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Okay, well I?ve been given 3 O?Shovah models, so I might as well try to make use of them. Is this how you play Farsight?

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170 ? Commander O?Shovah

112 ? Fireknife bodyguard with 2 shield drones, targeting array

112 ? Fireknife bodyguard with 2 shield drones, targeting array

112 ? Fireknife bodyguard with 2 shield drones, targeting array

112 ? Fireknife bodyguard with 2 shield drones, targeting array

102 ? Bodyguard with failsafe device, targeting array

102 - Bodyguard with targeting array, 2 gun drones

102 - Bodyguard with targeting array, 2 gun drones

 

924 points! I could eek out the points for a 2^nd HQ of a Shas?el, but the point of this squad is that is a huge scoring unit, that with 8 4+ invulnerables, is pretty difficult to kill and kicks out a good lot of damage ? 8-16 S6 AP2 + 14 S7 AP4 all at BS4shots. The failsafe device is there just in case they get caught in close combat by dedicated assault troops, IC HQs on bikes or Demon Princes, while O?Shovah means the unit is quite happy to pile into isolated squads and the suchlike.  

 

60 ? 6 Firewarriors

60 ? 6 Firewarriors

 

65 ? Piranha

 

For getting those objectives etc.

 

195 ? 2 Broadsides, Advanced Stabilisation System, 2 Shield Drones

 

180 ? Railhead (sms, tracker, decoy, target lock)  

 

Does it work for you?

Do you and Spooky live on the same wave length ? Or is there another reason why you produce the same list at the same time ?

Anyway, as I said to Spooky, it will probably work, but I don't like it. Too many eggs in one huge basket.

I know it's stupid, but Farsight doesn't count as your mandatory HQ crisis.  So, you'll have to eek out those points for that second HQ to make a legal list.

I think this army list is a great thing to model, as you can spend time and detail into each bodyguard to make them unique.  Gamewise- it doesn't seem like you have enough firepower against vehicles, especially if those railguns get taken out early.  I would suggest upgrading the pirahna to have a fusion blaster just for another anti-vehicle option. 

Am I correct in understanding that if the enemy kills all those drones then they get 450+ victory points even if every single suit survives?

- Oaka

I would think Many smaller squads of crisis suits would be better than 1 large bodyguard for farsight.

Well, great minds think alike. Where is Spooky's list? I bet mine's better

O'Shovah doesn't count as the mandatory commander in the same way Terminators get a 3+ save. Honestly, if you are debating this point then you need to get out more. The bottom line for me is, 'how will this get ref'd at the GT', and this is how it will be played.

Returning to the list. The Piranaha has a fusion gun, i forgot to type it out (does anyone take burst cannons?).

To claim victory points from the unit 14 wounds have to be inflicted on the squad. That said, I'd might kill non-scoring O'Shovah before I took off 2 crisis wounds, depending on circumstances.

How is 3 Railguns, and 7 BS4 missile pods not enough anti-tank?

I didn't consider missile pods anti-tank for AV 13-14.  I haven't seen missile pods en masse actually take out anything greater than AV 10 so I don't know whether that is effective or not.  All I noticed was 3 railguns in 5 models would be the first targets of a vehicle-heavy army and could most likely be taken out on the first turn, then you have nothing left, but with a fusion blaster pirahna it may be enough.  I also count 20 models in the HQ unit, meaning that 11 dead drones equals under 50%.  Where is this 14-wound thing that you bring up?

I also disagree about the comparison between O'Shovah and 3+ save terminators.  You are only assuming that O'Shovah counts as the mandatory HQ choice because of the fluff behind the army list, but the rules specifically say otherwise.  I would compare it, rather, to the problem with the Saim-Hann list, in that everyone would assume they could have more than 1 skimmer tank, being the skimmer craftworld, but the rules state otherwise.

- Oaka

Even dropping 1 of the bodyguards for a 97 point shas'el would completely end the required crisis commander problem.

In fact, that shas'el would be more effective any way due to having bs5.

