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Thing 1 had a burst of energy after his homework tonight and got most of the basic painting done on his Vindicator. He is a boy possessed... possessed by the desire to get to painting his Necrons! Anyway, pretty nice job so far. Still much to do.

Haha. I love it when I get into a painting frenzy, trying to churn out as many models as I can in time for my next game, or to finish so I could start a new army. Ah, good times...

Couple of points +1, Hopefully relevant.. first he's young with I guess a limited amount of games and opponents under his hat. Second... I think it's ok to be shooty as long as you have a follow up plan on turn 3 and 4 to go after the objective(s). Third strategy and tactics are not the same and both can be taught. Marines in general are a better shoot first, mop up later army. They can be aggressive effective ( like the BA, white scars, ravenwing DA's ect) but that depends on the army choices you make. ( all obvious stuff here)

Here are my suggestions. Set up the game with defined VP's. Have him write out his overall strategy to win the game (Not the individual objectives). After each turn have him discuss his choices to defend his overall plan. Offer to give him advice only at these stages of the game. Continue to conclusion then analyze the whole plan. Then..... fight the same battle over using the same overall plan but with a chang it tactics.

Another. Earlier in this post you mentioned running squad size games. Run them on a smaller table, and ignore the coherency rules. This can make for a faster and faster re-playable game to teach strategy. Remember to make the 2 forces equally playability capable. (Ie… no Terminators vs. Gretchen). Think Necromunda for Marines. From there you can start adding new elements ( additional models ) to change the game to direct him to the right tactics per the choices.

Third, get him playing more games, and more game to conclusion ( smaller games like mentioned above should help the time factor). I like your ideas on switching sides. Brilliant.

Lastly, something I know you are good at… Lead by example. When you counter his move explain why. When he gets you, shower the praise.
I hope this is help. I really like his new painted squad. Excellent. Sign me and him up for a marine swap!

Great ideas Solar, thank you. We'll give that a try.

I know he'll be delighted to do a marine for you... though you've already done a ton of marines for him, so I think he owes you!

We'll do a real swap. One with an updated marine with the new shoulder pad. I'll make him a sarge so he can use him with the current squad.

Great! I'll let him know. What kind of marine would you like in return?

I'll round out the trio if you like, Any game I play I'm always a long range damage dealer be in WOW, 40K or any other RPG I play. I have to really try hard to select armies or chars that are based on melee combat. Jason makes a good point,if he has learnt a slightly defensive style of you show him another aggressive player. Another option could be to make a doubles game that way he will feel like he is taking the decisions with you rather than being coached.

Hmmmm... Well, I don't object to his running a shooty army... that's my natural inclination as well & I'm having to really work to get the hang of running my orks as a more assaulty force as that's not my nature either.

I like where you guys are going... just a challenge logistically this fall with school, soccer and scouting and all. Still, I may be able to tap a couple of my buds at the FLGS to help out. Think they'll need to be playing 'nilla space marines (in a doubles game) for him to get anything out of it though, otherwise he'll just say it was the army & not the tactics.

Food for thought... thanks guys!

From what i have gathered from viewing this thread is that, well i don't think your enjoying the ork army as yea, as you stated it doesn't fit your nature. imho you should work up another army with this "shooty" nature, perhaps tau, more SM, IG. Still keep the ork army as you have put a lot of effort into it or completely change your army list to have like 45 loota's, all the boyz with shootas instead of slugga's, it might hinder your performance but at least your enjoying it more. Anyway that's my input on things, totally your decision.

I appreciate that Murray, you're comments are welcome. It was a struggle at first but I am actually slowly getting the hang of CC orks. Actually I usually have better results with close combat orks as opposed to shooty ones because I have miserable luck with dice, and cc is a little less dependent on good dice rolls.

