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Frankly, Custodians are better than paladins and cheaper, and when in a unit with draigo there is no reason not to bring them over paladins. I'm considering running my Paladins as counts as Custodians because of this, but I want to know if people would judge me for this.





EDIT: So, in hindsight after some replies I've decided to make some sort of conversion for my counts as custodians. This is my test model. He's painted up in a warplock bronze color like some of the team leaders in my army, and I'm planning on trying this out for the rest of my custodians conversions. I chose to start out on my metal guy so I could easily strip him down if this doesn't look like and acceptable conversion.

No problem here. As long as they look suitably different from other normal Grey Knight units.

I faced a Grey Knight army that had almost no Grey Knight element in it, it was all conversions from Stormcasts. As long as you tell your opponent which is which you shouldn't have any problems. I personally love well-made conversions.

Are you going to do some conversions or are you literally just going to run Paladins and say they are Custodes?

If you're running paladins and calling them custodes I'd potentially have an issue if it was more than once or twice, assuming you also had GK terminators in your army. Regardless, keeping track of their weapons would be a bear at best, since they'd look the same as any other GK weapon on the board but have different stat lines.

If they were painted gold and had conversions to make the weapons obvious ("the gold guy with the halberd actually has x" is not obvious) then it'd be okay.

 Jaxler wrote:
Frankly, Custodians are better than paladins and cheaper, and when in a unit with draigo there is no reason not to bring them over paladins. I'm considering running my Paladins as counts as Custodians because of this, but I want to know if people would judge me for this.

If you want to try them out before you buy them sure.
If you want to give your draigo star that "much needed" extra oomph, then nope I am not into that.
This isn't the case of can I use these cool models because they are great but simply you asking for superior rules at the cost of the looks of the game.
These guys are about the cheapest things you can buy, at least spend that 20 euro to make your army look good if you want to use them to kurbstomp my orks or inqs a bit harder.

No problems at all. After all you are going by Rule of Cool. You are playing with the minis you want. Anyone who says other wise is just an elitist snob in my opinion. Your money. Your time. Nobody should tell you what you can or can not do. After all if they have an issue with them, that speaks of their character and would be a person you wouldn't want to play with anyways.

Just make them clearly what they are, and mark that unit so you know who got what if any other termies on table.

Id agree when you can if you wanna use them regularly get some off ebay or convert a few makes life easier keeping track of what is what.

Davor wrote:
No problems at all. After all you are going by Rule of Cool. You are playing with the minis you want. Anyone who says other wise is just an elitist snob in my opinion. Your money. Your time. Nobody should tell you what you can or can not do. After all if they have an issue with them, that speaks of their character and would be a person you wouldn't want to play with anyways.

People are elitist snobs if they want units to be differentiated enough so as to easily tell what they are and what they're carrying at a glance vs having to refer back to the sheets? Pretty low standard then, since evidently only elitist snobs wish to avoid confusion. No one else can tell anyone else what to do, but they can choose not to play with that person or view him as WAAC if the proxy is simply a proxy with no effort to convert or change the appearance away from the rest of the army. No idea whether he's going to do any conversion since he has yet to say, but get off your high horse, it is a poor platform for argument since it does not seek any understanding whatsoever before making sweeping statements.

+1 to troa. Think it's fine to play around a bit, but yeah, if you're just playing GK minis with a better rules set. I'm not going to argue you need to buy the other minis to optimize your list, but I think you should just use what you've got as what it is.

If it were trying the unit out, fine. Also fine if you're trying to make a custodes army but hate the minis and are making some effort to make GKs into your version. But if you're just using the wrong rules for mechanical advantage, yeah, I think I'd look down on that a bit. Wouldn't refuse to play, but unless you were otherwise a great sport, I'd probably get irritated after seeing it more than once or twice. 40k isn't a finely tuned competitive system, just play with what you've got and don't cheese it up.

Are the paladins easily differentiated as custodes? Frankly, just being painted a different color would be plenty - If I know to associate Gold Armor with Custodes Rules, then the fact that the Custodes have what appear to be force halberds isn't a deal-breaker (edit: so long as halberds are always representing the Spears, and force swords & shields are always representing the other option, with further easy differentiation if you're going 30k Custodes).