MPs are more effective against AV10/11/12 than Railguns are... So yeah, you've got enough anti'tank.

You can find Spooky's list on ATT.

3 Railguns is what most Tau lists have - they simply have them on 3 Hammerheads.

Oh yeah, it is models in the moral section, not wounds. Hmm, a lot of poeple seem to play it the other way around. Still, its still not easy to reduce below half-strength, there's 7 suits, 8 SDs and 4 GDs, so 19 models.

I'm not going to debate the O'Shovah point further. As I said, I am perfectly confident I could take this list the GT, which is where my interest in rules arguments ends.

Check the relevent question in the YMDC, there is some debate over whether it is models or wounds.

Regardless, the 97point Shas'El is an excellent buy on his own.

Ezz

I'm not sure the list is legal and not because of the commander requirement. IIRC, the Farsight list requires 1 crisis suit team as well as 1 firewarrior squad. The bodyguards wouldn't count toward that requirement.

Where are the pathfinders for bs5 and negating enemy cover saves?

If ever there was a time to use one!

Posted By winterman on 06/01/2006 4:21 PM
I'm not sure the list is legal and not because of the commander requirement. IIRC, the Farsight list requires 1 crisis suit team as well as 1 firewarrior squad. The bodyguards wouldn't count toward that requirement.

Yup, you areb right - tis illegal as Crisis are 1+. Well, I can find some points for a monat somewhere.

Admittedly I have not played against the new Tau codex.  I see this list having problems with

-drop pods. Espcially troop heavy with lots of special weapons.

-fast hordes or opponents with high maneuverability.

 

Drop the targeting arrays, you Command Team is crying out for markerlight assist. might as well make the most of it and aim on thr backs of a Pathfinder team.

Commander Farsight
6 FK4 - 12 shield drones, 3 lock, detonator

DR4

6 FW
6 FW

Piranha - fusion, array

2 BASS - 2 shield drones, lock
RH - sms, decoys, multi, lock, pod

1500

Close to yours, but I don't understand why you'd want gun drones.

Someone asked something along the lines of whether the unit is still scoring if it loses all its drones. Yes. There are 28 wounds in this unit, you need to lose all drones, a suit, and a wound on another suit to make it non-scoring.

Spooky's list looks like this for reference:

farsight - 170

bodyguard, plasma, AFP, 2 shield drones, targetlock (110)
bodyguard, twin-fusion, 2 shield drones, targetlock, stim injectors (88)
bodyguard, twin-fusion, 2 shield drones, targetlock, failsafe detonator (88?)
bodyguard, plasma, CIB, 2 shield drones, target array, targetlock (115)
bodyguard, fireknife, 2 shield drones, target array (112)
bodyguard, fireknife, 2 shield drones, target array (112)
bodyguard, fireknife, 2 shield drones, target array (112)

(bodyguard total: 737
farsight unit total: 907)

shas'O Ninja- VRT, shield, fusion - 117

1 elite deathrain, BS4 - 53
1 elite deathrain, BS4 - 53

6 firewarriors, markerlight'ui - 80
6 firewarriors, markerlight'ui - 80

2 broadsides, ASS, 2 shield drones - 195

It's 15 points short and I think he has some points costs wrong on some of the SI bodyguards, but you get the idea.

I worked it out once, with all 7 bodyguards with 2 x shield drones, it takes 3 falcons over 3 turns of firing to kill your drones. Just your drones.

Man, I love this list. But I think it'd be way better at 1850 or 2000, and I'd do like Spook and get more crisis suits.

its comedy. cheers Professor for bringing the list across.

- you NEED targetlocks in the farsight unit. there's no point firing 8 suits at the same target, because anything that survives 4-5 suit's fire you can charge and butcher anyway
so targetlocks let you slag a few additional targets a turn.

