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Xeno wrote:Personally, I want to see them show what the Germans look like with the backpack attached. That's the element that really adds the heavy infantry "bulk," I think.

That is going to be the 'make or break' it for me. Can't wait until all this stuff is out of the way and Tony can get to work on the hardsuits. Those are what I am really waiting for. --Loves Ma.K-- and those suits have such a good vibe going on with them.

According to their website the marines have ship and they also posted a road map of what's next:

May - Bugs

May/June - Germans

June - Marine Hardsuits

June/July - Female Marines

I hope they are able to keep such a tight schedule. I am looking forward to seeing these and seeing if this company manages to take off, which I hope it does.

Oh the link to the news post:

http://www.defiancegames.com/index.php/news

If their hurdles/delays with the UAMC were a one time thing that's been squared away, then I think they can do it (as the design team could simply have moved on to working on the next kits during the delays).

Hmm call me skeptical but without actual production shots of the Hardsuits/Female marines then I think they might not be ready for June/July.

I mean people like Perry, Warlord, heck even good ol WGF show their stuff months ahead of time.

I could be very wrong though and they just have chosen not to show them.

These are really pretty nice. I am liking the neo-modernesque swat team look. These would make some great Adeptus Arbeties (sp?).

My order came in today, and I must say they look really good. Unfortunately I have to go to work but when I get back tonight I'll put some pics up of the sprues, the unit's rules card (looks really cool btw) as well as anything else people want to see

Rules card? They've already got rules going on? I'm interested.

Brother SRM wrote:Rules card? They've already got rules going on? I'm interested.

While the proper PDF version hasn't been made available yet, Howard Whitehouse has been emailing the WIP version out to anyone who asks. See this thread.

AlexHolker wrote:
While the proper PDF version hasn't been made available yet, Howard Whitehouse has been emailing the WIP version out to anyone who asks. See this thread.

Awesome, thanks!

I just got mine today! They threw an extra sprue of marines in my box. I did not get my Gunny though. I got a sheet saying he leads from the rear and would be mailed separately.

The rules card is sweet and contains the points value and squad organization style as well as a cool WTF!?! table on the backside of the card that has random events that can happen during the game.

The sprues are great! The "bits" are packed nicely on the sprue and really use the space well with little wasted space.

They fit perfectly in the box. So perfect that my extra sprue wont fit in with the rest of the minis.

The only complaint I have is with the absent Gunny. He leads from the rear? That's a sad Gunny that is very undeserving of the rank. That's the kinda guy that catches a grenade while he is in the head.

I will post pics as I start working on them. Still not sure on a paint scheme yet. Either woodland, urban or winter night.

Received my marines today in the mail.nice work, nice details. i'm happy that there will be extra parts that i can use for my IG and vice versa. Can't wait for the panzergrenadiers to come out. i'll try to post pics of my sprues and wip marines.

Pics will be up sometime tomorrow, as I'm currently assembling several different combos to show off all the parts you get as well as some cool kitbashing with IG stuff, but I can tell you one thing right now.

Putting a catachan head and torso on a DFG marines legs and using their arms is one of the funniest looking models I've ever made. The guy's head looks like its some sort of bizzare watermellon head or something. I mean, yeah, the heads are big compared to even "normal" GW models, but compared to the slightly more realistic scale the dfg marines have, and it's friggin huge. However, just using the legs with cadian torsos looks awesome and I'll be using my spare 12 legs per box to build myself some vets for sure!

MrMoustaffa wrote:Pics will be up sometime tomorrow, as I'm currently assembling several different combos to show off all the parts you get as well as some cool kitbashing with IG stuff, but I can tell you one thing right now.

Putting a catachan head and torso on a DFG marines legs and using their arms is one of the funniest looking models I've ever made. The guy's head looks like its some sort of bizzare watermellon head or something. I mean, yeah, the heads are big compared to even "normal" GW models, but compared to the slightly more realistic scale the dfg marines have, and it's friggin huge. However, just using the legs with cadian torsos looks awesome and I'll be using my spare 12 legs per box to build myself some vets for sure!