Which brings us to another cogent point about the subject of this thread... the 10-year old, who has apparently inherited my lousy luck with dice... so his attempts to be successful with a shooty army are being frustrated by that as well. But... that can't be helped, you just need to be a better player to get past your dice.

or new dice

There is a knack to rolling the dice though I remember watching a vegas pro on a vid show you how to get good rolls. I think its same principle as the buttered toast thing it depends on how the dice starts and the distance it falls plus the energy and motion you put into the roll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJbUwnnlIFQ&feature=related

Just to prove I'm not crazy.

Woah, impressive...

Also, Git, I like Murray's idea of an "all-shooty" Ork list... Would be pretty unusual & unsettling for your opponent, which could help balance the loss in efficiency!!

wow .. watched the video. Sadly if you need to cheat at 40K to win maybe you in it for the wrong reason.

Try going to the game store and letting him pick out the dice he likes. Not sure it'll help as the universe is fickle, but would give him a drive to be positive during play.

In the end good sportsmanship is the only cure. Win or lose with Honor.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS. have him do a regular SM trooper. I'll do a sarge to replace the one he has.

Looking good love the look of the tank and the termies

Thanks! He's got his tac squad to the point where it's just waiting for me to do the fine details, but it'll have to wait until a get a commitment or two of my own done. Things progress slowly at our house but they do progress.

finally read the 25 page's.

i am not a parent myself (luckly i'am only 21) but we have a lot of youngsters in our club. what we do is giving them tips when they want to do somthing and have a older member help them but still let them play and only give them tips on the background i a way like i would have done this or that.

about the fear of lossing models i cant help i run full terminator armies and deep strik 5 terminators in a place i know they will die but if it means i can get a small advantage ill do it. plus full gretchin armies die alot.

and too prove winning is not everything why dont you make a ridiculos army that is wacked cant win but sure if fun too use maby that will lure him out of his shell.

I am making a BA army at the momement with 9 dead's 15 death company and a librarian. once i get started i wil make a P&M blog for them as i want too convert everything.

Lastly i would like too apoligice for my bad englisch (dyslectic and dutch) and i want too say that this treat is the best becuase it shows what warhammer is a fun game for the whole family.

greets Fatty

No problem on all counts Fatty, thanks for taking the time to get caught up on the blog and commenting.

Your points are well made, the funny part is that MY main army is actually pretty stupid from a competitive standpoint but I play it all the time. It's fluff based and very characterful... and I love it. So he does see an example of this quite frequently, guess it's just not relating for him.

It's not just in gaming that he has this problem. If he's playing soccer and he perceives that he's at a disadvantage or is going to lose he tends to give up, thus ensuring that he'll lose. I'm working on this in soccer (he's on a team full of 10-year-olds playing teams up to 14-year-old, so they are at a huge disadvantage and tend to get slaughtered every game.

I'm trying to work on the soccer issue with him... not that I know anything about soccer but I'm trying to get him to turn his focus inward. i.e. "It's not important what the score is, your focus is to be better each time to take the field." I'm also reinforcing the message that you never quit on the field... if he wants to quit soccer all-together that's fine with me, but you do that off the field in-between games. If you don the uniform and take the field, you owe your teammates and coach 100% effort until the game is done, no matter what.

These are life lessons, not just sports or gaming lessons. If they sink in though, they will certainly help his issues on the gaming table.

@Gitsplitta Perhaps you should get tapes of the following matches for your son: Bulgaria - Germany in the 94 Cup (Underdog Bulgaria eliminates defending champs); Switzerland v. Spain 2010 (underdog swiss beat eventual champion spain; ; Uruguay v. Brazil 1950; U.S.A. v. Spain Confed Cup 2009 (ending spanish record streak.....) all the winning teams were at a "disadvantage" against more highly rated teams and yet they won.

Also there's thermopolaye; and Marathon; where greeks far outnumbered stood against incredible odds....Thermopolaye a defeat but legendary for the final stand. Marathon a great greek victory.

Those are all good suggestions Bee, not sure where I'd find tapes of the games but I'll inquire. The Thermopolaye example is a good one. Another real historical example that relates to something he's interested in.

