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lol at Corax "favored the censor of Magnus"

1) Didn't the short story in The Primarchs about the EC indicate they didn't make much use of psykers? They were in favor of their use but didn't bother with it...

2) In Know No Fear, RG suggests that Nikea was engineered to deprive the loyalists of the tools to fight daemons... but it looks like traitors were more likely to support their use than oppose. 4 of 7 proponents (not counting Magnus himself) were traitors.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
1) Didn't the short story in The Primarchs about the EC indicate they didn't make much use of psykers? They were in favor of their use but didn't bother with it...

2) In Know No Fear, RG suggests that Nikea was engineered to deprive the loyalists of the tools to fight daemons... but it looks like traitors were more likely to support their use than oppose. 4 of 7 proponents (not counting Magnus himself) were traitors.

except RG's got a point anyway, the primarchs weren't the ones manipulating things, we know from one of the novels that chaos demons where mucking about and made magnus look worse.

"Konrad Curze... supported their use." The idea of how they found that out amuses me greatly.

Terrified Remembrancer: "Umm... Mr. Lord Curze, sir. W-w-what is your stance on the u-use of psykers in th-th-th-the legions?"
Curze (currently flaying some poor soul): "Meh, they're alright."

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
"Konrad Curze... supported their use." The idea of how they found that out amuses me greatly.

Terrified Remembrancer: "Umm... Mr. Lord Curze, sir. W-w-what is your stance on the u-use of psykers in th-th-th-the legions?"
Curze (currently flaying some poor soul): "Meh, they're alright."

Here... Do somthibf useful for once... Pass me the knife over there..

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
"Konrad Curze... supported their use." The idea of how they found that out amuses me greatly.

Terrified Remembrancer: "Umm... Mr. Lord Curze, sir. W-w-what is your stance on the u-use of psykers in th-th-th-the legions?"
Curze (currently flaying some poor soul): "Meh, they're alright."

reasonably easy way to find out, examine their statements, and examine if the Legion has a Librarius

BrianDavion wrote:

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
"Konrad Curze... supported their use." The idea of how they found that out amuses me greatly.

Terrified Remembrancer: "Umm... Mr. Lord Curze, sir. W-w-what is your stance on the u-use of psykers in th-th-th-the legions?"
Curze (currently flaying some poor soul): "Meh, they're alright."

reasonably easy way to find out, examine their statements, and examine if the Legion has a Librarius

I prefer my scenario.

Love that mortarion was "vehemently against" even though he achieved psychic prowess via disease and the gift of nurgle's rot. =P

Leman Russ: Psykers are an abomination, but Rune Priests are alright cause it's not from the warp!

 Drummernathan wrote:
Love that mortarion was "vehemently against" even though he achieved psychic prowess via disease and the gift of nurgle's rot. =P

"DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO!"

 Drummernathan wrote:
Love that mortarion was "vehemently against" even though he achieved psychic prowess via disease and the gift of nurgle's rot. =P

He was tricked in to that by his chief lieutenant, who happened to be a secret psyker. It is a purposeful ironic fate. By the time he accepted those gifts, the Mortarion who was at Nikaea was well gone.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
1) Didn't the short story in The Primarchs about the EC indicate they didn't make much use of psykers? They were in favor of their use but didn't bother with it...

You're right, I don't think I know of any EC psyker mentioned so far in the HH series. I guess it comes down to the EC wanting to use their tools to the best of their capability. It's also, I would imagine, a case of Fulgrim being Fulgrim. Trying to be pally with everyone. Didn't he change his opinion in Prospero Burns and ruled against Magnus?

 EmpNortonII wrote:
2) In Know No Fear, RG suggests that Nikea was engineered to deprive the loyalists of the tools to fight daemons... but it looks like traitors were more likely to support their use than oppose. 4 of 7 proponents (not counting Magnus himself) were traitors.

They were kept away though. If they had all been there they I make it that the For side would have won by one. I've not counted Dorns, Lions or Corax censure of Magnus as a For or Against as it is a bit unclear. You could still support the use of the Librarians but want Magnus to be censored for the shizzle he's been doing.

