giant stegadon wrote:Did the last battalion only allow you to make X amount of archers & the rest had to be something else? I think I vaguely remember that- & this one you can do whatever your little heart desires. Still $120...*insert joke about needing to rob actual ancient Egyptian tomb to pay for new TK*

lord_blackfang wrote:I think what's killing Fantasy (besides the rules) is the absurd cost of basic infantry.

JimLofa wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:I think what's killing Fantasy (besides the rules) is the absurd cost of basic infantry.

Why do you say fantasy is being killed? Do you mean it is losing market share as its player base leaves the hobby or move to other games, or are you just personally frustrated by some of the drastic changes in rules and game-play trends we have seen in the last year or so?

Also, maybe I'm missing something here, but if GW models are so unreasonably priced then can you show me a company with reasonably priced range of models comparable to GWs? What would you consider to be reasonable prices? What quality would you expect for those prices? When I look at what comes in a box of GW models I see what is for all intents and purposes low priced models with a lot of options that allow players to customize and convert their models so their army is different from anyone else's.

Now, when that is put in the context of a game I agree that infantry costs can mount. Almost every army has the option to take cheep core infantry and the rule system rewards the practice of taking large blocks of infantry. Most armies, however, also allow players to fill core points with less expensive options. We must also remember that games can be played at a variety of point values. If a player wants to keep his expenditures low, he can have a ton of fun playing in 500, 1000, or 1500 point games without taking out a second mortgage to finance the purchase of models.

-Jim

Deus_Morte wrote:Does anyone have any idea how effective skeletal horsemen are/will be? I'm hesitant to buy 2 battalions only to end up with 16 horsemen that I may never use.

JimLofa wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:I think what's killing Fantasy (besides the rules) is the absurd cost of basic infantry.

Why do you say fantasy is being killed? Do you mean it is losing market share as its player base leaves the hobby or move to other games, or are you just personally frustrated by some of the drastic changes in rules and game-play trends we have seen in the last year or so?

JimLofa wrote:
Also, maybe I'm missing something here, but if GW models are so unreasonably priced then can you show me a company with reasonably priced range of models comparable to GWs? What would you consider to be reasonable prices? What quality would you expect for those prices? When I look at what comes in a box of GW models I see what is for all intents and purposes low priced models with a lot of options that allow players to customize and convert their models so their army is different from anyone else's.

JimLofa wrote:
Now, when that is put in the context of a game I agree that infantry costs can mount. Almost every army has the option to take cheep core infantry and the rule system rewards the practice of taking large blocks of infantry. Most armies, however, also allow players to fill core points with less expensive options. We must also remember that games can be played at a variety of point values. If a player wants to keep his expenditures low, he can have a ton of fun playing in 500, 1000, or 1500 point games without taking out a second mortgage to finance the purchase of models.
-Jim

spaceelf wrote:I can confirm that the new battalion is 120 USD and only comes with 8 more skellies than the previous one. So, no new models.

If GW is trying to kill Fantasy they are doing a good job. I like the new models, but there seems to be a substantial number of people who do not. The new book does not have the old TK play style. This will turn off older players. There were some people in the store thinking about starting TK, but after seeing the book they decided not to.

AlexHolker wrote:

kastellan wrote:Does anyone know if they are continuing with the old battalion or bringing out a new one?

From what I've heard, they're getting a new, inferior battalion.

Old:
32 TK infantry, 8 cavalry, 3 chariots for 50 pounds
New:
40 TK infantry, 8 cavalry, 3 chariots for 70 pounds

kirsanth wrote:So I have seen most of the rules/units posted but still nothing about the special characters.

Special Rules
- Never ever march for any reason.
- Always need a Hierophant (wizard of the highest level in army), and if he dies, standard Ld crumbles.
- On that note, Core choices are generally Ld 5, Special and Rare are 8, characters are 7-10.
- Beneath the sand units come up in Remaining Moves part.
- The Curse: Killer of Tomb King suffers D6 S5 wounds, Tomb Prince is D6 S4. All units involved in his death suffer.
- King's "My Will Be Done:" King gives WS6 to unit he has joined, whether on foot, mounted, etc. Doesn't affect mounts.