Thanks!

what about 300?

Gitsplitta wrote:It's not just in gaming that he has this problem. If he's playing soccer and he perceives that he's at a disadvantage or is going to lose he tends to give up, thus ensuring that he'll lose. I'm working on this in soccer (he's on a team full of 10-year-olds playing teams up to 14-year-old, so they are at a huge disadvantage and tend to get slaughtered every game.

As a hockey player I can sympathise him, I got up at 6:15 today to go play an away match. We got there, played pretty well but we were still beaten 2-0 and I now have a badly bruised achilles heel. However, I saw it as a success, because last year they beat my team 4-0 and it was evident that we had played a better game than they did this time. What mattered most though, was I enjoyed playing, despite the injury.

And to keep him encouraged you should tell him this next little bit:
Two years ago I was playing my first proper hockey game, I was 12 and the opposition was largely made up of 13-16 year olds, most of them 15. I was a bit disheartend but our team held our ground. They only scored one goal against us, but we scored 2 proving that despite the fact 50% of my team were 12 and the rest no older than 14 we still managed to beat a team who were older and bigger than us (well me, I'm a pretty small person). It always feels good when a team of underdogs win.

Anthony_D wrote:what about 300?

This is the Battle of Thermopylae that BeeLow01 was talking about where 7000+ Greeks (I use the term loosely) defended their position for three days against upwards of ten times their number.
But agreed damn good film, also I would recommend Henry V (1989) just because really, you can tell Thing1 that if he wants his army to do well he has to provide a suitably rousing speech before each battle,

well my sport is judo. i refused too do extreem power training in favour of my bones developing better but it did mean i always was the weaker one but still i won a lot. with judo its all about using your opponnents strengt against him. maybe its an idea if he could do a couple of judo trainings? further more you might want too show thing1 the match between Anton Geesink vs akio Kaminaga the 1964 match in tokio.
he was the fisrt that defeated a Japanese at a Japanese tournament. its the ultimat under dog match.

Antone Geesking R.I.P. he died 3 weeks ago

Git, awesome job with your boys, man.

I have been lurking here since I started playing and only discovered this thread today. I spent at least 4 hours going through all your posts -- and you made me join so I could comment.

You truly are a great dad. That birthday party was epic. As stupid as this may sound, this thread has warmed my heart. I just got done dinner with my wife and was telling her all about the bronze warboss you made and the fluff behind it (she loves Orks) and she loved your story.

As far as the timidness, I can relate. The guy who taught me to play offered me this advice: "They'll never do anything epic if you never let them do anything. If they die, you can have them back next game, I promise."

You seem to have that purity seal thing down, I'm wondering if you'd consider making little purity seals or badges for your son for any of his units that do something awesome. Then, he'll be getting achievement points or "Buckeyes" every time his guys act boldly.

I don't know if this would be counterintuitive in his case, but maybe give each guy a name and keep track of what they do in some sort of scrapbook. You could even give them real ranks if they score a certain number of "points." Then again, if you give them names, your son might become even more attached to them. =)

At any rate, keep up the good work. I look forward to reading more of your adventures.

And if you ever need any Space Wolves objectives, I can hook you up. =)

I just wanted to say a big "thanks!" to all of you that have given sincere suggestions and ideas for helping me get Thing 1 a bit more confidence in both his gaming and his soccer. I don't know how many of you are parents... but when you're a kid, you have no idea how much of parenting is just a wild-a** guess while trying not to turn your kids into little axe murderers. My wife and I still can't believe we're responsible for raising two other human beings. Poor little buggers. But... given that our roles are set, we spend most of our parenting time "winging it". Even after 10 years of practice you're never quite sure you've got it down... so I really appreciate everyone's willingness to share their own experiences and volunteer suggestions that helped them through similar situations. It is a big help. Thank you. I will share your experiences with him in hopes they will help him get over this little bump in the road.