 Drummernathan wrote:
Love that mortarion was "vehemently against" even though he achieved psychic prowess via disease and the gift of nurgle's rot. =P

Mortarion hated psykers and witches of any kind. He saw the power and the sway that they could hold over people back on Barbarus. His whole route taken on the heresy was to try and get rid of such things but as he followed it's route more and more of the monsters he wanted to be rid of came about and he was backed into a corner so had to adopt it. A read of Daemonology and Scars would shed a bit of light on to his stance. Great reads as well.

 Rippy wrote:

 Drummernathan wrote:
Love that mortarion was "vehemently against" even though he achieved psychic prowess via disease and the gift of nurgle's rot. =P

He was tricked in to that by his chief lieutenant, who happened to be a secret psyker. It is a purposeful ironic fate. By the time he accepted those gifts, the Mortarion who was at Nikaea was well gone.

Truth. And I guess as the death guard we're not known for their librarius as mortarion did hate psykers since the days of his homeworld being oppressed by psychic occultist tyrants that also makes sense. Totally forgot that typhus was the one who "tricked" him into that and thus received the worst of nurgles plague as a sort of "punishment".

 Drummernathan wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 Drummernathan wrote:
Love that mortarion was "vehemently against" even though he achieved psychic prowess via disease and the gift of nurgle's rot. =P

He was tricked in to that by his chief lieutenant, who happened to be a secret psyker. It is a purposeful ironic fate. By the time he accepted those gifts, the Mortarion who was at Nikaea was well gone.

Truth. And I guess as the death guard we're not known for their librarius as mortarion did hate psykers since the days of his homeworld being oppressed by psychic occultist tyrants that also makes sense. Totally forgot that typhus was the one who "tricked" him into that and thus received the worst of nurgles plague as a sort of "punishment".

The word you are looking for is gift
Nurgle's blessing was given to Typhus for delivering him a Demon Primarch and a Legion to turn in to Plague Marines.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
1) Didn't the short story in The Primarchs about the EC indicate they didn't make much use of psykers? They were in favor of their use but didn't bother with it...

You're right, I don't think I know of any EC psyker mentioned so far in the HH series. I guess it comes down to the EC wanting to use their tools to the best of their capability. It's also, I would imagine, a case of Fulgrim being Fulgrim. Trying to be pally with everyone. Didn't he change his opinion in Prospero Burns and ruled against Magnus?

This is actually kind of explained in the first story in The Primarchs. Pskyers are a result of a genetic mutation... an imperfection. The EC weren't big on imperfection.

Well, Lion had an interesting response to a Chaplain who chastised him about the Council of Nikaea.

 TedNugent wrote:
Well, Lion had an interesting response to a Chaplain who chastised him about the Council of Nikaea.

And you thought the Fallen were traitors.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

This is actually kind of explained in the first story in The Primarchs. Pskyers are a result of a genetic mutation... an imperfection. The EC weren't big on imperfection.

Imperfection or enhancement

But yeah, I get you. It's kinda strange though that being a psyker would be frowned upon but having fish gills and an extra multi jointed knocking arm is ok.

Konrad never cared much for psykers and neither did his legion. WTF, FW?

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

This is actually kind of explained in the first story in The Primarchs. Pskyers are a result of a genetic mutation... an imperfection. The EC weren't big on imperfection.

Imperfection or enhancement

But yeah, I get you. It's kinda strange though that being a psyker would be frowned upon but having fish gills and an extra multi jointed knocking arm is ok.

Fish gills and extra arms don't attract daemons to possess you and kill lots of people around you. Being psychic does

tneva82 wrote:


Fish gills and extra arms don't attract daemons to possess you and kill lots of people around you. Being psychic does

I don't know, the other EC might like to have a tango with a Slaaneshi Daemon or twelve

 Abanshee wrote:
Konrad never cared much for psykers and neither did his legion. WTF, FW?

Doesn't mean he didn't publicly support their use. honestly I imagine the Librarius would be able to make night hunter fear tacticvs even more effective.

