with rules bloat and unbalanced armies.
I like new faction as it makes Harelquins quite good. I know it can be used to spam jetbikes and warpspiders to even better effect. But 40k heavy-competitive scene is so bad anyway that it changes little. I hope GW will adress some of those issues with new editon. Maybe they will just release one big Eldar book to enable those kid of armies.

For know I will play with my Harlequins and have a blast with them with some new options.

O am sure you will but please keep the discussion in the current context. If you have a strategy/list involving a fun way to play harlies please share and discuss but please don't speculate or handwave away current ramifications by saying "8th will fix it" GW has had nearly 8 editions of 40k and has yet to fix some of the most fundamental problems. While I like to consider the glass half full, I also am not going to ignore nearly 30 years of past precedent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:
Well, the Ulthwe Stike Force alone has taken Scaterbikes to a new level.
Sure they cost +3ppm now and in the detachment they do not seem to have ObSec, but you can take 4 units (so only 36pts more than before) and be able to roll for them to Deep Strike on turn 1 with No Scatter.
One of the only weaknesses of Scatterbike spam was being Alpha struck. That no longer seems to be an issue. In fact, you can take this detachment alongside a Ynnari "CAD" and null deploy.

I'll have to get the book to really dig into the potential 'Strength from Death' shenanigans, but so far it is looking like Eldar....excuse me, "Aeldari" are getting cranked up to 12 (cuz the 7th ed CWE codex had already cranked them up to 11)

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Exactly, obsec is one of the stronger mechanics but it is by no means the only way to win or er skin that cat. After all, several armies did well at the LVO without obsec. Riptide wings, wraith knights of various type and war convocation just to name a few.

The ability to deep strike with no scatter around your opponent and alpha them on turn 1 no less is brutal.

And with the range of the Scatterlaser, it will be quite easy to Deep Strike far away, right next to a LoS blocking piece of terrain, in side/rear armour, plink your shots, the scoot out of LoS.
This will absolutely be standard for Eldar tourney lists

Do we know for sure that you can select any detachment to be ynnari? Because GW has done book specific factions in the past, like Ghazgul supplement. Not seen anything that confirms how that works, without that it is hard for me to assume CAD or pale courts are an option.

What I do know is a couple things.

7" from where the last model was removed is not a lot of wiggle room. Any unit with some foot print will push out the chance of benefiting unless you are right on top of them. Which is not where you want most eldar units, if relying on enemy deaths.

If relying on your own deaths in opponents shooting/psychic phase, that's a nice boost if it happens but it relies on a couple of things happening, like opponent not whittling down surrounding units before finishing off units or leaving units in a place where they can actually shoot (rather than jump shoot jumping or similar) or benefit from a free move or assault.

There's some power there for sure but its fairly situational due to that 7" range and whether that triggers. And relies on your opponent not being saavy which will only take you so far.

The Reborn Warhost detatchment may select 0-1 Formations to be a part of the detatchment. The Formation keeps their benefits but also gains the benefit of the mega-detatchment. The listed formations are basically all the ones from the Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harlequin books - except Haemonculus stuff or Forgeworld stuff (Iyanden stuff is out, too).

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Reborn Warhost detatchment may select 0-1 Formations to be a part of the detatchment. The Formation keeps their benefits but also gains the benefit of the mega-detatchment. The listed formations are basically all the ones from the Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harlequin books - except Haemonculus stuff or Forgeworld stuff (Iyanden stuff is out, too).

Right, but people are already planning on taking a CAD or any ole eldar detachment outside of the Reborn Warhost and making it Ynnari, which I don't see confirmed as possible.

There is a specific list of available units and formations that Ynnari can include:


As you can see, no Forge World ones are listed, nor are any Haemonculi Coven formations

It is also important to note that all units taking in a Ynnari detachment are considered the Ynnari Faction. Meaning you may start Eldar units in Dark Eldar transports again

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But lose the army rules for those respective armies.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Reborn Warhost detatchment may select 0-1 Formations to be a part of the detatchment. The Formation keeps their benefits but also gains the benefit of the mega-detatchment. The listed formations are basically all the ones from the Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harlequin books - except Haemonculus stuff or Forgeworld stuff (Iyanden stuff is out, too).

