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I am having a brain fart issue today. I have memory issues but for some reason, I can't remember Age of Sigmar terminology. So I am always forgetting what Battleline is or exactly what Behemoths are. So only thing I seem to remember is 40K FOC. So in terms of HQ, Troops etc, can someone explain to me the Age of Sigmar equivalents please.

My play group says this needs to be Battlelne or that needs to be a Leader bu I don't know why this is so hard for me to grasp, but still a year and playing a few games, I feel like I am back to square one not understanding. So I am hoping someone puts this in 40K terms for me, I can finally start making armies and start playing more.

Battleline is basically the "Core Tax", or, for 40k terms, your 2 Troops etc. CAD (2 for 1000, 3 for 2000, etc.) that you "must" field

Behemoths are basically anything with a Monster keyword, I'm not sure if there's actually a "behemoth" keyword, but its basically anything that has a profile that gets progressively worse as it takes damage.

So i have a question, where does it state in the rule book about certain units becoming battlelines if said army is of one type. IE Skull crushers are battle line if Khorne mortal and general is Lord on juggy? I have always been curious where it states the definition.

thanks

Thank you Wyane. So if it's not a Leader, Battleline or Behemoth it is considered other then?

I have seen something like in Beastclaw Riders it is considered Behemoth unless I use the Beastclaw Rider allegiance ability then they become Battleline. So is that how you get away from having more than 2 behemoths, since they are considered Battleline now?

Correct, if it's not Leader/Behemoth/Battleline it's "Other" (basically no restriction). I'm not 100% sure for Beastclaws, but I think it still counts as a Behemoth, so in a 2k point game you're still limited to 4, Battleline or not, they just will also count as Battleline units.

What typically will happen is you'll see something like:

BATTLELINE if <Condition> which means what it says. So for example, to take what @Blueguy203 said, Skull Crushers are Battleline if Khorne Mortal (your entire force is made up of models with both the KHORNE and MORTAL keyword i.e. no daemons) and your general is a Lord on Juggernaut. In that case, you get Skull Crushers as Battleline, if you don't meet that (for example you have mixed Khorne Bloodbound and Daemons) then you can't use Skullcrushers as Battleline.

It can get tricky because even adding one thing to your force that has a different keyword means you need to take "basic" things as Battleline (i.e. things that are straight Battleline, without a condition). So for example, if you take an all Khorne Mortal force but add a Bloodthirster, now you no longer have Khorne Mortal allegiance (since the Bloodthirster has the Khorne keyword, but not the Mortal one)

To throw another wrench into it, there's a rarely used variant called "Points Only" which basically waives any restriction (so no Battleline, no restriction on Behemoths etc.) just straight points (so you could field a 2000 point army of 4 Behemoths that cost 500 points each, for instance), however it's rarely used.

"Points Only" is the default game mode in my local GW. If it's rarely used or not is going to be locally subjective :-)

 Bottle wrote:
"Points Only" is the default game mode in my local GW. If it's rarely used or not is going to be locally subjective :-)

The fact remains it's typically more rare than the default Pitched Battle, I would say in this case that your GW is the exception rather than the rule

Only going from the internet, none of the regulars in my GW frequent forums or any social media warhammer group either, so it could be a popular game mode if there are other groups like mine. I do acknowledge that from what is visible through the Internet it doesn't get as much talk as pitched battles, but then there's not much to say on the game mode, it is what it is, open, narrative or matched play with points and no other pitched battle rules. Every time someone says "we use points with the narrative battleplans", they are playing points only games even if it's not explicit.

Anyway, all I really wanted to add to the thread is points only battles are fun too, so people should give them a shot! :-)

 Bottle wrote:
Only going from the internet, none of the regulars in my GW frequent forums or any social media warhammer group either, so it could be a popular game mode if there are other groups like mine. I do acknowledge that from what is visible through the Internet it doesn't get as much talk as pitched battles, but then there's not much to say on the game mode, it is what it is, open, narrative or matched play with points and no other pitched battle rules. Every time someone says "we use points with the narrative battleplans", they are playing points only games even if it's not explicit.

Anyway, all I really wanted to add to the thread is points only battles are fun too, so people should give them a shot! :-)

100% agree

Correct, if it's not Leader/Behemoth/Battleline it's "Other" (basically no restriction)

There is Artillery as well as other.

