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an off-duty Los Angeles police officer confronted the group. Other teenagers pulled out their cameras, filming the officer as he held a 13-year-old boy by the collar of his sweatshirt, trying to detain him.

The situation quickly escalated from there. At one point, another teen rushed the officer, sending him tumbling over a line of bushes. The officer then reached into his jeans and drew a gun, firing a single shot.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-anaheim-video-20170223-story.html

I'm assuming there's zero chance the cop gets charged. He's LAPD living in (Republican) Orange County!

Paid vacation for him.

The real punishment? No sweet, sweet OT while he's on vacation!

Well, the media's taking a rather one sided stance regarding this. "Cops are bad. Rarr!"

If I'd done that with a firearm, I'd be facing multiple charges and certainly would have been arrested. I don't see why the cop should not face those same consequences.

But its LA area police...so pretty par for the course.

The kid was out of line as well, but police should absolutely be held to the same standards as anyone else, if not moreso.

Random vblogger is the media now? At least Alex Jones has a fething desk.

 feeder wrote:
Random vblogger is the media now? At least Alex Jones has a fething desk.

That particular Youtuber tends to provide much more balanced (and well sourced) news than any of the major sites... He calls them out on over dramatising situations all the time.

 Wyrmalla wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Random vblogger is the media now? At least Alex Jones has a fething desk.

That particular Youtuber tends to provide much more balanced (and well sourced) news than any of the major sites... He calls them out on over dramatising situations all the time.

Well, he's not going to reach the top of the youtube celeb speaking circuit providing fair and reasonable coverage of current events.

 Vaktathi wrote:
If I'd done that with a firearm, I'd be facing multiple charges and certainly would have been arrested. I don't see why the cop should not face those same consequences.

But its LA area police...so pretty par for the course.

The kid was out of line as well, but police should absolutely be held to the same standards as anyone else, if not moreso.

If you aren't a cop, you aren't living in a Republican county, then yes, you'd be facing multiple charges. Especially if you were black or brown. If you were black, and the kid were white, you'd probably have resisted arrest during transfer to county, and been restrained with necessary force. All necessary and appropriate consequences.

OTOH, if you are LAPD, and following proper escalation of force protocol (which he absolutely was), then the only issue is the accidental discharge, which he will almost certainly not be charged for, as there was no intent.

The one kid who jumped the hedge to blindside him, after the other guys bum-rushed the cop, and then started reaching for a concealed weapon in his back pocket? The cop could have shot that kid dead and would have been fully justified in doing so. Having been physically assaulted, outnumbered, and escalated to surrounding and reaching? That's an automatic "self defense" freebie right there.

ND is bad regardless of what happened offscreen.

 feeder wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:

 feeder wrote:
Random vblogger is the media now? At least Alex Jones has a fething desk.

That particular Youtuber tends to provide much more balanced (and well sourced) news than any of the major sites... He calls them out on over dramatising situations all the time.

Well, he's not going to reach the top of the youtube celeb speaking circuit providing fair and reasonable coverage of current events.

He did win the Streamy Awards last year for the Best News & Culture Series and Best Show of the year...

But well, this isn't about a Youtuber. Point is, the mainstream media's posing this one way or the other. Summary: the acted as he thought was according in the situation, but everyone's in the wrong here, and we can't jump to conclusions just yet.

Wait, I mean "Cops are bad! Rarr!".

I seem to be friend of a friend with some of the teens. Their story is that the guy first started cussing out one of the girls, who may have been the only one on his lawn at first (not sure), and then one of the boys began to yell at him for "treating a woman that way" and it escalated from there. There may have been a misunderstanding where the boy said "I'll sue you" and the cop heard "I'll shoot you."

I'm surprised the officer hasn't been charged just for detaining the boy. In my training for the classroom, they stressed again and again that I could not ever grab of detain a student like that, even if they were assaulting someone. If he hadn't been an ex cop, he would have been hauled away in cuffs.

Problem is, right now with how the media is, cops have to be really careful about everything they do. What this guy did may have been by the books the right thing (not saying it is), but if the guy can be turned into the aggressor here that's how a lot of people will try and spin it. There's no grey zone apparently, and well, a story about an officer doing good doesn't sell...

So no, not to victim blame, or pick a side here, but trusting any mainstream media source which jumps to conclusions about things and only state contrary opinions in the small print (or an unlinked follow up article days later, if that) isn't really the way to go.

There is a lot of context that comes up on facebook, too. Apparently there have been some death threats both ways and a self-proclaimed Klansman defending the officer. Keep in mind that OC has had a fairly big law enforcement scandal recently.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I seem to be friend of a friend with some of the teens. Their story is that the guy first started cussing out one of the girls, who may have been the only one on his lawn at first (not sure), and then one of the boys began to yell at him for "treating a woman that way" and it escalated from there. There may have been a misunderstanding where the boy said "I'll sue you" and the cop heard "I'll shoot you."

I'm surprised the officer hasn't been charged just for detaining the boy. In my training for the classroom, they stressed again and again that I could not ever grab of detain a student like that, even if they were assaulting someone. If he hadn't been an ex cop, he would have been hauled away in cuffs.

Active cop just off duty.

Seems like to me that kids where the ones who where doing some really stupid stuff in addition to an Officer.
IDK about any other place, but around here, an officer has the right to arrest you even if he is off duty. If this was an On Duty offcer, Bum Rushing him like that one kid did that a dumbass idea as was surrounding him. As was taking a swing.
The Discharge, no mattter how it happened, doesnt seems like he was shooting at someone, is in excusable.