-mixing weapons in a unit is a bad idea. but not with farsight! with the targetlocks, they can all shoot at their preferred target type, range permitting, and by being in the unit they all gain the protection of the pooled 14 shield drones

-its good to have the special issue wargear, it actually fits with farsight. especially that sucide bomb thing. its the sort of thing you'd want on one of the cheap suits (hence its on a twin fusion)

-needs some anti tank, hence the twin fusion

-if you take a variety of weapons, some games some of them will be not so useful. but, if you lose shield drones and start having to pull crisis, you can choose which ones die depending on which are less useful for you in that particular game. if you had them all in seperate squads, then its up to the opponenet which ones he wants to try and kill based on which ones are more dangerous to him. the pooled shield drone mega unit reverses this, which is nice


-the ninja'O suit is mainly taken for jokes. but farsight can be played extremely aggressively, and if you're getting that close then you may find you're at risk of getting charged.

what i was thinking with that suit was to hide it among the farsight unit (not joined, but surrounded by their shield drones)
this means he can't be targetted, and he's got a good delivery mechanism to get him close.

then, the ninja can go and charge something, to tie it up for a turn, to prevent it swamping farsight. if you wanted, the guy could then use hit & run to jump out of combat after 2 phases, and let farsight shoot at the unit he was in combat with, then he could even re-charge the same target, lol. or he could go and meltagun the rear of a tank.

there's lots of options with a ninja suit, and they need just 2 things: closer targets to get them into range, and to avoid powerfists. with a shield gen and 4 wounds they're surprisingly durable (but you still gotta avoid pfists) and farsight is an ideal 'closer target' delivery mechanism for the ninja. it is hilarious having a bs5 fusion blaster in the back of the opponent's lines by turn 2. he's str5 dont forget so he can still charge the back of a tank if he doesnt melt it.

the rest of the list is standard stuff.

Well, great minds think alike. Where is Spooky's list? I bet mine's better

hah! mine's clearly better, for being (1) legal, and (2) better :p

are your farsights assembled? could i 'acquire' a sword and shield from u?

They came made-up. Sorry mate. I could maybe cut one off (and they don't have their shield gens either)

I guessed you'd have seen the failsafe device would work in farsight I'm not so sure about the fusion blasters. Missile Pods are just as good against AV13 unless you are in 6", and I'm not sure I want to get less than 6" from anything with a 900 point shooting unit. Plus, I've taken a Railhead for the extra s10 shot, which would also mitigate the fusion utility. I see the list operating as VP denial - one huge unkillable unit that slags a scoring unit per turn. The CIB might be worth it though, for when you meet Tyranids and need to punch through 30 gaunts in one turn.

Have you tried out the ninja O'. It sounds like quite a laugh, but not a good points return.

Also, why no Piranha? How will you contest well split objectives in Counter missions?

Pathfinders - not a chance. Everything else in the army is JSJ, so the Pathfinders will be sitting in the open taking every heavy weapon hit there is for a turn before they do anything. I'd always buy targetting arrays over pathfinders.

For solo suits, the Deathrain is easily the best rear armour deep-striker in my book, so I'll add one of those.

well, fusion aint so good anyway. but in the farsight unit its ok cos the unit is aggressive and needs to be able to kill stuff good when its close. i might swap one of them for a deathrain but i figured deathrains were better as elites. not crucial though.

failsafe, yea. not used it yet, but i am looking forward to it. its nice that the unit can avoid being run down, its one of the things that threatens mega-units and its good that farsight can uniquely avoid that particular threat.

the ninja'O i've used 3-4 times now, he rarely makes his pts back but is useful like a tool. there's nothing that he will meltagun that a piranha couldn't do for half the cost, but its funny none the less.

i think the best i've had from him is in a game against LATD, he charged a unit of zombies in turn 2 (contacting the edge of the unit so the dangerous aspiring champ was out of the killzone) he then bounced away 11" into the enemy's back corner, he got charged by the defiler he was after, (doh i forgot they're str8) passed his invul save and brought it out in front of my broadsides, hit and run again jumping behind the defiler, and meltagunned it in its 205pt ass. good result.

