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Hey guys, I recently got back into warhammer (2 months ago) I've since constructed an 1850 point Necron army (really enjoying them). Played about 10 games thus far already. I'd like to do a second army, partially for change of pace when I need a break from my Steel Skeletons, and partially so I can introduce friends to the hobby by playing with another army instead of having to invest so much from scratch.

My question is, whats your feedback on these three! I'm interested in all 3, each for various reasons, and curious what you guys think!

Grey Knights - Costly, but gorgeous models to me.
Dark Eldar - They have a badass feel to them, all their weapons etc look creepy and I kind of like that appeal. Plus their corsair + dark eldar troops bundle is great value.
Tau - Love Tau, only thing is every list I see runs like all crisis suits etc, which i'm not sure im a fan of. Personally I think their tanks are incredibly dope (especially their fire warriors + devilfish bundle)

Additionally, whats your guys thoughts on the Nurgle getting started box? The units seem very unique and fun, but are they trash? I've never seen them used in a nurgle army list before haha.

I'd love to hear all your feedback from your experiences/knowledge!

Thanks guys!

Well, Grey Knights are a super cheap army to collect because they are very elite.

They can work if you are really good with them, but they are all a bit overcosted, Great fun to play against I think.

Dark Eldar are really tough to get the hang of, almost everything in the book has no survivability, lots of poison, and very very very shockingly fast, but almost no survivability. And they are really really weak without allies, same with Grey Knights

Tau are tau, very shooty, lots of fun and different builds. If you use mainly firewarriors in Devilfish its a fun way of nerfing tau down a bit.

Grey knight are extremely boring to play IMHO, very few number of models doesn't help. Many players start them because they're the cheapest army in 40k but abandon that army after a short period, I'd suggest to start them only if you love the models.

Dark eldar are among my fav armies, but they require a lot of experience to play them, so you have to consider that you're going to take a lot of horrible defeats before learning how to play them efficiently. And even after that they would still lose a lot of games, as they require a perfect game by the controlling player and some luck in dice rolling. But with some experience they can be mid tiers, many players have fought just a few games against dark eldars as they're not very popular so they can give them some nice surprises.

Tau have several combinations, I'm not a fan of them but they're certainly more fun to play than other shooty armies like Astra Militarum, they have some variety.

thanks for the feedback thus far! would love more from others! the psykers from Greg knights and dark Eldar intrigue me also

Dark Eldar don't have psykers.

I'd probably recommend Tau as being the fairest fight against your Necrons.

The Nurgle GS box is pretty good. Plague flies are often used in a competitive Nurgle "bus" (I don't use it myself, but people like it). Plaguebearers all have the same ability as Necron Gauss weapons against vehicles, just against close combat. And Nurglings hold objectives and are IMPOSSIBLE to dislodge by shooting. It's a good starting point. I bought two boxes, personally.

Start Collecting Nurgle is a great starting point for Nurgle, plus the Plague Drones are some of my favorite models across all of Warhammer (AoS and 40K).

That aside, If you're looking for variety (which it kinda sounds like you are), maybe consider the Ynneade Reborn Warhost Detachment from Gathering Storm II: Fracturing of Biel-Tan. The formation/detachment allows for units from Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harlequins all in the same formation/detachment.

SG

Tau might give you more mileage than grey Knights. I own both and all I can say is that grey Knights are only good if your there for the modeling. You get so few models and so few builds that you exhaust them quickly after a few games.

You can get roughly 800-850 points out of two Start Collecting Nurgle boxes and start a decent army. From there, if you want to stick with nurgle maybe a daemon prince and you've got a pretty tough army at 1000 points:

HQ:
[325] Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Flight, 2 Greater, 1 Lesser, ML3
[140] Herald of Nurgle, ML2, FNP Locus, Greater
[120] Herald of Nurgle, ML1, Doomsday Bell, Greater

Troops:
[45] Nurglings
[90] Plaguebearers

Fast Attack:
[277] 6x Plague Drones, Upgrade one to Plaguebringer with a Greater Reward.

That puts you at 997 and you have a squad of Plaguebearers and Nurglings that you can summon during the game.