My error. Sorry.

I find it interesting to compare this incident to the one described in the "Florida Man Stands His Ground" thread.

Steelmage99 wrote:
I find it interesting to compare this incident to the one described in the "Florida Man Stands His Ground" thread.

They are not really comparable except that in each case a gun was fired.

The situations are very different. The laws covering each are very different. The outcome of the gunshots in each incident are very different.

Judge Russell Healey:

“To lose a child is a parent’s worst nightmare,” he said. “Mr. Dunn, your life is effectively over. … This case seems to exemplify that our society seems to have lost its way, its moral compass. Our thoughts and discussions ought to be about how we should treat one another. It’s not whether we can do something or act in a certain way or whether we have a right to do something, but whether it’s right and necessary and prudent.”

*This post also appears in the two other shooting related threads.*

Steelmage99 wrote:
Judge Russell Healey:

“To lose a child is a parent’s worst nightmare,” he said. “Mr. Dunn, your life is effectively over. … This case seems to exemplify that our society seems to have lost its way, its moral compass. Our thoughts and discussions ought to be about how we should treat one another. It’s not whether we can do something or act in a certain way or whether we have a right to do something, but whether it’s right and necessary and prudent.”

*This post also appears in the two other shooting related threads.*

And how is that in any way relevant to this topic? No kid was killed. And frankly, the judge is an idiot. His job is not to decide 'prudent', his job is to decide 'was the act legal under current laws'. Unless 'prudent' is an element under the law in question, it should not come into play for a criminal decision. Maybe it has merit in a civil case.

e: eh I'll keep it to the relevant thread.

So the cop was mad about kids on his lawn and confronts the kid. Kid spouts off, cop hears threat and grabs him, then drags him further onto the property, at no time identifying himself, producing badge, etc. Kids respond by circling and on charges the cop who proceeds to pull the 1st kid over the hedge and draw a weapon. He continues to pull the kids and (inadvertently?) discharges his weapon.

Whoo boy. If this guy wasn't a cop, he would be in some deep crap.

As it is, I can't imagine that he followed any agency protocols on detainment or use of force. The key thing about LEO authority is that it is not assaulting an officer/resisting/etc. if you have no reason to know it's an officer. And to escalate a petty trespass to a potentially lethal situation? Ridiculous. Just turn the hose on 'em.

What if another homeowner saw him dragging a kid and pulled a gun? Or saw the gun and opened fire? There are so many ways this could have gone down very badly due to the officer's actions.

Why do you think he did not identify himself? I didn't read anything about it either way, and none of the videos shown cover the whole incident either way.

I agree with the commissioner;

“I am very interested in knowing the facts of the incident based on the investigation by the department and the Office of Inspector General that is underway,” said commissioner Cynthia McClain-Hill. “Some of the actions — brief as that exchange caught on video may be — do not properly represent what I believe should be expected and reflected by a member of the Los Angeles Police Department when engaging members of the public, be it on-duty or off-duty.”

Regardless of justification this seems like an incident that spiraled into escalation and the adult in the situation doesn't seem to have acted very mature in how he handled it. If no shot had been fired this probably would have been a nothing story. Just a bunch of idiots being idiots.

 jmurph wrote:
So the cop was mad about kids on his lawn and confronts the kid. Kid spouts off, cop hears threat and grabs him, then drags him further onto the property, at no time identifying himself, producing badge, etc. Kids respond by circling and on charges the cop who proceeds to pull the 1st kid over the hedge and draw a weapon. He continues to pull the kids and (inadvertently?) discharges his weapon.

Whoo boy. If this guy wasn't a cop, he would be in some deep crap.

As it is, I can't imagine that he followed any agency protocols on detainment or use of force. The key thing about LEO authority is that it is not assaulting an officer/resisting/etc. if you have no reason to know it's an officer. And to escalate a petty trespass to a potentially lethal situation? Ridiculous. Just turn the hose on 'em.

What if another homeowner saw him dragging a kid and pulled a gun? Or saw the gun and opened fire? There are so many ways this could have gone down very badly due to the officer's actions.

Agreed on all points.

 jmurph wrote:
So the cop was mad about kids on his lawn and confronts the kid. Kid spouts off, cop hears threat and grabs him, then drags him further onto the property, at no time identifying himself, producing badge, etc. Kids respond by circling and on charges the cop who proceeds to pull the 1st kid over the hedge and draw a weapon. He continues to pull the kids and (inadvertently?) discharges his weapon.

Whoo boy. If this guy wasn't a cop, he would be in some deep crap.

As it is, I can't imagine that he followed any agency protocols on detainment or use of force. The key thing about LEO authority is that it is not assaulting an officer/resisting/etc. if you have no reason to know it's an officer. And to escalate a petty trespass to a potentially lethal situation? Ridiculous. Just turn the hose on 'em.

What if another homeowner saw him dragging a kid and pulled a gun? Or saw the gun and opened fire? There are so many ways this could have gone down very badly due to the officer's actions.

The guy did identify himself as a member of the police force, the kid responded by saying "my dad's a copy", to which the guy said the two of them will need to have a talk then...

Regardless of the situation, this is a fully grown man who let a group of kids troll him into losing his temper. He has no business being a cop or even owning a gun really.

No disagreement in this instance.

 feeder wrote:
Regardless of the situation, this is a fully grown man who let a group of kids troll him into losing his temper. He has no business being a cop or even owning a gun really.

He actually seemed calm until the one kid rushed/hit him and the other kid flanked him.