Characters
Lords
*Settra the Imperishable - His MWBD is 6" bubble instead of only his unit. (25 short of 500 points)
*Khalida - gives BS3 and Poison shots to bowmen units she joins...otherwise is ASF with I9 poison attacks. (as many points as are days in the year)
*Arkhan the Black (60x6 points)
*Grand Hierophant Khatep (30 less than Arkhan)
Tomb King (17x10 points)
Liche High Priest (5 points more than King)

Heroes
*The Herald Nekaph (1/3 the points of Arkhan)
*Prince Apophas (10 more than Nekaph)
*Ramhotep the Visionary (10 less than Nekaph)
Tomb Prince
Liche Priest (70 points base)
Tomb Herald - All heralds are oathed to a single king or whatever; when oathed person takes wound, on a 2+ it's bounced to the herald; Stats are mostly 4's and 3's.

Core (all command groups are 10 per dude for total 30)
Skeleton Warriors - as said
Skeleton Bowmen - Light Armor is an upgrade
Skeleton Horsemen - as stated
Skeleton Horse Archers - Scouting Fast Cav archers? yes please!
Chariots - as stated

Special
Tomb Guard
Tomb Swarms
Tomb Scorpions (killing blow, MR(1), Poison Attacks
Carrion
Ushtabi - S4 and GW stock. May swap GW for AHW or Great Bow (S6, 30:, volley fire) for free (only one option may be taken) (also hot models)
Sepulcheral Stalkers - WS3 instead of 4. Transmogrifying gaze can target any model/unit (i think you can pick out characters) within 8". Model suffers 1 artillery dice worth for each stalker in the unit (mmm, 60 hits....), S1, roll vs Initiative, no armor save
Necropolis Knights
Warsphinx - thundercrush works against infantry, warbeasts, and swarms. (210 points)

Rare
Necrosphinx - 1 more attack than warsphinx
Casket of Souls - T10, 3 wounds, bound level 5, 48", unit takes Ld test on 3D6, suffers wounds equal to the difference, no armor save; on a 3+ bounces to next unit within 6". This continues until eith er you roll a 1-2 or there are no other units in range. Units can only be hit once.
Screaming Skull Catapult - magical flaming attacks, causes panic for single wound. 90/30 points
Necrolith Colossus (bone giant) - Unstoppable assault: for every wound that goes unsaved, gets an extra attack; these extra attacks can produce yet more extra attacks, etc.
Hieortitan - bone giant priest. has Shem's Burning Gaze (light) and Spirit Leech (death)

Magic Items
Destroyer of Entities (80) - +2S, heroic killing blow, sweep attack auto-hits all models in BTB
Blade of Antarhak (50) - each wound caused regains a wound in unit or him; if full, he gains regeneration
Cloak of Dunes (50) - fly, if flying over enemy unit they suffer 2D6 S2 hits, can be used repeatedly, and hit every unit flown over each turn.
Golden Death Mask (60) - causes terror; enemy unit within 6" cannot use General's Ld
Scrolls of Mighty Incantation (50) - One use; gain dice to use on this spell equal to caster level; these are not power dice.
Enkhil's kanopi (25) - bound level 3; dispel all Remains in Play spells on a 2+ each; gain D3 power dice for each successfully removed
Standard of the Undying Legion - bound level 5 - augment that regens D6 +2 skellies (so also regens D3+1 due to lore)
Banner of Hidden Dead (90) - pick one unit over 150 points; it gains entombed beneath the sands, if the marker is placed within 12" of the banner, may reroll scatter and artillery dice.

kirsanth wrote:Thanks, Amaya! (I think I saw that post or one like it, minus the SCs. . .oops)

Sad Khalida isn't so good, but that is the way the cookie crumbles pendulum swings.

Lords
Tomb King - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Khemrian Warsphinx.