I'm generally more than happy to forge the narrative in a way that helps my opponent save a few bucks, so long as that doesn't substantially interfere with my ability to play the game. I don't even care if you call them "Grey Knight Gary Stewart Squads" and merely use the rules for Custodes, so long as you play the mechanics right and they're visually distinguishable from your other Grey Knights at a glance.

I mean, this hobby is insanely expensive. I get why GW would want to reinforce the use of "correct" models, but players reinforcing that just reeks of Stockholm Syndrome to me.

But that's probably because I follow the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.

I plan to create an ersatz Space Marine army (the flavor of which would potentially change from game to game) using kitbashed Kroot and Fire Warrior/Stealth Suit models. While I plan to do a good job, my ability to differentiate some things is likely going to be limited - I'm going to have to rely on my opponents understanding that "If a Kroot is in Terminator-type battlesuit armor, that Pulse Carbine array has +6" range and -1 S to represent a storm bolter."

Davor wrote:
No problems at all. After all you are going by Rule of Cool. You are playing with the minis you want. Anyone who says other wise is just an elitist snob in my opinion. Your money. Your time. Nobody should tell you what you can or can not do. After all if they have an issue with them, that speaks of their character and would be a person you wouldn't want to play with anyways.

You're saying that I can bring the cheapest possible models available (Grots, at roughly £1 per model) to represent any Infantry model, and if you can't identify that that Grot A is either a Devastator with a lascannon or a Vanguard Veteran with a thunderhammer and storm shield? I mean, you can't tell me that I need to differentiate between them, so as per your ruling, I can field an army of grot models and say that they represent any Infantry model in the game, and not need anything to determine their wargear or unit type?

Nice.

Do something noticeable to differentiate them. There are a few ways, but the obvious easy one is paint them gold, while your GK are silver. They'll stand out. And you shouldn't have an issue. But if they literally look exactly like all your GK models with no difference, expect some resistance.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
You're saying that I can bring the cheapest possible models available (Grots, at roughly £1 per model) to represent any Infantry model, and if you can't identify that that Grot A is either a Devastator with a lascannon or a Vanguard Veteran with a thunderhammer and storm shield? I mean, you can't tell me that I need to differentiate between them, so as per your ruling, I can field an army of grot models and say that they represent any Infantry model in the game, and not need anything to determine their wargear or unit type?

This brings up a fair point-- if you're doing it to get in cheaper, I'd actually take an army of paper standees that are the right size but clear over regularly using confusing models to represent things.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
You're saying that I can bring the cheapest possible models available (Grots, at roughly £1 per model) to represent any Infantry model, and if you can't identify that that Grot A is either a Devastator with a lascannon or a Vanguard Veteran with a thunderhammer and storm shield? I mean, you can't tell me that I need to differentiate between them, so as per your ruling, I can field an army of grot models and say that they represent any Infantry model in the game, and not need anything to determine their wargear or unit type?

This brings up a fair point-- if you're doing it to get in cheaper, I'd actually take an army of paper standees that are the right size but clear over regularly using confusing models to represent things.

I personally wouldn't mind that, so long as those paper standees are sufficiently 3D that they don't cause Line of Sight issues.

Enjoying the gaming aspect of 40k is a separate element from enjoying the hobbying aspect. I happen to enjoy both, but I wouldn't demand both from an opponent (so long as I can still enjoy the gaming aspect).

There's also shades of gray between getting the "right" model at high expense (here, the Custodes models) and pursuing the cheapest option (paper standees). One can still enjoy the hobby aspects without enjoying the price tag of 100% compliance with using only the "right" model.

Oh, I definitely agree. I probably use about 80% refurbished or kitbashed minis and love the hobby. I also think that using the wrong rule purely for mechanical advantage is lame, because I pretty strongly feel that the game doesn't warrant pushing that optimization.

If you like playing GKs, play GKs. If you like Custodes as a concept and mechanics and have GK minis and don't want to buy new minis, show some effort. If you like custodes and have no cash, I won't judge. If you're just interested in optimal rules and don't want to put in any effort to justify it, that's fine, but I'll reserve the right to judge you for it.

Okay, the main reason why I'd be doing this is because I like paladins but I feel like they're borderline unuseable in the current game when a model that costs 5 points less gets 2 extra attacks, extra strength init weapons skill and eternal warrior, etc. I figured since they were about the same hight and had similar weapons it'd be fine. Point is I do own real custodians, I just prefer grey knight models. If I did some sort of conversion work to make them stand out from normal grey Knights, would that be enough?

