Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm getting back into 40K after losing interest in Necrons and trying AoS (I enjoy the models and lore more in 40K) I was wondering how I should go about building a Death Guard CSM army.

I'm starting with 500 points because me and my brother feel it's a good starting point. I assume I should buy DV, but are cultists worth using? What should I buy after DV, more marines?

Tell me what you know about unit sizes, weapon choices, and whatever else you think I should know.

Also, could someone with CSM/CSM Death Guard experience provide a good 1500 point list?

Hello!
I would start getting a CSM codex and a Traitor legion codex. In traitor legion death guard has become quite strong and competitive with FnP on all Nurgle marked units with rerolls of 1.

I just started up again after 3 year break, and i have found the new DG really fun to play. I can come with a few pointers.

If i were to start DG, i would get a chaos warband from traitor legions. It would have to consist of at least; 1 Lord, 1 unit of chosen, 2 units of CSM, 1 unit of either bikes, raptors or warp talons and a hellbrute or a unit of havocs. And one auxiliary choice of for example a unit of nurgle spawn.

If you want a competitive army you should get regular CSM, bikers, spawn, havocs and helldrakes. Cultists are ok too. So DV is a good place to start, i had a lot of fun converting DA bikes to chaos bikes. DA marines can be converted as well.

Hey;
-Alternate take? No offense penguin, our views are equally valuable?

-As someone who has watched many fledgling Chaos players start off; I can't advise buying in with DV; unless you want to spend a lot following up. In my opinion; Chaos got boned BIG TIME in that box set; and chaos players I see starting with those guys just seem to get frustrated at the flimsy infantry; and overpriced, lackluster and frankly identity-confused Chosen.

The chosen can't decide what they want to attack; having one of every type of power weapon. good for demonstrating the difference between the power weapons; but premium priced disappointment tableside. those cultists will die. horribly. in larger games; they're cheap obsec units; that will be largely ignored. at 500pts; they're a mass of troops; and will be slaughtered.

your instinct to grab marines is good. these are your bread n butter. made tougher by death guard. this is where I'd start. avoid the aesthetically cool heavy bolter. everyone builds him; but boy oh boy does he suck. equip with bolters too. extra attacks for a shorter range shooting, for more points, in a shooting edition, is just simply a rip off. anyone swinging for you in close combat at these points is going to be dedicated assault, and will kick you chaotic power-armoured ass.

-above advice is actually quite strong though. warbands are strong; but aren't gonna fit a 500pts list.
the books are always a good buy.

bikers are tough. plus Nurgle and a feel no pain from death guard and we're dealing crazy tough.

Marines are your go to at 500pts the strength and durability of your infantry is key.

-get something that appeals to you. if you want to insta win against 90% of people; head up with a winged daemon prince? otherwise consider daemon engines? Mauler/forgefiends might be fun at 500 as a beautiful center peice to the new collection? Heldrakes are crazy competitive in lower point games. and look hella badass. if expecting to fight a lot of space marines; Defilers are pretty cool, and can be scary.

havocs with autocannons are not to be under estimated...

-think that's it from me? more than happy to coe back when you draft something?

Hope this helps?
GamerGuy

 GamerGuy wrote:
snip


-think that's it from me? more than happy to coe back when you draft something?

Hope this helps?
GamerGuy

Are there any other boxes you think might be good for getting some units together?

How large should my CSM units be? What special weapon should I give them? What heavy should I give if 10 man squads are worth it? How should I arm the Aspiring champion? Is the AS optional?

Should I go for the Death Guard Vectorium, or some other formation/detatchement? It's of significant concern since it greatly affects what I can have.

Kind of glad you suggested against DV, as I didn't like the cultists or chosen all that much.

Based on some point costs, might end up reaching 1500 sooner than anticipated.

Its good to get more views on how to start up. Let me get in to why i like dark vengeance and why i recently got my third DV Chaos set (One complete DV and two trading to get just the chaos units). DV gives you a lot of good starting units. The chosen are not a unit you want to field as gamerguy is saying, they are a overpriced cc unit. But you get two Chosen with just a bolter, those are good for being Aspiring champions in CSM squads, and yes you have to bring an champion in all infantry squads. I usually leave them with just a bolter.