You misread it bro. the 0-1 restriction is on Lords of War. The text (bottom left) states "any number of formations" can be in the Reborn Warhost.



So it means you can use the formations to get around the CAD restrictions. Want more than 3 elite aspect warriors? Aspect host. Want more than one Wraithknight? Wraith host (although it comes witha 670 point tax of other smaller wraith units and a spiritseer)

 Galef wrote:
There is a specific list of available units and formations that Ynnari can include:

Spoiler:

As you can see, no Forge World ones are listed, nor are any Haemonculi Coven formations

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Right. That list is for the Reborn Warhost though, not a list for ynnari per se. So still does not confirm that you can (or cannot) make an actual CAD (eg with obsec bikes) or other detachment 'ynnari', which folks in this thread (including yourself) have suggested.

This is exactly what I was hoping for.

It's gonna make it really easy to throw in some eldar allies and the such into my Dark Eldar and Harlequins, plus the lack of an insane Harlie tax is really awesome.

Does anybody know what the black eldar do?

Additionally, The avatar of Ynead seems pretty good, initially I saw that it didn't have any movement options and I frowned but this is probably a lot better.

Is there anything preventing the doubles for perils when it comes to Santic? It seems like a cool option but I am no sure if its actually worth taking... And since the Avatar is a daemon, doesn't that mean it can't take of santic?

I highly doubt you'll be able to take a CAD. From what we have seen so far, the wording seems to indicate that the only way to take the Ynnari Faction is to take the Ynnari Detachment, with the units/formations listed.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
... And since the Avatar is a daemon, doesn't that mean it can't take of santic?

Wow. Way to go GW. There's a derp moment if ever there was one.

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Does the "one of" language before every unit entry mean anything? I'm worried it's saying you can't take duplicates of any unit in a Warhost (so only 1 Windrider unit, for example).

Also, wait, this is super confusing.

So I can include an Eldar Warhost as part of the Reborn Warhost, O.K. cool, but under the Eldar Warhost I can take Wraith Construct multiple times for multiple Wraithknights or I could take Wraith Construct and Living Legend to have a Wraithknight and an Avatar of Khaine, but the Reborn Warhost says 0-1 for Lords of War, so wouldn't that prevent me from doing that and still having it be Ynnari?

Audustum wrote:
Does the "one of" language before every unit entry mean anything? I'm worried it's saying you can't take duplicates of any unit in a Warhost (so only 1 Windrider unit, for example).

Oh I hope so. Force that creative thinking.

 nintura wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Does the "one of" language before every unit entry mean anything? I'm worried it's saying you can't take duplicates of any unit in a Warhost (so only 1 Windrider unit, for example).

Oh I hope so. Force that creative thinking.

See, I wanted it to take multiple Wraithguard :(

Alessander wrote:

You misread it bro. the 0-1 restriction is on Lords of War. The text (bottom left) states "any number of formations" can be in the Reborn Warhost.

I don't think I misread it - look at the spoilered image. It says "one of the following" and lists the formations available.

Edit:
Seems we have a discrepancy in the rules between the text and the image.?

Yeah, this is weird... and probably because we don't have access to the whole book, but each one of those listings say one of the following... so you are probably right.

 Galef wrote:
There is a specific list of available units and formations that Ynnari can include:

Spoiler:

As you can see, no Forge World ones are listed, nor are any Haemonculi Coven formations

It is also important to note that all units taking in a Ynnari detachment are considered the Ynnari Faction. Meaning you may start Eldar units in Dark Eldar transports again

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Well, no GW codex has ever referenced Forgeworld units, so we'll have to wait for Forgeworld to FAQ it..


Gummy made a good point - due to the way shooting casualties are removed (front to back), it's likely that the last dying model in a unit will be out of the 7" range of most shooters unless you start the shooting phase right in their faces, so trying to use soulburst to have a unit shoot twice will not be easy.

