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What do you guys think? I run Death guard, so they get I:3. Do you get PF or PA on your CSM champs or biker champs?

It is literally almost never worth it.

If you care that much, only Bikers and Raptors will ever do anything with it.

Can you get into combat? If yes, sometimes, if no, then obviously not. If you're just going to use your champ as a way to avoid having your lord/sorceror face off against somebody elses beatstick, then no, but if you're operating as a bully unit, then it can be handy to ensure you win combat. If your bike unit is 3 guys and 2 of them have melta guns, the sarge is the bullet catcher so there isn't much point tooling him up for CC and if you're looking to ram them down someone's throat and be in CC turn 2 at the latest, then there's no point giving them a pair of specials when they're really just ablative wounds for the champ.

As with most questions, the answer is "It depends".

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It is literally almost never worth it.

If you care that much, only Bikers and Raptors will ever do anything with it.

With the chaos warband, the champs benefit more from the boon table, so maybe we'll see more PW on the champs in tournaments in the future?

 killerpenguin wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It is literally almost never worth it.

If you care that much, only Bikers and Raptors will ever do anything with it.

With the chaos warband, the champs benefit more from the boon table, so maybe we'll see more PW on the champs in tournaments in the future?

I really doubt it. I never put anything on my champs unless I know they have enough bodies between them and the inevitable death. 10 CSM, sure. 5 Bikes, sure. MSU, never ever nope never. With how little 40k seems to care about your armor 3+ or your cover save it's even less likely you'll spend the points.

It'd be OK for WE if since they have a reasonable chance at getting into CC, and as DG, the OP has a not unreasonable chance too since +1T, fearless and FNP are a mean combo but on the rare occasion that I have 15 points spare for my IW, I give me 10 man melta squad sarge a power axe and maybe 1 time in 5 it works out well while 3/5 times he gets shot to death before making CC and the other 1/5 of the time he dies before he gets to swing or achieve bounces off an invulnerable because he is forced to challenge smashbane.

I put claw/combi/meltabomb on all my raptor champs. That maximizes special weapons in the squad for turn 2 blitzes, can handle challenges or vehicles, and really only suffers against big nasty Death Stars or monstrous creatures. Which can't handle lots of minimum size squads, so it pans out.

 Badablack wrote:
I put claw/combi/meltabomb on all my raptor champs. That maximizes special weapons in the squad for turn 2 blitzes, can handle challenges or vehicles, and really only suffers against big nasty Death Stars or monstrous creatures. Which can't handle lots of minimum size squads, so it pans out.

the coward armies like tau will just shoot you down before you get into cc.

If you are running DG then can get away with a power axe as you'll likely live to swing. That said, are you asking about a normal marine squad or a biker or raptors squad that is likely to see CC? No need too waste points on shootout squads for CC upgrades.

Ppower weapons are rarely useful on one wound models, unless they have added protection from an invul or FNP. Ork Nobz always take a klaw. On Marines (loyal or chaos), the most I would give is a combi weapon.they get that one shot, and then they become bullet catchers, challenge eaters.

I ran power axes in my death guard army and I liked it pretty well. I beat a couple competitive armies like dark angels with them and I wouldn't have pulled it off without the axes. He had a really hard time wiping the units before I got to swing and then the champ was frequently soloing his whole squad of black knights or what have you. The fact that we get rerolls to hit against imperial armies makes them very reliable in those matchups.

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
I put claw/combi/meltabomb on all my raptor champs. That maximizes special weapons in the squad for turn 2 blitzes, can handle challenges or vehicles, and really only suffers against big nasty Death Stars or monstrous creatures. Which can't handle lots of minimum size squads, so it pans out.

the coward armies like tau will just shoot you down before you get into cc.

I do the same configuration, and there's plenty of options for avoiding that incoming fire, like pinning weapons, and cannon-fodder Spawn (go-go Stealth-Spawn!), and tactical options like all charging at once.

Something to remember is that if you're charging multiple units you get hit with a disordered charge penalty. Now Raptors aren't Vanguard Veterans, so they don't have something like Heroic Intervention to disregard the disordered charge penalty, but you should be multi-charging Tau where you can because they probably have something to remove your charge bonus, and everything within 6"-12" is going to overwatch you anyways. And if you're doing it on the drop with a Raptor Talon you have plenty of units to throw at the enemy.

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I ran power axes in my death guard army and I liked it pretty well. I beat a couple competitive armies like dark angels with them and I wouldn't have pulled it off without the axes. He had a really hard time wiping the units before I got to swing and then the champ was frequently soloing his whole squad of black knights or what have you. The fact that we get rerolls to hit against imperial armies makes them very reliable in those matchups.

Good point, The chosen with PA is a nice model as well.

It can be worth putting a power weapon in a bigger squad of marines, but that calls in to question the worth of large units.

Personally, I prefer to have 4 squads of 5 models over one squad of 20.Better to lose one squad of 5 models and have 3 5 man squads remaining to a brutal volley of shots than to lose 15 models and have one 5 man squad remain.