Well on the surface one might not notice too much has changed from the Tomb King of old...however there are a few noted differences. His MWBD is no longer a spell based ability, and instead transfers his unmodified(important note)weapon skill to his unit. As far as combat characters go, he is a solid hitter, and a very respectable tank due to higher than average Lords starting wounds. I expect to see a lot of Tomb King's fielded with the Death Mask, GW, and insert your remaining defensive kit here. Mounting him really only seems to be a liability IMHO as it will often be easier to clear out his ride from below him, or paste them both in the case of the monster mount.

High Liche Priest - Level 3 Wizard, can upgrade to level 4. Can choose the Lore of Nehekhara, Light, or Death. Mounts: Skeletal Steed.

Heroes
Tomb Prince - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Khemrian Warsphinx.

Along with his Lord counterpart, the Tomb Prince has remained much the same, with the MWBD being the notable difference. He shares the same strengths and weakness to fire, and has the same mundane and mount options. Tomb Princes seem to be the way to go, if MWBD spam is your goal, as they are cheaper than the TK and the WS difference is negligible at best.

Tomb Herald - Flammable, Killing Blow, Sworn Bodyguard. Has LA and HW, and can take a GW, Flail, Spear, Halberd, and/or S. Mounts: Skeleton Chariot or a Skeletal Steed. May upgrade to a BSB.

Extreme Makeover Icon Bearer Edition! This is the new Icon Bearer, with a few changes, notably his fear of fire and his bodyguard rule, which acts as a pseudo LOS for a nominated TK/TP in his unit once per phase, where the Herald steps in and takes the hit instead of Jack Skellington. He might see some use in Construct heavy lists, or to provide some protection for DoE wielding TK's, but I am not so sure on him yet. I would be more interested if there was a Magic Banner I had to have, as the list is somewhat limited in who can take them.

Liche Priest - Level 1 Wizard, can upgrade to level 2. Can choose the Lore of Nehekhara, Light, or Death. Mounts: Skeletal Steed.

Necrotect - Flammable, Stone Shaper, Wrath of the Creator, Hatred. Has LA, HW, and Whip.

The new hero choice, and boy is he a feisty one! He is fairly close to a Herald in stats, but that isn't where his power lies. He can grant nearby Constructs Regeneration 6+(Game Changer Alert...). Oh, he also gives the unit he is in Hatred. Which is why you take him. Couples quite nicely with the changes to MWBD, and this guy is actually fairly cheap. I expect to see him in just about every list.

Core
Skeleton Warriors - Unit size 10+ Has HW and S, can also take LA and/or Spears.

They are cheaper now, and lost a unit cap, which is great. They will make decent tar pits, or speed bumps depending how large you field them, and whether or not you give them character support. At this point, I think honestly fielding them as is, is the way to go, but Spears may have merit if you plan on making them a combat unit with buffs, but I would advise just starting with a unit that is good at combat.

Skeleton Archers - Unit size 10+ Arrows of Asaph. Has HW and Bow, can also take LA.

Same deal as the warrior counterparts really. Would have loved to see stand and shoot as a charge reaction, but it isn't there. Shooting is a mixed bag in 8th, well non war machine fire, for the most part. A lot of it probably comes down to your current meta as well. After talking to GM today though, he was quick to open my mind to the merit that they have for flushing out core, and creating soft spots for squishy priests to land.

Skeleton Horsemen - Unit size 5+ Vanguard. Has Spear and S, can also take LA.

Fear the TK "heavy" cavalry...well technically most armies do, but they shouldn't. These guys just don't catch a break. I mean they aren't terrible, but cavalry is rather hit and miss, and usually reserved for really "good" cavalry units. There might be some uses for being faster and going after war machines, etc. I don't see it yet, but the book isn't technically out at this point either.

Skeleton Horse Archers - Unit size 5+ Arrows of Asaph, Fast Cavalry, and Scouts.