It's "any number of formations" within their own restrictions of "1 of each of these"

Yeah that's a pretty big discrepancy, since the Reborn Warhost detachment clearly allows the same # of slots as a CAD (side bar, this is why I feel the regular CAD will not be available for Ynnari)

It'll be kinda hard to fill the minimum 2 Troops when we can only take "1 of the following". I'm thinking it probably means no spamming. So you can take 1 unit of Windriders and 1 unit of Dire Avengers as your Troops, but you cannot take 2 units or Windriders, for example. So no duplication on ANY unit or Formation.

 rollawaythestone wrote:

Alessander wrote:

You misread it bro. the 0-1 restriction is on Lords of War. The text (bottom left) states "any number of formations" can be in the Reborn Warhost.

I don't think I misread it - look at the spoilered image. It says "one of the following" and lists the formations available.

Spoiler:

The "one each" is the same as the Grand Convocation and the Castellans of the Imperium



Only difference is that it allows for infinite formations, taken one at a time.

EDIT saw your edit

Yeah, you're right.

To me it sounds like its' meant to keep people from taking multiples of the same unit. So no 2 Striking Scorpion squads. But you can have 1 with a squad of Howling Banshees (minimum of 2 squads up to 6)

Seems pretty much common sense.

 nintura wrote:
To me it sounds like its' meant to keep people from taking multiples of the same unit. So no 2 Striking Scorpion squads. But you can have 1 with a squad of Howling Banshees (minimum of 2 squads up to 6)

Seems pretty much common sense.

I don't think so, Since the Grand Convocation and Castellans of the Imperium use the same wording, I don't think it's limiting one of each unit. Especially since The Grand Convocation allows 2-4 HQs and there only 3 HQs listed, there's no way to get a 4th if you can't duplication non-unique units. Likewise, since the Troops selection is 4+, and there are only 4 troops choices, why say 4+?

No, I think they are right. It means that a single Troop slot may be ONE of the following units. You'll have to take ANOTHER Troops slot to take another unit of the same or different.

In other words, you cannot use 1 Troops slot to get 2 units. Kinda weird wording though.

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 Galef wrote:
No, I think they are right. It means that a single Troop slot may be ONE of the following units. You'll have to take ANOTHER Troops slot to take another unit of the same or different.

In other words, you cannot use 1 Troops slot to get 2 units. Kinda weird wording though.

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Ah, I think I get you. We were on different wavelengths there for a second.

I suspect that future codexes may get rid of the force slots on the datasheets (so a Tac squad may not mention that's it's a Troop choice), and restrict which slots each unit goes into via this kind of chart.

As mentioned, the "one of the following" is in reference that for a single troop slot, you may take one of the following troops: jetbikes, guardians, wyches, warriors, harlequin troupe, etc etc.

In regards to tactics, I'm already drawing up quite a few different lists. I expect to see more double D wraithknights, since soulburst is an amazing rule for them.
Likewise, double farseers, maybe a shadowseer with a D cannon vaul's wrath unit for veil & board presence.

The warlord traits are the standout winner I think. I'll always take a farseer for warlord with the spirit stone of anathlan, if only to attempt to select my powers. Most likely invisibility, word of the phoenix, and then whatever suits my needs for the match or list.
Phoenix is probably the best sleeper power, being able to shunt a wraithknight 24" between movement and a free soulburst that can then shoot and charge? Or give a free soulburst to a unit that needs it? Can't complain about that, especially if you manage to make it WC1 instead of 2.

Lastly, seer councils got slightly better. Giving one of the farseers in the council the Last Shroud might be a good idea to get around losing their IC status. In exchange, you've now got a farseer with eternal warrior, fnp, and iwnd embedded in a large unit for free. Can't complain about that.



Really, Ynnari will revolutionize competitive eldar & harlequins. Dark eldar I might use to remake my old beastpack.
Did we also mention how we are no longer afraid of genestealers? Soulburst helps tremendously in that match up now.

My short term plan is to get a wraightlord, paint it like a mix between harlequin and ynarri, and add it to my Harlequin army.
With two missile launchers (not sure of the exact name, the ones that have 3 firing modes, one being a Str7 Skyfire shot), it should give an actual anti-air option, as well as a pretty durable unit (by Harlequin standard). With the big sword and a cool paintjob, it should fit pretty nicely into my Harlequin force too.