The other chosen are a bit useless the wat they are kitted, but the models are beautiful. So i converted the mace chosen to an apostle to bring with my 60 cultists. I agree with gamerguy on the cultists as well, in 500 pts games they are not good for anything other than holding a backfield objective.

The hellbrute is a ok unit if you give him a lascannon, he has trouble getting in range for the multi melta imo.

Death Guard Vectorium is a great detachment, but you have to bring an entire warband and a auxiliary to be able to get its benefits. You also have to bring a chosen unit, i usually give them a rhino, 4 meltas and leave the champ with a bolter.

The plus side of bringing 9 CSM and a champ is that you can bring a plasma gun and an autocannon or heavy bolter and they all fit in a rhino, but its an expensive squad. If you bring them in the vectorium they have relentless, so the heavy weapon can move and shoot and charge. with a autocannon thats 240 pts.

 killerpenguin wrote:
Its good to get more views on how to start up. Let me get in to why i like dark vengeance and why i recently got my third DV Chaos set (One complete DV and two trading to get just the chaos units). DV gives you a lot of good starting units. The chosen are not a unit you want to field as gamerguy is saying, they are a overpriced cc unit. But you get two Chosen with just a bolter, those are good for being Aspiring champions in CSM squads, and yes you have to bring an champion in all infantry squads. I usually leave them with just a bolter.

The other chosen are a bit useless the wat they are kitted, but the models are beautiful. So i converted the mace chosen to an apostle to bring with my 60 cultists. I agree with gamerguy on the cultists as well, in 500 pts games they are not good for anything other than holding a backfield objective.

The hellbrute is a ok unit if you give him a lascannon, he has trouble getting in range for the multi melta imo.

Death Guard Vectorium is a great detachment, but you have to bring an entire warband and a auxiliary to be able to get its benefits. You also have to bring a chosen unit, i usually give them a rhino, 4 meltas and leave the champ with a bolter.

The plus side of bringing 9 CSM and a champ is that you can bring a plasma gun and an autocannon or heavy bolter and they all fit in a rhino, but its an expensive squad. If you bring them in the vectorium they have relentless, so the heavy weapon can move and shoot and charge. with a autocannon thats 240 pts.

According to army builder I can take terminators instead of chosen to fulfill the warband requirements, also vectorium doesn't give them relentless, that's just one of the buffs from making your primary detachment a DG detachment, Vectorium lets you reroll FNP rolls of 1, they get stealth if shot at from 18" or more away, and the warlord can reroll their nurgley warlord trait. I'm indecisive and could keep the cultists or sell them if I change my mind and go for DV. It could still be a good idea so I can get the chosen, terminators, bikers, CL, chaplain to sorcerer, and marines. Maybe I'll keep the cultists or sell them.

Thais is all true, posessed can be taken as well. Termies with FnP is really strong.

What i like about cultists as DG is the poxwalker hive and The lost and the damned auxiliary. U need to bring an apostle and 4 cultist units, and if a unit gets destroyed, it comes back on a 4+ with outflank. They also get zealot in a bubble around the apostle. They are also cheap troop units if you just want the cheapest troos to bring other stuff.

To give you and idea of how (in my opinion) pretty competitive 1000 pts list would look like, im playing against a friend in a few days and im bringing this.

DG 1k (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2023) (998pts)

CSM Death Guard Vectorium

Force Options (Supplement options here)
Death Guard
Core (962pts)

Chaos Warband (962pts)

Chaos Bikers (103pts)
Mark of Nurgle (18pts), Plasma Gun (15pts), Veterans of the Long War
2x Chaos Biker (40pts)
2x Bolt Pistol, 2x Close Combat Weapon, 2x Combi-bolter on Bike, 2x Frag and Krak Grenades
Chaos Biker Champion (30pts)
Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Combi-bolter on Bike, Frag and Krak Grenades

Chaos Lord (98pts)
Combi-bolter (3pts), Mark of Nurgle (15pts), Power Sword (15pts), Veterans of the Long War, Warlord
Power Armour
Frag and Krak Grenades

Chaos Space Marines (230pts)
Heavy Bolter (10pts), Mark of Nurgle (30pts), Plasma Gun (15pts), Veterans of the Long War
Aspiring Champion (23pts)
Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades
9x Chaos Marine with Boltgun (117pts)
9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Boltgun, 9x Frag and Krak Grenades
Chaos Rhino (35pts)
Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers

Chaos Space Marines (230pts)
Heavy Bolter (10pts), Mark of Nurgle (30pts), Plasma Gun (15pts), Veterans of the Long War
Aspiring Champion (23pts)
Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades
9x Chaos Marine with Boltgun (117pts)
9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Boltgun, 9x Frag and Krak Grenades
Chaos Rhino (35pts)
Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers

Chosen (176pts)
Mark of Nurgle (18pts), Missile launcher (with frag and krak) (15pts), Veterans of the Long War
Chaos Rhino (35pts)
Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers
Chosen Champion (18pts)
Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades
5x Chosen with Boltgun, CCW and Boltpistol (90pts)
5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Close Combat Weapon, 5x Frag and Krak Grenades

Helbrute (125pts)
Power fist, Twin-linked lascannon (25pts)

Auxiliary (36pts)
Spawn (36pts)
Chaos Spawn (36pts)
Mark of Nurgle (6pts), Spawn (30pts)

I would also offer that converting the DV Chosen is very easy; it's literally just snipping weapons/hands and adding the desired piece. Those are some of our best sculpts from GW. I would even go so far as to suggest buying the entire box. While the Dark Angel stuff takes some more effort to convert, it gives your bikes, marines, and either Chaos Lords/Sorcerers with a little green stuff or shaving of the DA emblems. Might not be worth the effort for you, but just some thoughts and advice.

I've ordered DV and a game store has the books on order so that they can ship them to me.

nvm

My brother's playing Skitarii, which seem to be incredibly good. If he gets to shoot first my unit of CSM is completely wiped out by his vanguard.

How can I beat him? I don't want to tailor my list to him as I'd like to be good against everything.

If I take the cultists in a LoTD formation, and attach it to my Vectorium, will I have to give the cultists the Mark of Nurgle prior to zombifying them?

Might not work at your point level, but you could always take alpha legion LoTD formation, and then Typhus as your warlord for your Nurgle Band. He makes them all zombies by default due to his ability being army-wide and not detachment restricted, and you get to infiltrate them.

I never run cultists unless I'm REALLY strapped for points. But that's mostly because I play both CSM and Renegades and Heretics, and the R&H infantry is so much better

I'm thinking I'll either sell or not build (for now) the cultists since it would cost me 480 points to include them in a vectorium.

I also have difficulty including cultists in my death guard army, because I usually play 1850, and the helldrakes are sommuch better. I would probably add lost and the damned if I were playing above 2000 points.

Strong units for deathguard are:

- plaguemarines or marked marines in rhinos with metlaguns/other - spec weps
- havocs with auto cannons
- obilterators
- bikers
- daemon princes with wings and a beatstick artefact

any army you do if you wanna go competitive would do well to encompass the above.

I think the vectorium is definitely worth running.

Terminators aren't too terrible when they have FNP re-rolling 1's, you could take a single unit of 3 with combi-meltas to threaten a vehicle or MC.

Min sized squads of tacs are probably best, everything in the warband has obsec so you want to zoom around in rhinos and camp on objectives being survivable. I think plasma guns may shine here as they match range with bolters, you're unlikely to die to Gets Hot and you can double-tap and charge (relentless).

Havocs with autocannons seems like plenty of dakka.

Bikes. Bikesbikesbikes. Did I mention Bikes? Your chaos lord should be on one. Sorceror on bike maybe too (the nurgle powers are good close-in). T6, 3+, Jink (with +1 over 18"), FnP re-roll 1's... grief. Tank up front with your warlord and heal him with your Sorceror if you get that power.

So... which auxiliaries?

I am leaning towards Cult of Destruction (T5, 2 wound, 2+/6++/5+++ obliterators....). Perhaps a unit of 3, with two single models. Gives you decent firepower (shoot twice with the warpsmith's ability!). A very flexible and survivable unit.

If you skimp a bit on the Vectorium you can also fit in a Heldrake terror pack - I love the model, but I'm unsure two is worth the points. I might instead make a CAD, move the sorceror to it and take min cultists as troops to unlock the Heldrake.

Finally, Renegade Knight. More badass shooting, stomping, or access to D. Unsure which is better of the latter 3 options.

 Latro_ wrote:
Strong units for deathguard are:

- plaguemarines or marked marines in rhinos with metlaguns/other - spec weps
- havocs with auto cannons
- obilterators
- bikers
- daemon princes with wings and a beatstick artefact

any army you do if you wanna go competitive would do well to encompass the above.