These guys are pretty versatile for their points. While they aren't likely to just fell war machines in one go, unless you field a LARGE unit, they can be pretty good at harassing, and diverting. They can get in close and either pepper the enemy, or move in for the charge on subsequent rounds on VERY soft targets.

Skeleton Chariots - Unit size 3+ And the Tomb Kings Rode to War, Arrows of Asaph, Chariot Legions. Has Spears and Bows. One unit may take a magic standard up to 25 points.

Initially I was pretty much impressed with these guys. The drivers picked up an extra attack, they gained rank bonus at 3 wide, and gained a version of the Ogre Bull Charge picking up a strength bonus for impact hits for ranks behind the first. Also their impact hits increased to 1d6. However, they did retain a shoddy armor save, and a hefty points increase for their trouble, as well as losing their Fast Cavalry rule. They are able to take a magic standard, though it is one unit of chariots only, and capped at 25 points. They are core though, and can be pretty solid flankers due to a higher move than most of the army.

Special
Tomb Guard - Unit size 10+ Killing Blow. Has LA and S, may take Halberds, and may take a magic standard up to 50 points.

Good old Tomb Guard, now without the hindrance of a unit size cap. Also a new equipment option is very much welcomed. They lost magical attacks in exchange for having the KB special rule, which means you will have to find other ways of dealing with Ethereal units, and Forest Spirits are happier(if they can stop being emo long enough in 8th edition), but also means you are free to kit them out with Flaming Attacks from a certain Magic Standard if you should choose. Halberds are a pretty solid choice, as it gives you some solid hitting power, and you don't have exactly "stellar" armor saves to begin with, so the S isn't missed too much. I expect these to be fielded as mainstay combat troops, or as "death stars" loaded up with a few characters. I am thinking unit sizes of 30+ will be the normal.

Necropolis Knights - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Killing Blow(Riders only), Poisoned Attacks(Necroserpent only), Stone Hide. Has Spear, may be upgraded to have the Entombed Beneath the Sands special rule.

The lovingly posed snake surfing knights...They have a decent armor save at least, and can do some damage in combat, but Bloodcrushers they are not. Pretty pricey as well, though might have some decent uses popping up from below to try and hit flanks and rears of engaged enemies.

Tomb Scorpion - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Killing Blow, Magic Resistance(1), Poisoned Attacks.

The scorpion lost a wound for his troubles, and didn't gain anything. He remains the same as ever, with his main role being to hunt soft targets. Not a bad choice by any means, but nothing to really jump up and down about now that he can't just pop up and into a war machine.

Ushabti - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Arrows of Asaph. Has GW and HW, may swap GW for either Great Bows or Additional HWs.

I have seen quite a few folks who are very excited for the Great Bow option, and I have to initially disagree with the excitement. They do not have a greater BS, and are still a large points investment for what is by default a single shot weapon. They lost the base strength 6, and with it the lovely high strength Stomp attack. I won't go out and say they are terrible because they did have a significant drop in points, but they remain a really cool model at least.

Tomb Swarm - Unit size 2-10 Entombed Beneath the Sands, Poisoned Attacks.

Drop in points, and moved to Special choice. These guys are honestly probably a better buy than a Tomb Scorpion if you want to delegate something to hide and pop up for dedicated War Machine hunting. They aren't anything special, but they should do the job, and for the cost of 2 bases, you will end up with more attacks, and wounds than a single scorpion, and have some points to spare.

Carrion - Unit size 3+ Fly.

Khemrian Warsphinx - Unit size 1 and 4 crew Animated Construct, Howdah Crew, Killing Blow(Crew only), Large Target, Terror, Thundercrush Attack. Crew come with Spears, Warsphinx may take Envenomed Sting and/or Fiery Roar upgrades.

This is something I am excited for. The breath weapon upgrade is, as its name implies, flaming. Which is a pretty useful these days. It has the lowest Initiative possible, whilst still having one, so will need to pray to dodge PoS and PSoX, but what Undead army wants to get hit by those? Granted a Hydra beats it(barely), and is a chunk less, he still sees play. These guys are fantastic at churning large infantry blocks. Thundercrush, crew attacks, and Thunderstomp can lay the serious hurt. To maximize your Thundercrush, try to boost the WS with Lore of Light.