i think i'll move the stimm injector from the farsight unit to the ninja as well actually... i was originally thinking that he doesn't lose his wounds one by one, he gets killed by str8 and failing the invul save. but, with it, maybe he can be used to soak fire, he gets the 2 saves even against plasma...

piranha, i think i will try and fit in. means dropping an elite deathrain probably. not using it currently, mainly so the army can fit all in a GW carry case, but if i cut the foam a bit more it will go in. gives me even more drones too, lol.

farsight - 170
bodyguard, AFP, flamer, 2 shield drones, targetlock (94)
bodyguard, twin fusion, 2 shield drones, targetlock, failsafe detonator (103)
bodyguard, fireknife, 2 shield drones, target array, targetlock (117)
bodyguard, fireknife, 2 shield drones, target array, targetlock (117)
bodyguard, fireknife, 2 shield drones, target array, targetlock (117)
bodyguard, fireknife, 2 shield drones, target array (112)
bodyguard, fireknife, 2 shield drones, target array (112)

(bodyguard total: 772
farsight unit total: 942)

shas'O Ninja: VRT, shield, fusion, stim injectors - 127

1 elite deathrain, BSF - 46

6 firewarriors - 60
6 firewarriors - 60

BS4 fusion piranha - 70

2 broadsides, ASS, 2 shield drones - 195

1500.

apart from the HQ, the rest of the army is stripped right down to the bones. not particularly happy with the flamer, as the guy doesn't have a multitracker. no pts for it currently though.

i could turn him into a 117pt TA TL fireknife like the others (23 pts) and upgrade the deathrain to BS4 (7pts) by dropping the ninja'O (127) down to a fireknife-5'el (97) which would probably be better. but i'm keen on the ninja.

I'm seriously considering this for the GT heat this year...

I'm going to try this down CLWC if i can get anyone to play it...

170 Commander Farsight

102 ? Fireknife (plasma, missile, targeting array, hard-wired multitracker, failsafe detonator)
120 ? Fireknife (plasma, missile, targeting array, hard-wired target lock, hard-wired multitracker, 2 shield drones, black sun filter)
120 ? Fireknife (plasma, missile, targeting array, hard-wired target lock, hard-wired multitracker, 2 shield drones, black sun filter)
120 ? Fireknife (plasma, missile, targeting array, hard-wired target lock, hard-wired multitracker, 2 shield drones, black sun filter)
112 ? Fireknife (plasma, missile, targeting array, hard-wired multitracker, 2 shield drones)
112 ? Fireknife (plasma, missile, targeting array, hard-wired multitracker, 2 shield drones)
112 ? Fireknife (plasma, missile, targeting array, hard-wired multitracker, 2 shield drones)

53 - Crisis suit with Twin-linked Missile Pod, Targeting array,

60 ? 10 Firewarriors
60 ? 10 Firewarriors

165 ? Hammerhead, Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multitracker, Decoy Launcher
195 ? Broadsides, ASS, team leader, 2 shield generators

See if i can get away without the piranha.

Why not take 2 shas'els with bodygaurds and full drones? Other then farsights close combat ability, I don't see what his uber body gaurd unit can do that two shas'els and body guard can do better and cheaper. Not to mention having no limitations on hammerheads and stealths.

like say

127 - Shas'el: PG/MP, Target Array, HW-Multitraker, HW drone controller, 2 shield drones
112 - BG: PG/MP, Target Array, HW-Multitraker, HW drone controller, 2 shield drones
112 - BG: PG/MP, Target Array, HW-Multitraker, HW drone controller, 2 shield drones

127 - Shas'el: PG/MP, Target Array, HW-Multitraker, HW drone controller, 2 shield drones
112 - BG: PG/MP, Target Array, HW-Multitraker, HW drone controller, 2 shield drones
112 - BG: PG/MP, Target Array, HW-Multitraker, HW drone controller, 2 shield drones