Agreed

I would pick regular nurgle marines over plague marines, unless you really like the poisoned 4+. Also, CSM can take heavy weapons if you get a squad of 10.

Maulerfiends are really good. I'm thinking about getting 3 of them for a warpack.

So beyond more marines and rhinos, where to now? Maulerfiends? Terminators? Obliterators? Havocs? Bikers? A Deamon Prince?

Bikers should be #1 on that list. They're tough and you can bring them msu or deathstar.

Daemon Prince is a close second. Nurgle DP gets to jink for a 2+ cover save, I would take the Pandemic Staff on him for strength 8, ap2 attacks in combat + the shooting attack it gives you, gives you more options to kill units. ML3 and roll on Nurgle powers, hoping for Curse of Leper and Gift of Contagion, to lower your opponents str/tough + psychic shriek

Jump over, Curse or Gift, depending what you roll, Nurgle Nova, Psychic Shriek. Shooting phase, you fire your pandemic staff template, then assault phase you charge and clean up the unit.

As requested and because I'm bored at work here is a 1500 pt competitive list I've come up with:
--Death Guard Vectorium--
-Chaos Warband-
Chaos Lord - PF, MoN, Bike 125pts
Chaos Sorcerer - MoN, Force Axe, Spell Familiar, Meltabombs 145pts
2x 5 Bikes - MoN, 2 Meltaguns 160pts ea.
3 Terminators - MoN, 3 Combi-Meltas 130pts
5 Havoks - MoN, 4 Autocannons 130pts
5 Marines - Rhino, Plasma 140pts
5 Marines - Rhino, Flamer 130pts
-Lord of the Legion-
Daemon Prince - Nurgle, Wings, Power Armour, ML3, Spell Familiar, The Pandemic Staff 340pts
-Auxillary-
Chaos Spawn - MoN 36pts
Total - 1496

Lord/Sorcerer hang out with one of the bike squads.
Roll on Nurgle or Telepathy, always jink with the DP, if he's at risk of being shot off the table T1 then put him in reserve.
The spawn is tax but still fast and resilient, use as a distraction or to take Overwatch shots.
The 3 man termicide unit is Tax. They DS in, kill that one thing with the melta (or at least try), and they die. If they live longer than that following turn then bonus points (Nurgle has a better chance).

Also if you haven't been already PLAY OBJECTIVES all too often new players just keep playing "Kill each other" the Advantage of the warband is that everything is Objective Secured. Roll on an Eternal War mission or Maelstrom and play the objectives. I've lost to 3 models before so it's very important for new players!

At 1500, I don't roll with the Vectorium, I feel like its too restrictive. I'm currently running the following list, not solely death guard, but about half.

Death Guard CAD

Sorcerer: ML3, Spell Familiar, MoN, Bike, Blight Grenades

Sorcerer: ML3, Spell Familiar, MoN, Bike

CSM Squad: MoN, Plasma

CSM Squad: MoN, Melta

5 Bikers: MoN, 2 Plasma

ADL: Quad Gun

Night Lords Detachment
Sorcerer: ML3, Spell Familiar, Bike, SoC

Cultists

Purge Detachment Renegades and Heretics
Command Squad

10 Zombies
10 Zombies
10 Zombies

3 Chaos Spawn
3 Chaos Spawn

Earthshaker
Earthshaker
Medusa Siege Cannon
3 Rapiers: 1 extra crew, militia training

All the sorcerers run with the bike squad who are screened by one of my spawn squads. NL sorc rolls all Biomancy and the others try to get the lowering toughness powers from nurgle. Anything T6 with multiple wounds gets its toughness lowered and then shot with the Medusa, the biker squad ends up instakilling t4 in combat if powers go right and the NL sorc takes challenges + give the unit stealth.

Here's what I have so far with the green stuff. I plan to add more, to the legs and such. After these guys I've got 5 termies, 3 bikes, chaplain to sorcerer, Chaos Lord, Aspiring Champion.

Get some Typhus Corrosion for doing your rusty metalwork - it's a great technical paint. You can drybrush it on or paint it on for more corroded bits.

I use this guide for painting quick nurgle marines:

http://www.spruegrey.com/warhammer-40000-death-guard-painting-tutorial/

Really quick and easy way to get squads done.