Sepulchral Stalkers - Unit size 3+ Animated Construct, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Transmogrifying Gaze. Has Halberds.

These guys look pretty neat. The gaze would be great if it was allowed to tag War Machines, and as such, there are actually only several realistic targets for it. Most of which have better options available to you. They may prove to be decent harassment units, but would love it if the Wizards had access to Shadows.

Rare
Necrolith Colossus - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Arrows of Asaph, Large Target, Terror, and Unstoppable Assault. Has HW, may take Additional HW, GW, or Bow of the Desert

Traded in his armor for Toughness and a points drop. He can do some solid damage on blocks, especially with a WS boost.

Hierotitan - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Large Target, Spirit Conduit, and Terror. Has Icon of Ptra and Scales of Usirian.

A Liche buried in a Bone Giant of old, with fluff describing it basically as a giant piece of "bling"... This is your magic buffing statue of doom. Similar to the Colossus, with less attack. He will work best if you have multiple wizards nearby, as he can increase the casting levels. Has the default spells from the Lores of Light and Death as Bound Spells, and isn't too terribly priced. Will be a decent pick should you decide to go magic heavy, and likely mandatory in that event.

Necrosphinx - Unit size 1 Animated Construct, Decapitating Strike, Fly, Killing Blow, Large Target, and Terror. May be upgraded to take Envenomed Sting.

He flies, his wings can't support him, get over it. Maybe he turned in a few millenniums’ worth of frequent flyer miles, maybe he stole Eldar Grav technology, who knows/cares. This is your monster killer. He is pretty good at it as well. Flying is really what makes this guy tick. As without marching, it does make him pretty fast still. And while it might not be his purpose, does give him the ability to maneuver to other targets as needed(war machines, etc.). Decapitating strike lets one attack hit max strength and HKB which is nice, but not exactly dependable, so don't get caught with your pants down praying for it.

Screaming Skull Catapult - Unit size 1 Screaming Skull Catapult and 3 Skeleton Crew Screaming Skulls. Crew come with HW and LA, Screaming Skull Catapult may be upgraded to take Skulls of the Foe.

Overall still a very useful piece of artillery. Flaming and magical attacks that cause panic from one wound is pretty solid, just like it was. No more double tapping, which is sad, but overall this thing is still worth its weight in gold. The upgrade became more expensive, most likely because of the Death Mask, which couples quite nicely with this piece.

Casket of Souls - Unit Size 1 Casket of Souls, 1 Keeper of the Casket, and 2 Casket Guards. Covenant of Power, Killing Blow(Casket Guard only), Light of Death, and Unleashed Souls. Keeper of the Casket Has LA and HW, Casket Guard come with LA and GWs.

The Casket underwent some serious changes as well. Moving to a Rare selection, and no longer a character mount is a good thing. One or more of them on the field act as a HE Standard of Sorcery which is quite awesome, and Light of Death is now a Bound Spell, but you can't use it is you moved. The Light however is better as it is a LD test on three dice, and bounces on a 3+ to enemy units within 6". You are not able to hit the same enemy more than once a phase though. Has a chance to ping anyone near if it dies. The Casket Guard should be noted as not being Tomb Guard anymore, they have lower stats now.

Magic Items
Destroyer of Eternities(Tomb King on Foot Only) - Magic Weapon that grants +2 Strength and the Heroic Killing Blow ability. Can exchange all of the wielder's attacks to inflict one automatic hit on all enemy models in base contact. Will hit both rider and mount, and will only hit the model involved in a challenge where applicable, these hits also benefit from +2 Strength and HKB.

Blade of Antarhak - Magic Weapon that for every unsaved wound inflicted by the blade, the wielder regains one wound, if the wielder is already at their starting wounds, they gain Regeneration until the end of the next player turn.