Edit: Thought I should add that I think the Nurgle box is among the best value start collecting boxes, and units are quality. The above army costs somewhere between $170-$200 depending on where you buy it, and I'd certainly have fun playing it. Plague Drones just refuse to die when you stick the FNP Herald with them, Nurglings are great for objectives, and Plaguebearers hold their own against armor. I've bought two of those boxes for myself already.

sirknighter wrote:
Hey guys, I recently got back into warhammer (2 months ago) I've since constructed an 1850 point Necron army (really enjoying them). Played about 10 games thus far already. I'd like to do a second army, partially for change of pace when I need a break from my Steel Skeletons, and partially so I can introduce friends to the hobby by playing with another army instead of having to invest so much from scratch.

My question is, whats your feedback on these three! I'm interested in all 3, each for various reasons, and curious what you guys think!

Grey Knights - Costly, but gorgeous models to me.
Dark Eldar - They have a badass feel to them, all their weapons etc look creepy and I kind of like that appeal. Plus their corsair + dark eldar troops bundle is great value.
Tau - Love Tau, only thing is every list I see runs like all crisis suits etc, which i'm not sure im a fan of. Personally I think their tanks are incredibly dope (especially their fire warriors + devilfish bundle)

Additionally, whats your guys thoughts on the Nurgle getting started box? The units seem very unique and fun, but are they trash? I've never seen them used in a nurgle army list before haha.

I'd love to hear all your feedback from your experiences/knowledge!

Thanks guys!

Of the three choices, the one most likely to be "unique and interesting" as well as aesthetically pleasing is most definitely Dark Eldar, and they have a very good number of answers to a lot of the meta at ITC events, if played the way they can be. If you are looking for competition, take a Riptide Wing, a Stormsurge and some markerdrones and whatever. End of need. its efficacy is pretty well beyond debate, despite its weakensses to swarmy assault. Grey Knights are boss looking but they are not nearly as competitive as one would like them to be. However, if you do take them, invest in Celestine from the Fall of Cadia book. She has VERY strong synergies wit hthat army and is a legal HQ choice for them.

Well I definitly have been scared away from Grey Knights! Everything ive seen from them is theyre not very competitive and get dull quickly due to few models.

So I think i'm going to perhaps look more into Death Watch and Dark Eldar! (And a bit into nurgle, nurgle seems so fun to play! but I dont think i'd enjoy painting them too much).

Only thing with Dark Eldar, looking at the points of their models, i'm going to be flooding a ton of $ into them eh? Even the bundle deal for 10 of their "warriors" and transport its like 135 points total for $55.

Any last feedback from anyone ?

Thanks so much for the current feedback!

Gray knights are fun for a low model count army of elites. want a 2000 point army that will fit in a small case... you can do that. the models are well designed and they are pretty straightforward to play.

DE. one of if not the most difficult armies to play. spikey bits everywhere on their fragile models. they will be an uphill battle to master but if you like painting and having something truly unique in todays metas go for it

tau. do you like gun lines? cause if you want to win you are basically playing a gun line. doing them without crisis suits is hampering yourself but can be done. I like the models and have several thousand points (probably 5-6k) but might put em on the table 3-4 times a year (they are boring to me, both to play and to play against,but I understand not everybody feels that way)

sirknighter wrote:
Well I definitly have been scared away from Grey Knights! Everything ive seen from them is theyre not very competitive and get dull quickly due to few models.

So I think i'm going to perhaps look more into Death Watch and Dark Eldar! (And a bit into nurgle, nurgle seems so fun to play! but I dont think i'd enjoy painting them too much).

Only thing with Dark Eldar, looking at the points of their models, i'm going to be flooding a ton of $ into them eh? Even the bundle deal for 10 of their "warriors" and transport its like 135 points total for $55.

Any last feedback from anyone ?

Thanks so much for the current feedback!

Dark Eldar aren't inexpensive. None of the armies are, though I suppose one can argue for marine armies always sicne they are kind of Cross Platform. Boring but... There. also, Battle Companies with Grav Spam are highly effective. Dark eldar are however one of the most interesting and beautiful lines of models for sure.

Also I dont agree as to their difficulty. the version i play is EXCEPTIONALLY straightforward.