@Johnny_L: I'm glad you've enjoyed the blog and am flattered that you've taken the time to read all the way through it As you have correctly surmised, it's been quite an adventure. I didn't realize what I was getting into when I started this blog, but as I've stated before, it has been very fulfilling. You are welcome to comment at any time, it'll just make this thread richer and more enjoyable for all.

The birthday party was a smashing success. Funny thing is that I'm about the third of fourth dad to put on a party like that in that group of kids. The difference was two-fold... first of course was the gift of the objective markers. The boys really loved that. Most of those kids are still running bare plastic armies, so a nicely assembled and fully painted and flocked objective marker was a big deal. (I also talked up the fact that many were contributed from across the country, which they got a kick out of). Secondly I think, was imposing a little more structure and order on the proceedings than their usual Friday night, loose-on-the-rules Apocalypse game. They all seemed to really appreciate a tighter gaming atmosphere and the fact that they were all part of a larger struggle.

I like you're purity seal idea... I'll steal that one I think.

My convey my gratitude to your wife... I'm glad she enjoyed my little stories. There will be more if I ever have time again to relax and enjoy my orks.

Johnny_Leopold.... Space Wolf objective.... got it!



@Fatty: I have considered martial art training for him... not for the fighting aspects as much as the mental discipline that comes with it. Though I'm not adverse to him learning how to handle himself in a pinch either.


Thing 1 and I are embroiled in a classic "weekend game". We're on turn 4, and he's still hanging in there. He wanted to play the same army that I used in the recent batrap on my Mantis Warrior blog. Since I'd sent off my assault squad, I had to make a change or two, however it is in essence, the same army. I let him look it over, then he built his army accordingly to take advantage of it's weaknesses as he saw them. He did a good job... tanks and terminators... both things my MW's have difficulty dealing with. He's had some set backs, but he's kept in there swinging & is actually winning from a tactical perspective, though I've done slightly more killing. The batrep will be a nightmare as the terrain prevents me from really taking big overhead shots like usual, so I'll have to string together a bunch of tight shots to tell the story. Anyway, I'll work on that so you can see how he's progressed.

I even got a little painting done! Surprise... surprise... surprise!

Gits

Great job Gits, personally my suggestions don't come from my own parenting experiences but from the way I was raised by my own parents and grand parents. I can imagine what you mean though when you say about just 'winging it'. I find it hard enough putting a LR kit together so God only knows what I'll be like when I get my own lil sprogs. I'm reliably informed there is no downloadable PDF file on them, maybe that should be your next project

martial arts is a great way too build confidence. and Judo is a selfdefence form. if he wants a little more in the way of karate than i would say let him do a Ju-Jutsi its judo with kicks and punches.

I am really happy too hear that you two had a wonderfull game. personnaly i preffere too game against younger players because they can make a game really fun instead of older gamers who are in for the win and dont care how they win but that they win. do you get my point i play for the sake of playing not for the outcome. 9 out of 10 games i play we dont even bother too find out who won we where just having a good time and you know what they say. let the good times roll

Prologue:

Since it's "forgiveness" by the Inquisition and return to the Imperium, the Mantis Warriors have been under unprecedented levels of scrutiny by not only the Inquisition, but their fellow chapters as well. Many of these chapters do not agree with the decision to welcome the Mantis Warriors back into the fold, and actively (though covertly) seek to undermine the chapter's status and keep it militarily weak. One such chapter, is the Doom Eagles. Recently the Doom Eagles staged a raid on a shipment of weapons, technology and documents destined for the Mantis Warrior fleet. Unfortunately, the raiders were pursued by Mantis Warrior corvettes, attacked and the damaged ship was forced to land near an abandoned ork compound on a nearby world. No both Doom Eagles and Mantis Warrior forces race to the site to claim the most precious parts of the shipment held by the Doom Eagle agents.


