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Let's look at Mind Wrath in conjunction with Cleansing Flame:
Cleansing Hypernova: S: Destroyer, AP:5, 18", Nova, Assault 2d6
Christ......
That's an average of 7 Destroyer hits to every unit in 18" (about an average of 28 wounds/ hull points to single model units like vehicles and superheavies)
That's patently absurd.

Holy....

Sigh.

I am running Magnus, but I am not using mind wrath on the witch fire sub types.
D nova is just broken.

To be fair, Magnus is SUPPOSED to be busted at Psychic powers.

This is how we found him in test games.
With certain powers his damage output can be insane.

Including levelling a reaver at one point.



Now considering most 30k armies have little to no anti psyker to them, this is an issue.
Most people I've seen are running sisters of silence to try and shut him down.

Given how easy it is to build a thousand sons warp charge farm (I mean army) he will just use as much as he can get.

Do you know what 7 Destroyer hits do to a squad of Marines?

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Do you know what 7 Destroyer hits do to a squad of Marines?

When they're AP4 or AP5 as with every Nova Magnus has access to, not as much as you'd fear honestly. You'll kill three on average (you round out to about one 6, one 1 and five 2-5s, forcing two unsaved wounds against 3+ armour) which is still nasty, but for things like Terminators the Biomancy power Smite is the best bet as it's a flat four Destroyer (if you roll average or above on the 2D6 to determine the Strength value) AP2 shots at Ballistic Skill 5 .

Where the Novas get ridiculous is that it is 2D6 hits against every unit touched, meaning monstrous creatures, vehicles and solo characters (the few that exist) get absolutely devastated as you're averaging one Deathblow against each of those units when Magnus casts any of the Novas. Dropping Magnus in the middle of a tank army can honestly be considered a criminal offence (sarcasm of course) Novas also hit units in combat, Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures....yeah.

Caederes wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Do you know what 7 Destroyer hits do to a squad of Marines?

When they're AP4 or AP5 as with every Nova Magnus has access to, not as much as you'd fear honestly. You'll kill three on average (you round out to about one 6, one 1 and five 2-5s, forcing two unsaved wounds against 3+ armour) which is still nasty, but for things like Terminators the Biomancy power Smite is the best bet as it's a flat four Destroyer (if you roll average or above on the 2D6 to determine the Strength value) AP2 shots at Ballistic Skill 5 .

Where the Novas get ridiculous is that it is 2D6 hits against every unit touched, meaning monstrous creatures, vehicles and solo characters (the few that exist) get absolutely devastated as you're averaging one Deathblow against each of those units when Magnus casts any of the Novas. Dropping Magnus in the middle of a tank army can honestly be considered a criminal offence (sarcasm of course) Novas also hit units in combat, Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures....yeah.

That was my point. Don't try fighting fire with kindling.

Ah I see, fair enough!

... and with that, 20% of players move to Thousand Sons.

Those hits are still AP:4. So there's that.

Strength D hits against armour don't care what AP it is.
It's a fixed damage output.

Against run of the mill troops it means little unless it's a deathblow.
Against AV however, it's not going to end well.

Any superheavies bar a warlord near by will be wrecked by it.




It's more of a big game hunter than a troop killer.

He's on foot, so he's not really dropping next to anything.

Also, the hard answer to Magnus is the same answer to literally everything in the game: Quad-mortars.

If he or no other unit gets invisibility then sure.
If so, best of luck.


And he will never be on his own.
You might want to run the math on quad mortars against him and 5 terminators.
Even with 9 you won't do a great deal.

Ok, math run. 12 quad phospex kill them in one volley.

All I have to do to win is go first, and I'll be taking rerolls on going first and seize.

You need to get in in is, successfully cast it, and go first(which is unlikely, see above). That buys you one turn at a time.

Quadmortars are the most broken thing the game has produced since virus grenade. There's no point in talking about how "overpowered" anything else might be.


PS it's not just the phosphex versions.