Dark eldar are not among the most expensive armies but not among the cheapest one either, a typical collection of their miniatures requires paying an average amount of money if you make a comparison to other armies.

Some of their most expensive miniatures, like talos and grotesques, can also be converted using cheaper models with great results.

The new game Gangs of Commorragh provides jetbikes with a nice discount, the entire box is cheaper than buying two single reavers boxes but you'll also get the game itself and two kits of hellions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jancoran wrote:


Also I dont agree as to their difficulty. the version i play is EXCEPTIONALLY straightforward.

Playing dark eldar requires experience, even a no brainer can win with eldar, SM; daemons, tau and necrons, but with dark eldar you have to be a skilled player and don't make any mistakes. If played correctly they can be a mid tier army.

Dark Eldar are absolutely not competitive.

As said by blackie, if you do everything perfectly, you will be able to challenge other mid-tier armies. yay.

Only for those who want the hardest challenge really, unless you're only into modelling.



As for other less competitive builds, it happens sometimes that with the right player, the right amount of luck (a lot) and the right mission package, a tournament can be won.
That doesn't make said less competitive build any better, it just goes to show that there's a lot of luck involved.

morgoth wrote:


As said by blackie, if you do everything perfectly, you will be able to challenge other mid-tier armies. yay.

To be honest I only play against mid tier armies. I'm not interested in tournaments, and playing against the cheesiest lists is not fun for both players, unless they both play overpowered lists. I have no problem fighting tau, necron, eldar, SM, but I won't play against the same identical list everytime I face them.

With dark eldar you won't win supercompetitive tournaments but if you play in a friendly environment in which the most cheesiest things are avoided (and IMHO every group of friends should do that) they can beat everyone. I'm not suggesting to ban all the grav and D weapons, scatter bikes, tau big robots, ecc but it's actually very boring to play against the most competitive lists and if you are interested in a balanced game you shouldn't play all those overpowered things. A skilled dark eldar player can defeat a 70% optimized SM, tau, eldar list without relying on an insane amount of luck.

 Blackie wrote:

morgoth wrote:


As said by blackie, if you do everything perfectly, you will be able to challenge other mid-tier armies. yay.

To be honest I only play against mid tier armies. I'm not interested in tournaments, and playing against the cheesiest lists is not fun for both players, unless they both play overpowered lists. I have no problem fighting tau, necron, eldar, SM, but I won't play against the same identical list everytime I face them.

With dark eldar you won't win supercompetitive tournaments but if you play in a friendly environment in which the most cheesiest things are avoided (and IMHO every group of friends should do that) they can beat everyone. I'm not suggesting to ban all the grav and D weapons, scatter bikes, tau big robots, ecc but it's actually very boring to play against the most competitive lists and if you are interested in a balanced game you shouldn't play all those overpowered things. A skilled dark eldar player can defeat a 70% optimized SM, tau, eldar list without relying on an insane amount of luck.

I don't know how anyone could measure 70% optimized, but sure, if they have average non-competitive lists and you're bringing the top of what DE can bring and you're better than your opponent, you definitely don't need that much luck.

With 70% I meant just an evalutaion and not extremely average non competitive lists but actually good ones, just not the most powerful lists they can make, same for DE as we don't actually have some tournaments lists, I haven't seen two DE lists that look the same.

Outside tournaments some cheese is acceptable, the biggest amount of cheese available it's not.

So dark eldar are definitely an army for experienced players but it's not impossible to win with them against good-tough lists.

I would just wait until 8th ed comes out, so you can see which armies get the nerf bat when it's released before rolling the dice with a new army.

 chrispy1991 wrote:
I would just wait until 8th ed comes out, so you can see which armies get the nerf bat when it's released before rolling the dice with a new army.

this. altho if it's anything like Age of Sigmar, they will all be somewhat balanced.

morgoth wrote:
Dark Eldar are absolutely not competitive.

That is false.

 chrispy1991 wrote:
I would just wait until 8th ed comes out, so you can see which armies get the nerf bat when it's released before rolling the dice with a new army.

When is 8th supposed to come out though

 Jancoran wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Dark Eldar are absolutely not competitive.

That is false.

Dude, in every single thread about how an army is not really competitive, you argue that it's actually pretty good.