You can ask us all you want, but even those of us sharing your geographical tag are unlikely to be your opponents. At best, you're going to get a vague impression of what 40k forumites might respond with, which is probably not terribly indicative of your LGS community.

 Jaxler wrote:
Okay, the main reason why I'd be doing this is because I like paladins but I feel like they're borderline unuseable in the current game when a model that costs 5 points less gets 2 extra attacks, extra strength init weapons skill and eternal warrior, etc. I figured since they were about the same hight and had similar weapons it'd be fine. Point is I do own real custodians, I just prefer grey knight models. If I did some sort of conversion work to make them stand out from normal grey Knights, would that be enough?

If you want more specific answers, you'll need to describe how you are going to convert them. You're simply not giving enough info for a clear picture for people here. Additionally, you're the only one at the end of the day who knows your local community and how they may react.

 troa wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
Okay, the main reason why I'd be doing this is because I like paladins but I feel like they're borderline unuseable in the current game when a model that costs 5 points less gets 2 extra attacks, extra strength init weapons skill and eternal warrior, etc. I figured since they were about the same hight and had similar weapons it'd be fine. Point is I do own real custodians, I just prefer grey knight models. If I did some sort of conversion work to make them stand out from normal grey Knights, would that be enough?

If you want more specific answers, you'll need to describe how you are going to convert them. You're simply not giving enough info for a clear picture for people here. Additionally, you're the only one at the end of the day who knows your local community and how they may react.

I don't have any plans and I'm wondering how far I'd need to. Right now I'm thinking just give them plumes and custodian weapons.

Standard Dakka response time.

Do you plan on making them different from other GKs? Like, say, Gold Armour, plumes and a distinctly different scheme?

Or are you just going to point at a unit and say 'These are Custodians'.

Because the first one, eh, fair enough. Your army, your aesthetics.

The second one is fething lazy and will lead to terrible games because your opponent often will have too much going on with their own army to remember what in yours is pretending to be what today.

I've had a lousy experience recently with someone using two minis from Malifaux as counts-as Coteaz and a Culexus. Problem was they looked damn near identical (only difference was the pose) and his argument was that it better suited the theme of his army - still didn't help me distinguish which one was what when both looked fething identical in armament and attire save for their pose.

troa wrote:

Davor wrote:
No problems at all. After all you are going by Rule of Cool. You are playing with the minis you want. Anyone who says other wise is just an elitist snob in my opinion. Your money. Your time. Nobody should tell you what you can or can not do. After all if they have an issue with them, that speaks of their character and would be a person you wouldn't want to play with anyways.

People are elitist snobs if they want units to be differentiated enough so as to easily tell what they are and what they're carrying at a glance vs having to refer back to the sheets? Pretty low standard then, since evidently only elitist snobs wish to avoid confusion. No one else can tell anyone else what to do, but they can choose not to play with that person or view him as WAAC if the proxy is simply a proxy with no effort to convert or change the appearance away from the rest of the army. No idea whether he's going to do any conversion since he has yet to say, but get off your high horse, it is a poor platform for argument since it does not seek any understanding whatsoever before making sweeping statements.

Yes people are elitist snobs for wanting units to be differentiated. After all you are now telling people how they need to model their minis. Simple as that. Who are you to tell someone they are wrong in how to model a mini?

Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Davor wrote:
No problems at all. After all you are going by Rule of Cool. You are playing with the minis you want. Anyone who says other wise is just an elitist snob in my opinion. Your money. Your time. Nobody should tell you what you can or can not do. After all if they have an issue with them, that speaks of their character and would be a person you wouldn't want to play with anyways.

You're saying that I can bring the cheapest possible models available (Grots, at roughly £1 per model) to represent any Infantry model, and if you can't identify that that Grot A is either a Devastator with a lascannon or a Vanguard Veteran with a thunderhammer and storm shield? I mean, you can't tell me that I need to differentiate between them, so as per your ruling, I can field an army of grot models and say that they represent any Infantry model in the game, and not need anything to determine their wargear or unit type?

Nice.

That is right. You can field what ever you like. Just don't change what they are during the game.

People are making a big thing out of nothing. After all I am sure the people who are complaining know almost all the charts off by heart, know their codex inside out, doesn't have to go to the Big Rule Book because they know almost all the Universal Special Rules but yet are totally stumped for a "counts as"?