Doom Eagles (Thing 1): 1650 pts

HQ:
Libby w/ jump pack, force dome, the avenger

Elite:
Terminators (6): assault canon, LR + Chronos
Techmarine w/ servo arm

Troops:
Tac Squad (10): flamer, ML, srg w/ PF, rhino w/ HK missile
Tac Squad (10): flamer, ML, srg w/ PW, rhino w/ HK missile

Fast:
Vanguard (5): srg w/ relic blade

Hvy:
Vindicator



Mantis Warriors Penitent: (1650)

HQ:
MoTF + servitor
Libby w/ jump pack, null zone & vortex of doom

Elite:
Venerable Dread: TL autocannons, extra armor
Sternguard (6): bolters, plasma gun, Srg w/ PF

Troops:
Tac Squad (10): plas, ML, Srg w/ PW & plas pistol, rhino
Scout Squad (10): camo cloaks, sniper rifles, ML, Darius Stone (Telion)
Scout Squad (10): sniper rifles, hvy bolter, srg w/ PF

Fast:
Land Speeder Storm: MM

Hvy:
Dreadnought: TL-LC, CCW + HF
Dreadnought: Assault Cannon, CCW + HF



The Table:

4x6', industrial terrain, take and hold (3 objectives marked with red arrows), standard deployment. Doom Eagles on the left, MWs on the right.





Deployment:

Because of the nature of the sight-blocking terrain, I couldn't just take big pictures with arrows like I usually do from the table end... I've got to patch together a bunch of little shots to make the story, sorry if its confusing. The terms of "right", "center" and "left" will be from my (Mantis Warriors) perspective as I am the story teller. I won the roll and chose to go first.

Mantis Warriors:
I decided to deploy most of my strength to my right in order to secure the objective in my rear and use the stompa construction facility to shield my forces from fire from across the table (where his rearward objective was). I decided not to put the scouts in the building with the objective as they would make too good a target for blast template weapons up there early on. Dreads, sternguard and HQ took the center right, with a protected tac squad in the rhino in the right rear to make a late run at the center objective or cover my rearward objective if the scouts got taken out. The LS-storm scouted forward to get an early run on his Vindi.



On my left I put a lone squad of snipers w/ ML in the building to harass his troops and thanks to a gantry, with the possibility of making a late run at the central objective marker (which was on his side of the big Stompa construction facility).



Doom Eagles:

Pretty straightforward... Thing 1 puts his tanks on the ground w/ tech marine for repairs, jump pack troops in reserve. Termies are in LR. You can see the locations of the objectives clearly marked in this shot.




Turn 1:

Mantis Warriors: On my right flank... Tranquility Cetachment and Libby moved left and up. Ven was useless vs. the LR and I wanted to get the sternguard off the ground & in a position to threaten the center or shoot at termies. Libby did his psychic thing (Null Zone). Dreads & MoTF move up to meet the threat, some shooting at LR but no damage.



The LS Storm zips over to keep the Vindy busy. That works for about 3 turns until the Vindy blows it's MM off.



On my left, shooting from my scout's ML (thanks to Telion's BS) takes out one of the Doom Eagle rhinos.



Doom Eagles: On my right... the LR races forward and pukes up it's charges who shoot & then charge my las-cannon dread (see photo above). It makes a large popping sound from the 11 or so PF attacks that penetrate and the resulting explosion kills one of the terminators... this scenario will repeat later. On my left I lose a scout from the now rhino-less and unhappy tactical squad's ML.




Turn 2:

Mantis Warriors: On my right... no nifty little arrows, but as you can see everything shuffles around so we can get a clean shot at those pesky terminators.



Which works for the most part...



Nothing much happens on the left during my half of the turn... some ineffectual shooting.

Doom Eagles: On my right, the terminator embarks into the LR and it roars forwards into my line, luckily it was not quite close enough to tank shock anything.



On my left all hell breaks loose. The vanguard and Libby deep strike into the middle of my backfield. The Solar Lions (one of his tac squads) disembark and move towards his rearward objective while the rhinoless tac squad move toward the center objective.