All the while, nobody apparently manages to do any consistent winning with that army.

So yeah.. I mean your spirit is awesome, but how about you try and base this off actual statistics or really anything but your point of view?

morgoth wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Dark Eldar are absolutely not competitive.

That is false.

Dude, in every single thread about how an army is not really competitive, you argue that it's actually pretty good.

All the while, nobody apparently manages to do any consistent winning with that army.

So yeah.. I mean your spirit is awesome, but how about you try and base this off actual statistics or really anything but your point of view?

I think he's just trying to have an optimistic spin on it so I don't immediately discredit playing them thinking theirs no chance ever.

sirknighter wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Dark Eldar are absolutely not competitive.

That is false.

Dude, in every single thread about how an army is not really competitive, you argue that it's actually pretty good.

All the while, nobody apparently manages to do any consistent winning with that army.

So yeah.. I mean your spirit is awesome, but how about you try and base this off actual statistics or really anything but your point of view?

I think he's just trying to have an optimistic spin on it so I don't immediately discredit playing them thinking theirs no chance ever.

Not necessarily. Jancoran makes a lot of statements that most users don't agree with. Dark Eldar aren't entirely hopeless, but they do suffer pretty harshly. They're in the same boat as Tyranids and Orks, they really only have 1 or 2 competitive builds, if we're talking tournaments.

morgoth wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Dark Eldar are absolutely not competitive.

That is false.

Dude, in every single thread about how an army is not really competitive, you argue that it's actually pretty good.

All the while, nobody apparently manages to do any consistent winning with that army.

So yeah.. I mean your spirit is awesome, but how about you try and base this off actual statistics or really anything but your point of view?

Would actual wins be okay? Lol.

My spirit IS awesome, you're right. I also play the game for the right reason still: to have fun. and I have found a nice balance between having fun and not pissing off every opponent with my list and still winning. and if people were more imaginative, they wouldn't buy into all the internet negativity about...basically everything.

Here's a true fact: at any one time there is only one best army. Every single other army be definition, therefore isn't. So you can whine about that if you want or you can overcome it. That's what i choose to do.

It is patently false that the Dark Eldar are terrible. You can say they are. it just isn't true.

I'd love to see a dark eldar list I will not absolutely crush with a half assed competitive Eldar list. Which isnt top 1 right now thx to ED.

"Every single other army be definition, therefore isn't"

There are degrees of magnitude to this that you seem to forget a lot. This ruffles some people the wrong way. And you are sometimes very vague about how these inferior armies are supposed to proceed. Like now.

Your wins fall into anecdotal evidence. Even if you play a lot of games, it's still just anecdotal unfortunately. That's why mathhammer comes up so much because its universal.

"and if people were more imaginative, they wouldn't buy into all the internet negativity about...basically everything. "

Sorry, I don't think any amount of imagination can save BA. And you have never provided any specifics about BA, either. I know you stated they're not your thing, and that's fine. But BA are literally vanilla marines minus everything good about vanilla marines.

 Jancoran wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

morgoth wrote:
Dark Eldar are absolutely not competitive.

That is false.

Dude, in every single thread about how an army is not really competitive, you argue that it's actually pretty good.

All the while, nobody apparently manages to do any consistent winning with that army.

So yeah.. I mean your spirit is awesome, but how about you try and base this off actual statistics or really anything but your point of view?

Would actual wins be okay? Lol.

My spirit IS awesome, you're right. I also play the game for the right reason still: to have fun. and I have found a nice balance between having fun and not pissing off every opponent with my list and still winning. and if people were more imaginative, they wouldn't buy into all the internet negativity about...basically everything.

Here's a true fact: at any one time there is only one best army. Every single other army be definition, therefore isn't. So you can whine about that if you want or you can overcome it. That's what i choose to do.

It is patently false that the Dark Eldar are terrible. You can say they are. it just isn't true.

Janc, this is the most recent data I could find. Yeah, DE aren't bottom tier, but they're pretty low. It's not just that people aren't playing DE the right way, there are absolutely TERRIBLE DE units.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/713481.page

The above data is far less anecdotal than Janc's personal wins for example. Metadata implies that DE are not terribly strong. It's going to take specifics to refute the metadata.