Golden Death Mask of Kharnut - Enchanted Item that grants the bearer Terror, in addition all enemy units within 6" cannot make use of their General's Inspiring Presence rule or their BSB's Hold Your Ground rule.

Cloak of the Dunes(Infantry Character on Foot Only) - Enchanted Item that allows bearer to fly, in addition if the bearer moves over any unengaged enemy units in the remaining moves phase, that unit suffers 2d6 Strength 2 hits distributed as shooting. The bearer may move over several units hitting them all, but will only cause one set of hits per unit per movement phase.

Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations - Arcane Item, one use only. Declare use prior to casting a spell, the Wizard adds a number of bonus dice equal to his caster level to the Power Dice that they were going to use(you must use at least one PD from the pool). These bonus dice do not count as PD, however any double rolled while casting this spell will result in Irresistible Force and a Miscast.

Enkhil's Kanopi - Arcane Item, Bound Spell Power Level 3, if successfully cast roll a 1d6 for each Remains In Play Spell on the table. On a 2+ that spell is immediately dispelled. Adds 1d3 PD to your pool for each spell dispelled this way.

Standard of the Undying Legion - Magic Standard, Bound Spell Level 5, Augment Spell if successfully cast the bearer's unit immediately regains 1d6+2 wounds worth of models.

Banner of the Hidden Dead - Magic Standard, Nominate one of your units of Infantry, Cavalry, or Chariots with the Nehekharan Undead rule that has yet to deploy, and is no greater than 150 points. That unit gains the Entombed Beneath the Sands rule, and when that unit emerges, you must place the marker within 12" of the banner's bearer. Additionally any units emerging from EBtS with a marker within 12" of the banner's bearer may re roll the artillery and scatter dice when emerging.

Lore of Nehekhara
Lore Attribute - The Restless Dead: Each time a wizard successfully casts an augment spell from the Lore of Nehekhara on a friendly Nehekharan Undead unit, that unit regains 1d3 + 1 wounds worth of models. Units with the Animated Constructs Rule can only ever regain a single lost wound this way, per magic phase.

Signature Spell - Khsar's Incantation of the Desert Wind
Casting: 8+ [Boost 16+]
Range: 12" Radius [Boost 24" Radius]
Augment Spell If successful targets all friendly unengaged Nehekharan Undead units within 12"/24", those units can immediately make a normal move as it were the Remaining Moves phase. No unit may move more than once per magic phase per this spell, but may still be targeted in order to use the Lore Attribute.

1 - Djaf's Incantation of Cursed Blades
Casting: 7+ [Boost 10+]
Range: 12" [Boost 24"]
Augment Spell Target unit within 12"/24" gains the Killing Blow ability for close combat attacks until the start of the caster's next magic phase. If the target already has the Heroic Killing Blow/Killing Blow ability, the ability will trigger on a 5+ instead of a 6+.

2 - Neru's Incantation of Protection
Casting: 9+ [Boost 18+]
Range: 12" [Boost 12" Radius]
Augment Spell Target unit/all friendly Nehekharan Undead units gain a 5+ ward save until the start of the caster's next magic phase.

3 - Ptra's Incantation of Righteous Smiting
Casting: 9+ [Boost 18+]
Range: 12" [Boost 24" Radius]
Augment Spell Target unit/all friendly Nehekharan Undead units has their attacks characteristic increased by one until the start of the caster's next magic phase. Additionally if the target(s) are armed with a bow or great bow, they gain the Multiple Shots (2) rule.

4 - Usirian's Incantation of Vengeance
Casting: 10+ [Boost 13+]
Range: 18" [Boost 36"]
Hex Spell The target unit suffers - 1d3 to its movement (to a minimum of one) and treats all terrain (including open ground) as Dangerous Terrain until the start of the caster's next magic phase.

5 - Usekhp's Incantation of Desiccation
Casting: 11+ [Boost 22+]
Range: 24" [Boost 24"]
Hex Spell The target has -1 Strength and -1 Toughness (both to a minimum of one) / -1d3 Strength and Toughness (both to a minimum of one) until the start of the Caster's Next Magic Phase.