I have seen something like in Beastclaw Riders it is considered Behemoth unless I use the Beastclaw Rider allegiance ability then they become Battleline. So is that how you get away from having more than 2 behemoths, since they are considered Battleline now?

As wayne said the best claw tome may say something different, but as a generalisation if the GHB shows something as behemoth then it will remain that even if it counts as battleline as well due to allegiance, becoming battleine for staying in one allegience does not also remove the behemoth type.

That means you won't have to take weaker battleline to make up the minimum battleline requirement, but it won't let you take more behemoths.

You can, however, rarely get more than 4 'monsters'. Not all monsters count as behemoth (e.g. Khorgoraths) though that is very rare.

Thanks again everyone. Yeah where I play most people play with points. Only two others don't play yet with points. I guess that is why I don't play with points since my old brain can't figure it out, but some people make it so simple I just feel weird not understanding.

I have to find my Beastclaw Riders book. Once I find it I will ask the question and you can help me again.

Finally found my General's Handbook. For Stonehorn Beastriders and Thundertusk Beastriders the Battlefield roll is Behemoth. If it has Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance it is Battleline.

So do I take this that this doesn't count for Behemoth since it says Battleline only. So in a 1000 point game I am using the Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance and then I I can have 2 Thundertusk Beastriders because they will become Battleline instead of Behemoth and then I can have a Huskard on Thundertusk because it is Leader, Behemoth.

Is this correct even though a 1000 point Vanguard game says only 0-2 Behemoths are allowed? The Thundertusk Beastriders battlefield roll changes to Battleline instead of Behemoth.

Davor wrote:
Finally found my General's Handbook. For Stonehorn Beastriders and Thundertusk Beastriders the Battlefield roll is Behemoth. If it has Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance it is Battleline.

So do I take this that this doesn't count for Behemoth since it says Battleline only. So in a 1000 point game I am using the Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance and then I I can have 2 Thundertusk Beastriders because they will become Battleline instead of Behemoth and then I can have a Huskard on Thundertusk because it is Leader, Behemoth.

Is this correct even though a 1000 point Vanguard game says only 0-2 Behemoths are allowed? The Thundertusk Beastriders battlefield roll changes to Battleline instead of Behemoth.

I am not 100% sure on this, to be honest. It seems like it becomes Battleline instead of Behemoth (this is how it works for the units with no battlefield role if they become battleline), but I can't think of any other example where a non-"Other" unit becomes Battleline. So I can't definitively give an answer.

Davor wrote:
Finally found my General's Handbook. For Stonehorn Beastriders and Thundertusk Beastriders the Battlefield roll is Behemoth. If it has Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance it is Battleline.

So do I take this that this doesn't count for Behemoth since it says Battleline only. So in a 1000 point game I am using the Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance and then I I can have 2 Thundertusk Beastriders because they will become Battleline instead of Behemoth and then I can have a Huskard on Thundertusk because it is Leader, Behemoth.

Is this correct even though a 1000 point Vanguard game says only 0-2 Behemoths are allowed? The Thundertusk Beastriders battlefield roll changes to Battleline instead of Behemoth.

Nope, it still counts as a Behemoth, Battleline is an addition not something that replaces, it GAINS battleline

So you'd still be limited to Two Thundertusks, battleline or no.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Davor wrote:
Finally found my General's Handbook. For Stonehorn Beastriders and Thundertusk Beastriders the Battlefield roll is Behemoth. If it has Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance it is Battleline.

So do I take this that this doesn't count for Behemoth since it says Battleline only. So in a 1000 point game I am using the Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance and then I I can have 2 Thundertusk Beastriders because they will become Battleline instead of Behemoth and then I can have a Huskard on Thundertusk because it is Leader, Behemoth.

Is this correct even though a 1000 point Vanguard game says only 0-2 Behemoths are allowed? The Thundertusk Beastriders battlefield roll changes to Battleline instead of Behemoth.

Nope, it still counts as a Behemoth, Battleline is an addition not something that replaces, it GAINS battleline

So you'd still be limited to Two Thundertusks, battleline or no.

This definitely sounds like the most balanced way, so I'm glad

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Davor wrote:
Finally found my General's Handbook. For Stonehorn Beastriders and Thundertusk Beastriders the Battlefield roll is Behemoth. If it has Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance it is Battleline.

So do I take this that this doesn't count for Behemoth since it says Battleline only. So in a 1000 point game I am using the Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance and then I I can have 2 Thundertusk Beastriders because they will become Battleline instead of Behemoth and then I can have a Huskard on Thundertusk because it is Leader, Behemoth.