I'm curious, was this some kind of vote? Surely the Emperor is the final arbiter on, well, anything if he so desires. I'm not being snarky, I genuinely want to know if he let his underlings decide something.

 Abanshee wrote:
Konrad never cared much for psykers and neither did his legion. WTF, FW?

Actually, Curze made quite heavy use of his legion's librarians, as well as any other psyker he could get his hands on. He would have nightly sessions with what he called a, "Sin Eater", who would calm his psyche, relaxing him and keeping him more lucid. The legion's librarians were also used when particular targets needed to be punished, rather than just whole worlds. They'd be forced to live endless nightmares within their own heads until they died.

Some fiction writers would've favored the "show, don't tell" approach and simply write out the council meetings in a narrative crafted sufficiently well enough where readers draw their own conclusions about what each candidate was feeling and thinking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jareddm wrote:

 Abanshee wrote:
Konrad never cared much for psykers and neither did his legion. WTF, FW?

Actually, Curze made quite heavy use of his legion's librarians, as well as any other psyker he could get his hands on. He would have nightly sessions with what he called a, "Sin Eater", who would calm his psyche, relaxing him and keeping him more lucid. The legion's librarians were also used when particular targets needed to be punished, rather than just whole worlds. They'd be forced to live endless nightmares within their own heads until they died.

Oh wow.

They didn't even change the name of Sin Eaters, they just updated the idea for the 40k universe instead of the one they're originally from.

 Kojiro wrote:
I'm curious, was this some kind of vote? Surely the Emperor is the final arbiter on, well, anything if he so desires. I'm not being snarky, I genuinely want to know if he let his underlings decide something.

It was a conclave effectively. The Emperor summoned all the relevant parties to Nikea and, with Malcador the Sigilite convening, sat back and listened to them debate the merits of the use of Psykers in the Imperium. Some of the players were there in person to make their argument, others were delivered via proxy. Whether the Emperor was swayed by any of the arguments, or whether he had already made his decision prior to the Council even convening, is unknown. But certainly there was spirited debate amongst the gathered council. The novel 'A Thousand Sons' depicts the Council from the point of view of Ahriman as he accompanies Magnus to the Council if you want to read some narrative about it.

 Pouncey wrote:
Some fiction writers would've favored the "show, don't tell" approach and simply write out the council meetings in a narrative crafted sufficiently well enough where readers draw their own conclusions about what each candidate was feeling and thinking.

That's what the novels are for. The FW books are written more as historical documents, 'facts' as seen through the lens of hindsight, as opposed to the subjective views of the novels.

ImAGeek wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Some fiction writers would've favored the "show, don't tell" approach and simply write out the council meetings in a narrative crafted sufficiently well enough where readers draw their own conclusions about what each candidate was feeling and thinking.

That's what the novels are for. The FW books are written more as historical documents, 'facts' as seen through the lens of hindsight, as opposed to the subjective views of the novels.

Indeed. It's explicitly mentioned in the preface of each book, that the author is writing from first hand experience of the events. Obviously, that would mean their words do have a slight interpretive bias, but the author is aware of this and notes that their intention is not to idealise or condemn (Which they predict will occur), but simply to document the cold facts as they happened from the perspective of an unaugmented human.

The novels on the other hand, usually tell the story from a more personal perspective of each character and are biased to the ways in which they perceived their, and other's, actions.

 Pouncey wrote:
Some fiction writers would've favored the "show, don't tell" approach and simply write out the council meetings in a narrative crafted sufficiently well enough where readers draw their own conclusions about what each candidate was feeling and thinking..

Those very same fiction writers would've missed the point of the Black Books then, because they are, as per Alan Bligh, intended to be historic documentations with a neutral as possible viewpoint on the Heresy and its unfolding. It is not intended to be read as a novel, novella, epos, poem or whatever, but as a fictitious, historic document. This tabel of votes and opinions is about as perfect for that intended purpose as it can be.

 Pouncey wrote:

Oh wow.

They didn't even change the name of Sin Eaters, they just updated the idea for the 40k universe instead of the one they're originally from.

You mean, uh, ours? Please don't tell you think white wolf invented them all their own.