6 - Sakhmet's Incantation of the Skullstorm
Casting: 15+ [Boost 25+]
Range: Artillery Die x Wizard Level [Boosted Artillery Die x Wizard Level]
Remains in Play Magical Vortex Place the small/large template and nominate direction. Misfire centers template on caster and moves in a random direction. Models touched by template suffer a Strength 4 hit.

Special Characters
Settra the Imperishable - The Curse, Flammable, My Will Be Done, and Settra the Great. Has The Blessed Blade of Ptra, LA, Chariot of the Gods, The Crown of Nehekhara, The Scarab Brooch of Usirian. Settra is also a Level 1 Wizard who must use the Lore of Nehekhara and may be your army's Hierophant.

High Queen Khalida - Always Strikes First, Blessing of Asaph, The Curse, Flammable, Hatred(Vampire Counts, Incarnation of the Asp Goddess, and Poisoned Attacks. Has The Venom Staff and LA.

Arkhan the Black - The Curse and Flammable. Has The Tomb Blade of Arkhan, LA, The Liber Mortis, and the Staff of Nagash. May be mounted on a Skeleton Chariot, and the Chariot may be upgraded with 2 additional Skeleton Steeds, and/or to gain the Fly special rule. Arkhan is a Level 4 wizard who must use the Lore of Death and may be your army's Hierophant.

Grand Hierophant Khatep - Grand Hierophant of Khemri and Loremaster(Lore of Nehekhara). Has HW, The Liche Staff, and Scroll of the Cursing Word. Khatep is a level 4 wizard who must use the Lore of Nehekhara, and must be your army's Hierophant.

The Herald Nekaph - Flammable, Herald of Despair, Killing Blow, Sworn Bodyguard, and Settra's Champion. Has Flail of Skulls and LA. May be mounted on a Skeleton Chariot or Skeleton Steed.

Prince Apophas - Desert Revenant, Entombed Beneath the Sands, Fly, Regeneration, Scarab Prince, Soul Reaper, Strider, and Terror. Has HW and LA.

Ramhotep the Visionary - Flammable, Frantic Fervour, Master Artisan, Frenzy, Stone Shaper, Wrath of the Creator, and Hatred. Has HW, Whip, and LA.

Tomb King wrote:Couple of questions:

So your telling me arkhan can fly acroos the board and unleash purple sun all the way across their battle line? Wow I feel like an ass already!

Light spell timewarp. Doubles movement. I see above that it says they cant march for any reason. Would it still be allowed? As it isnt marching it is just doubling their movement, which would allow them to re-double if they could march. This can be quite the combination for a death start type army.

Amaya wrote:

Tomb King wrote:Couple of questions:

So your telling me arkhan can fly acroos the board and unleash purple sun all the way across their battle line? Wow I feel like an ass already!

Light spell timewarp. Doubles movement. I see above that it says they cant march for any reason. Would it still be allowed? As it isnt marching it is just doubling their movement, which would allow them to re-double if they could march. This can be quite the combination for a death start type army.

That could be brutal. Double their movement and then hit them with the spell that allows them to move again. Chariots move 28" in a turn?!

Amaya wrote:

vitki wrote:I'm going to glue them to the backs of live goliath beetles. Everything the knock over is a kill for me!

I want to see them riding huge skeleton lions.

Wehrkind wrote:

Amaya wrote:

vitki wrote:I'm going to glue them to the backs of live goliath beetles. Everything the knock over is a kill for me!

I want to see them riding huge skeleton lions.

Three posts, three better ideas than "Surfing on skeleton snakes!"

Seriously GW, what were you smoking?

Ixquic wrote:
Wut? I'm not going to debate the quality of GW's recent models (even ones that people don't dig like the Dreadknight look good from a technical standpoint) but calling them low priced is absurd.

For instance these models will run you a little over $40 for the lot of ten. Compare that to this model being $12.95 for one and it looks terrible. The tiny bit of metal does not justify the much higher price.