Is this correct even though a 1000 point Vanguard game says only 0-2 Behemoths are allowed? The Thundertusk Beastriders battlefield roll changes to Battleline instead of Behemoth.

Nope, it still counts as a Behemoth, Battleline is an addition not something that replaces, it GAINS battleline

So you'd still be limited to Two Thundertusks, battleline or no.

First of, thank you for taking your time to help me out. I really appreciate it. I am not saying you are wrong, I am really trying to learn and understand. If it is gained then I am confused. If we go to page 140 in the Generals Handbook, under Order we can see Celestial Hurricanum and Luminark of Hysh, they are Behemoths, but if they are carrying a White Battlemage or Celistial Battlemage respectively they become Leader, Behemoth. So to me this is gained.

For Destruction page 137, the Stonehorn Beastriders and Thundertusk Beastriders if Beastclaw Raiders Allegiance just become Battleline. To me it seems it is totally changed and nothing is gained.

So do they really gain it and it is a misprint then? Again not arguing, but trying to understand because the Order example I showed seems to say it's not so.

It's likely overlooked because it's the only two Behemoth models that gain Battleline. hopefully it'll be rectified or answered in GHB2, but to be fairly honest Beastclaw is strong enough as it is.

Even in the AoS app it adds battleline under behemoth, so it appears it adds to instead of replacing. But having a stonehorn as a battleline unit is still pretty awesome.

Haven't really noticed a good reason for battleline units except to keep people from taking min/max lists. Most tourney use GH pitched battle scenarios and really only comes into play for escalation.

The rules for the new Escalation (as outlined in the FAQ 1.1) specifically mentions models that are both Battleline and Behemoth, and as these are the only candidates for being both it is definitely the intended ruling.

So it's a misprint then in the General's Handbook. Can someone who knows how contact GW and let them know this please. I don't know how social media or proper way of contacting someone without writing an actual letter would do it these days.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Even in the AoS app it adds battleline under behemoth, so it appears it adds to instead of replacing. But having a stonehorn as a battleline unit is still pretty awesome.

Haven't really noticed a good reason for battleline units except to keep people from taking min/max lists. Most tourney use GH pitched battle scenarios and really only comes into play for escalation.

When you say AoS app, do you mean the General Handbook bought through the AoS app? Since I don't have point costs in my AoS app because I didn't buy anything, I can't see it.

Yes. When you have the digital version of the GHB it gives you the profiles and role as well as point costs.

So apparently someone asked GW via Facebook it looks like, and GW states that Battleline REPLACES Behemoth.Take that as you will, but that's the statement from "Nick" who is apparently the GW FAQ guy.Of course was not in official publication, but that was what they answered.

The GW facebook responses have in the past contradicted themselves before or gone against FAQ answers, so I have no faith in that.

However the other part of me realizes how busted that would be so its probably how it will end up working lol.

 auticus wrote:
The GW facebook responses have in the past contradicted themselves before or gone against FAQ answers, so I have no faith in that.

However the other part of me realizes how busted that would be so its probably how it will end up working lol.

Lately the Facebook pages have been saying they can't officially answer a rules question. Their replies usually look something like this...

I'm afraid we are not the rules writers, so we can't give an official ruling here. We'll pass this on to the guys in the studio for potential FAQ.

Someone had a screenshot of a reply (looked like an actual Facebook IM, not like a comment on the page) from "Nick" who apparently is the guy who writes the FAQ (no idea if he's on the design team or what) who basically said yes that's right, none of this "We aren't the rules team" or anything, just a straight up answer.

I'd still be pretty dubious about accepting a Facebook response as an override to the rules.

 EnTyme wrote:
I'd still be pretty dubious about accepting a Facebook response as an override to the rules.

Why would it be an override to the rules? If in the same book they take a Behemoth creature add to it, and then it becomes Behemoth, Leader, but in the case of Beastclaw Riders it is changed from Behemoth to Battleline, how is that overriding the rules? Why keep Behemoth for one, but not for the other and still be considered Behemoth? So it's the way Facebook says or it's a printing error in the book.

So again how is it overriding the rules?

If I'm reading it right: to add another kink:

If you're using summonable units paid from from Reinforcement Points they don't alter your initial forces alignment.

eg. You can have a nurgle, mortal army, and summon the daemons you want during the game and still have your blightkings count as battleline.