Turn 3:

Mantis Warriors: On my right... the tac squad embarks and get's the heck outta Dodge, while anything with a power fist type wepon gets into assault range. Assault cannon fire from dread does nothing, neither did the subsequent 11 PF attacks (needing a 6 to hit the fast moving LR).



On my left... the scout squad makes a run across the gantry to get into a position to threaten the central objective or at least harass the troops controlling he rearward objective. Everything else opens up on the Vanguard killing 2 AND the Libby!!



Doom Eagles: Not to be outdone, the Vanguard jet up to stop the scouts and though they don't kill any, pretty much prevent them from having any significant impact on the battle from here on in. On the right the LR legs it backwards out of the reach of my power fists, however the power of the machine knocks the assault cannon off of my remaining regular dread. I think this is the turn the Vindy knocks the gun off the LS-Storm.

Turn 4:

Mantis Warriors: On my right... The scouts begin their move into the building. I've decided to treat the buildings like stationary vehicles when it comes to movement, so they embark this turn and *must* disembark (either top or bottom) next turn. Simple and sticks to established rules. The MoTF & flunky start working their way towards the LR through cover and the tac squad starts it's final dash for the center objective, popping smoke at the end of it's move. I also zoom the damaged LS Storm up next to the LR, mainly to get it into position to challenge the center objective.



In the center, the quarterback calls for a "student body left) and anything that can still move heads towards the central objective.



My sternguard shoots at the squad below at the center objective and *of course* my plasma gun blows up, killing the marine.



We are also visited by two Greater Demons of Change... who tend to change the battlefield into piles of rubble.



On my left the melee continues. I jump my Librarian out to give the scouts a hand. The Doom Eagles lose one vanguard but kill a scout and placing a wound on my libby, thus winning the combat. Luckily all parties pass their LD tests.



Doom Eagles: On my right... the last terminator exits the LR & the Vindy moves towards the board center. The LR turns and shoots at my speeder to no avail. However the now free Vindy and the terminator open up on my sternguard wiping them out. I don't think the Vindy deviated on any shot the entire game.



On my left.... the assault goes badly for the Doom Eagle vanguard and they're taken down by the Librarian's force axe & scouts. Libby and Scouts consolidate towards central objective.




Turn 5:

Mantis Warriors: On my right... the LS Storm tears off to contest the center objective, while the MoTF & Co. assaults the LR. 5 auto-hit servo-arm hits do nothing... Dreads keep chugging towards center objective but they won't get there this turn. Scouts emerge from building to claim objective in my rear. Rhino charges forward towards center objective.



On my left... my Librarian jumps onto the roof top where the Solar Lions are holding an objective, then proceeds to kill himself by failing a psychic test... not sure what that proved. Scouts move to end of side gantries (by the middle of the stompa construction facility) and start to set up shop for next turn.

Doom Eagles: On my right... LR and Vindy shoot at LS-storm and fail to damage it. Solitary terminator shoots at my rhino w/ assault cannon but pings off armor. It then charges the rhino, hits with his PF on a 6, rolls a 6 to explode it, then after being wounded... rolls a 1 to save. All glory to the Emperor! *pif* I lose 3 tac marines in the blast as well. (see above)


We roll and the game ends!

Total:

Mantis Warriors own the objective in their rear.

Doom Eagles (Solar Lions) own the objective in their rear.



Central objective is contested!!





Thing 1 did much better this game & stuck it out even with some early setbacks. I think a lot of has to do with the fact that if the *thinks* he's going to win from the start... he plays a lot harder and smarter & doesn't get discouraged by set-backs. If he thinks he's going to lose from the start... he just goes through the motions and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Gits



Epilogue:

(intercepted Mantis Warrior radio transmission...)

"... Dang it will someone PLEASE sent the Doom Eagles a fruit basket or something?... The Badab War ended 100 years ago!!...."

(end transmission)

i am glad too hear that things1 confidence is improving. every game you have too play with the thoughed too win.