Price alone isn't the issue. With 8th edition huge units are highly encouraged and the price for the models is really adding up. Combine that with older models being repackaged to have a higher price per model and new plastics being more expensive based on replacing equal value metal models (such as Phoenix Guard and Tomb Guard) and it's hard to see the game as "low priced." Saying you can just play 500 point games is silly since the game isn't popular at that level (people actively turn that down at stores when asked). It's like saying Warmachine can be enjoyed with just the starter boxes when no one plays that way.

spaceelf wrote:
Fantasy is losing market share. This is even evident in GW stores, which is rather ironic.

spaceelf wrote:
Other companies stuff is much cheaper than GW. The detail varies, but there is some really good stuff that is much cheaper than GW. Just check out Perry Brothers, or Brigade Games. 1.50 USD or less for a highly detailed plastic miniature is reasonable. Although GWs kits come with some options, they rarely come with all of the options you want in the game.

spaceelf wrote:
Small point Fantasy games do not work as well as small point 40k games. Having two blocks of troops and a general is just not that entertaining. If you avoid taking models with enough wounds, then you will get rolled in Fantasy, even in a casual setting. The skeleton horsemen and chariots do not seem particularly playable.

Ixquic wrote:
You do have a point. Some of GWs models are very expensive. I also must congratulate you for finding one of the largest discrepancies you possible could have between the two product lines. Maybe you could compare the mantic cavalry to this instead. You will find that these GW undead cavalry actually cost less per model than the mantic ones.

Maybe I worded my last post poorly. The better way to phrase what I want to say would be something like: GW models have the best value for their price when you consider their quality, versatility, and the sheer amount of stuff you get in a box; particularly when put into the context of building an army for playing WHFB.

Yes, there are discount sights. The models might look cheaper at first. In some cases they will be cheaper in the end as well. Take the orcs on mantic for example. $1.29 per model. Lets say you want them to be equipped with great weapons, or halberds, or extra hand weapons. Figure out how much it will cost for those bits, if you can even find them.

-Jim

Ixquic wrote:
I pointed out an example since it was one I ran into when I wanted to put together some Black Knights and it ended up being cheaper to bitz order metal parts (before that went away) and add them to other plastic models. If you want to compare 8 models for $35 bucks versus 10 models for $45 that aren't really interchangeable (since one is a barded steed with knight and the other is a naked skeleton on a naked horse) that's cool but obviously disingenuous. I will admit the older GW plastic cavalry are still at a decent price for now (Brettonians and Empire included). Either way you found an example where GW MAYBE (depending on exchange rates) beats them out for 15 cents while in mine it was a almost 3 to 1 ratio. See if I wanted to I could compare the new Tomb Guard which is a little more than $4 a model to Mantic's elite undead unit which is about $1.30 a model. A more apt comparison would be between Grave Guard and The Revenants but even then Grave Guard is $3.3 a model.

I know some people here really love extra bits but you really don't get that much. With ghouls you end up with some extra arms and stuff you'll never use. In the case of the new Grey Knights you don't get enough psycannons to fill out units if you are looking to do certain types of armies and you are forced to either find people to trade with or buy extra boxes. With skeletons you get a lot of extra heads but from more than two feet away they all look the same. While I appreciate the extra stuff when it's there it certainly isn't worth the incredible price hike.

I'm not sure why you care if Mantic orcs can use weapon load outs the game doesn't allow you to take. If you are playing Kings of War it certainly doesn't matter and if you are using Mantic models for Warhammer Fantasy you are already bared from an official GW tournament anyway so who cares if they have exactly what they are supposed to.

Overall if you feel the hobby is worth it to you, great I have no business telling people how to spend their money or have fun. When Sisters of Battle come out I still want to buy that army. However to come in and act like it isn't extraordinarily expensive (or that GW stuff is so amazing it is worth the high cost) is flat out wrong.

I feel bad with this derail that has nothing to do with Tomb Kings anymore so I'm personally done here.