200 - 4 stealth, 8 gun drones

60 - 6 FW
60 - 6 FW

70 Piranha: Fusion, Target Array
70 Piranha: Fusion, Target Array

170 - Hammerhead, Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multitracker, Decoy Launcher, BSF
165 - Hammerhead, Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multitracker, Decoy Launcher

1497

winterman, the thing that makes it work is the 14 pooled shield drones.

because you load it all into 1 uber doom unit,
-you've got targetlocks so you can still shoot seperate things,
-you have a huge foot print so you can stretch out and claim multiple objectives,
-and be in range of multiple squads,
-and charge multiple things,
-have a cheap suit with fusion, wielding the suicide bomb so you dont get swept in combat
-and he's also a great tank-shock deterrant, which is 2 of the things that threaten mega-units.
-its so strong that you can play it extremely aggressively, charging all kinds of squads and winning.
-the first time i played it, i got charged by a calidus assassin and a death company and beat both of them without going below half strength.


your list is similarly HQ-heavy, except its not actually making much use of the lack of FOC restrictions. eg. you're allowed 3 HH now, but can only afford 2.



torgoch, lol. i am considering it for GT also. had a conversation like this:
"woo farsight is amazing his council just doesnt die and he's NAILS in combat, he's harder than a chaplain"
"heh why dont you take it to GT then"
"err yea but i dont wanna be 'that guy' you know"
"go on, be 'that guy'"


i dont think you NEED the piranha really. basically in my list its a trade for an elite deathrain, which can fire all game long rather than the piranha which hides then dies, like a one shot weapon.
and i still think that the army might need the compulsory commander, regardless the ninja'O is sufficiently hilarious for me to include it anyway, and i'll be damned if i'm taking less than 1000 pts of HQ. (gonna call the shas'O Brightsword.)

btw farsight has a targetlock! i never noticed that. if you have 6 of the bodyguard with TL's, then you can fire everyone at seperate things, which means you dont need to keep track of who has TL and who doesnt and makes it a lot easier.

a few other things
-you dont have to have LOS to fire the AFP, and it causes pinning, and denies cover saves
-the broadsides are bonded
-every suit has acute senses
-farsight gets 2D6+5 against vehicles (!)
-preferred enemy orks

Now just hope you come up against orks...

i think the unit can never be useful unless you're aggressive with it actually, the basis of it (like all good tau armies) is the battle suits, fireknifes can rapid fire and they can charge, which makes them far more effective. they're all str5 in combat!

usually though getting close is a very bad idea, so you have to operate outside of 12" so dont rapid fire very often, and also very rarely charge.

but the point of farsight doom unit is that with the pooled shield drones, its so durable that you break this requirement for cautious play, and you can bosh forwards and rapid fire stuff and charge it with impunity.

an 8 man squad with 2 plasmas and a pfist is normally quite dangerous, but no with farsight, you leap up, fire most of your suits at them (maybe targetlock the fusion out to a nearby tank) cover loads of them with the templates, plasma them to bits.

you actually want the pfist to survive, so that you can then charge the unit. farsight will butcher him, or if he can't make b2b contact the other suits will get him anyway.

its sweet because by charging, you get an extra D6" after the consolidate, allowing you to re-shuffle your unit around to keep the suits in the right places and the shield drones protecting you properly, but mainly the D6" is good because it lets you get closer and apply more pressure. 

you can punk entire squads a turn like this, with firepower to spare that you can targetlock out, you can targetlock out as much as you can so that your main target unit only just dies in combat.

if you have a decent nearby secondary target(s) to shoot, then you wanna estimate how many of the main target you will kill in combat. then, you estimate how many of your suits are needed to fire at them to kill that many. so, any spare firepower, can go at secondary targets.

thats how i've found it working so far, its brilliant. playing like this is quite tough, there's a lot to think about but the unit becomes very powerful.

Spooky, you do know that you have to declare the target of each of the suits with target locks before shooting ? You cannot first shoot with all the suits who don't have TLs and then say, oh, and now the other will shoot them too. You have to declare the targets of all the suits before shooting.