Do people have a problem talking to their opponent? After all what is wrong asking "Sorry I forget what that unit is, can you please tell me again."

Also how come people don't have problems with psychic powers and other stuff when they are not modelled on a mini?

 Jaxler wrote:

 troa wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
Okay, the main reason why I'd be doing this is because I like paladins but I feel like they're borderline unuseable in the current game when a model that costs 5 points less gets 2 extra attacks, extra strength init weapons skill and eternal warrior, etc. I figured since they were about the same hight and had similar weapons it'd be fine. Point is I do own real custodians, I just prefer grey knight models. If I did some sort of conversion work to make them stand out from normal grey Knights, would that be enough?

If you want more specific answers, you'll need to describe how you are going to convert them. You're simply not giving enough info for a clear picture for people here. Additionally, you're the only one at the end of the day who knows your local community and how they may react.

I don't have any plans and I'm wondering how far I'd need to. Right now I'm thinking just give them plumes and custodian weapons.

Once there gold it should be pretty obvious. Custodians weapons make them ultra obvious and no confused as to what they carry.
Probably need the plumes. That's ernough to make life easy which is what.

I compared one to a tartous termy and there a good head taller than a terminator marine. Plume will make up for the slightly shorter height.

I'd be mildly annoyed but gotta admit I won't blame anybody wanting to do this. They're SO bad right now.

Yes. I would be annoyed.
Though I would accept it if they are converted to have no Grey Knight/Inquisition symbols, have plumes and carry the appropriate weapons.

If you want to run Custodes without breaking the bank, it's not too hard. You can get some of those starter set Stormcast models for almost nothing (like $2.50 per model on ebay). Throw on some spare Custodes weapons and the jobs done. Sometimes all you need is the sword.


I have 30 Custodes (actually 10 are stormcasts) but when you swap in a custode head and arms you almost can't tell, even when mixing them with official models.

 cuda1179 wrote:
If you want to run Custodes without breaking the bank, it's not too hard. You can get some of those starter set Stormcast models for almost nothing (like $2.50 per model on ebay). Throw on some spare Custodes weapons and the jobs done. Sometimes all you need is the sword.


I have 30 Custodes (actually 10 are stormcasts) but when you swap in a custode head and arms you almost can't tell, even when mixing them with official models.

It's less not wanting to break bank and me wanting to keep the army looking sorta consistent

If it's for consistency's sake, there is nothing that is stopping you from making your Custodes models look like they are Grey Knights. Custodes are about the same size as GK terminators, so you could just use GK terminator heads and shoulder pads on the Custodes. Then use vanilla terminator storm shields. Paint them your army color and call it a day. I'd also say that if you wanted to arm them with GK terminator halberds you could. Just put a bolter in the other hand.

They'd look sufficiently "Grey Knight" while still being WYSIWYG.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
You're saying that I can bring the cheapest possible models available (Grots, at roughly £1 per model) to represent any Infantry model, and if you can't identify that that Grot A is either a Devastator with a lascannon or a Vanguard Veteran with a thunderhammer and storm shield? I mean, you can't tell me that I need to differentiate between them, so as per your ruling, I can field an army of grot models and say that they represent any Infantry model in the game, and not need anything to determine their wargear or unit type?

This brings up a fair point-- if you're doing it to get in cheaper, I'd actually take an army of paper standees that are the right size but clear over regularly using confusing models to represent things.

I personally wouldn't mind that, so long as those paper standees are sufficiently 3D that they don't cause Line of Sight issues.

Enjoying the gaming aspect of 40k is a separate element from enjoying the hobbying aspect. I happen to enjoy both, but I wouldn't demand both from an opponent (so long as I can still enjoy the gaming aspect).

There's also shades of gray between getting the "right" model at high expense (here, the Custodes models) and pursuing the cheapest option (paper standees). One can still enjoy the hobby aspects without enjoying the price tag of 100% compliance with using only the "right" model.

Nothing wrong with stand ins as long as you put some effort into making them look right. Personally I wish more people would mod their bits.

So right now, I've got them with the proper weapons and load out, including spears that are from custodians, and swords/shield from the custodians from burning of prospero. I'm going to paint them different from the rest of my army, give them some nice bases on top of all the other dodads and cool bits that paladins should have.

I'm hoping this should do well enough to make them stick out.