Not to rain on your parade, but in Guard of the Crimson King he can Deep Strike alongside Sekhmet. He should kill 1-2 Quad Mortars per unit of three he hits (assuming you are taking 3 units of 3) with a Destroyer Nova regardless of the AP4 thanks to the D3 wounds per unsaved, wounding on a 2+ and Deathblows. And that's just ONE power he can cast. His Sekhmet bodyguards also have Shredding boltguns and can be given Combi weapons. With the Deep Strike, you're not killing him before he casts his powers. If he casts Invisibility, his unit's not dying.

Just saying :p I'm not going to argue that Quad Mortars aren't over powered as they very clearly are, but Magnus can definitely work around them.

Keep in mind that marine phosphex is AP3, so you'll have to stack hits and force saves.

No work out the cost of running 12 phosphex armed mortars.

Now work out the same results if he has invisibility cast.



This is also under the assumption he does DS down and clear a chunk of the field too.

I kinda wanna play thousand sons now. Cheapest army ever all I need to buy is magnus and Scarab Occult Terminators to Sub in as Sehkmet Occult.

Remember when the Heresy was first released and not bloated with GW's patented imbalance? I member.

The second Phosphex quad mortar entered the game, was the second 30k could stop saying it was balanced.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The second Phosphex quad mortar entered the game, was the second 30k could stop saying it was balanced.

Correct. Coincided nicely with all the people who always loved the Death Guard fluff...

Everybody can take quad mortars with phofex, you just need a Siege breaker, so it's kind of balanced still. But they will not kill magnus and the Sekhmet, 'cos of their 2 wounds and 3++ with the ability to get 4+ FNP from Biomancy (i'd have Magnus roll on it). Even if you manage to kill them it'll take multiple turns and no one will allow the mortars to live that long.

On foot? Why would he be on foot...

Kharybdis would be good. Get danger close turn 1. Transport can fit Sekhmet as well.

What happens if after that first turn another primarch gets into him? Haven't done the maths but surely a couple should be able to do the business up close.

I would not recommend getting Magnus into combat with a primarch. With the right spells he can hold his own tho... He might even win, but then you aren't casting witchfires for the rest of the game.

Nebulas1 wrote:
What happens if after that first turn another primarch gets into him? Haven't done the maths but surely a couple should be able to do the business up close.

They'll do nothing, I guess. Magnus with invisibility is non-hittable (only hit on a 6+ and his armour reduces To Hit by 1, changing your 6s into 5s)
Or he'll roll biomancy and have S10, T9, I9, A7, FnP 4+

 Vector Strike wrote:

Nebulas1 wrote:
What happens if after that first turn another primarch gets into him? Haven't done the maths but surely a couple should be able to do the business up close.

They'll do nothing, I guess. Magnus with invisibility is non-hittable (only hit on a 6+ and his armour reduces To Hit by 1, changing your 6s into 5s)
Or he'll roll biomancy and have S10, T9, I9, A7, FnP 4+

Not how modifiers interact with set values in 40k. Emperor damned AoS players!

Also, Magnus rolls Sanctic for both Cleansing flame and Gate - If he gets both (and he should) you're not going to stop him gating out of combat and you're not going to stop him noaing all your toys. Terminator saves are the only thing that's going to save you, and that's what the combi plas on the sekhmet and the other [game size-~1000] points of the Sons army is for.

If the Sons player wants to be a cheesemonger, they have all the tools available to them to do so with little to no recourse from the opposition. On the flipside, Magnus could roll like a slow the whole game and fail to get ay of his noas off, or have them be str [not enough] if he does. I'd be putting my money on the Sons most games though.

Note: In no way do I advocate being a cheesemonger with the sons or any other army, but you can't deny that the option is there, nor that Sons have been a popular legion due to their tragic backstory for many, many years before FW figured out how to print money.

Most are acting like he gets 12 powers he only has so many rolls so he is unlikely to have bio invis and Nova I see him getting at best 2

I'm thinking solo biomancy. But there are good things in telepathy I'd want...hmm

The thing is 20 man marine units will be left with over half their number remaining statistically.
All titans but the Warlord will be ruined, and the Warlord will be left a weeping, bleeding mess quitely gaking itself in the corner. It will have maybe 5 or 6 hp left. And that's if the dice gods don't favor you....