I agree with the scale comparison 100%! These guys make cadians look HUGE! I am loving the more realistic proportions though. When I first opened them I was thinking they looked kinda small. After assembling some, however, they actually look perfect.

You could use the GW Cadian heads to make a bobblehead model with the Defiance marines!

Cant wait for the kitbashing pics. Your making me all excited MrMoustaffa. I have held off on ordering until I saw some of the possible combinations.

As far as scale goes, it's worth noting that ridiculous clown proportions for IG models are only a recent thing from GW, with the catachan and cadian plastics.

Before those were released, we had an excellent range of Perry-sculpted metals for 7 different Imperial Guard regiments that were much smaller in size and without the ridiculous proportions... they looked much better next to a space marine than the current lot do.

Just think of the stuff made by DFG and other companies to be a return to the good old days rather than "small" and you'll be fine. Really, guns the size of telegraph poles and pistols the size of a model's torso are what's out of place, as soon you have a think about that for a second, it all becomes a lot easier to deal with.

Don't put GW weapons on them without a little conversion work first! I saw a lot of people do that with the mantic corporation models and it looked downright terrible.

Looking forward to the hardsuits the most, really liking the design, and would love to pick some up to go with my mantic stuff... also, since it's not an organic sculpt, the digital sculpting will probably work out well.

Wonder how well the Defiance heads will go on Mantic Corporation bodies. Have you tried a comparison scarletsquig?

Also wondering if the Wargames Factory Shock Troop heads are too big for these guys, or the Mantic Corporation dudes. Reason I am wondering is I need a lot of helmeted dudes with gasmasks/goggles etc, but no idea what fits what miniatures.

Looking forward a lot to the German dudes, they should look great.

agree 100% with not putting GW weapons on them. The weapons are almost as big as they are.

If you are planning on using these guys for IG, use them as catachans, then buy a couple of the plastic catachan command squads. These are the closest GW comes in plastic to the scale the DFG marines use (although they still lok very buff, its not as extreme) some of the heads will even work on the marines. Obviously your guys will look slightly smaller than most IG players, but they'll still look good. the bits from the catachan box work pretty well for the marines as well, and I've been using them a lot to customize my marines.

The bases that DFG uses are the same size as the GW ones, so they'll work well for your base infantry. You can only tell a difference if you look at the bottom of the base.

Most of my kitbashing involves mixing catachan and marines bits, and I think they turned out well. Just need to finish a few more and the pics will start rolling in

EDIT: fenriswulf, I'll throw a couple of the WGF greatcoat trooper heads on and see. One thing I can say though is that detail on the marines blows the WGF greatcoats out of the water.

Yeah I had thought that would be the case. The problem I am going to have is I need a bucketload of the respirator style heads which look half decent, and I can't find a good alternate design for them from other miniature suppliers.

I had thought about trying my hand at sculpting something similar to the Djanbazan (sp?) miniatures from the Haqqislam line of infinity figures, but I don't think I am quite there yet in my sculpting skills.

Ok, there's a good amount of pics. I've spoilered all of them to make it easier on slower computers. I haven't had a chance to paint these guys yet. It's been raining nonstop but I should be able to prime a squad tomorrow and get started on them. Also, some pics didn't come out right. I'm not sure if it was the lighting in the room or the camara, but these are the best I can get for now. I'll give some of these another go tomorrow and edit in better pics if I get them. If you want pics of anything I didn't post here, or want to see certain combos (I have another 20 still unassembled) PM me and I'll see what I can do. Anyways, enough jibber jabber, lets get to the pics.

First up, the rules card that comes in every box. It's basically a codex entry, except it comes with the box, giving you basic stats as well as available loadouts for your marines, along with recommended squad sizes and fireteam makeups. A cool thing I noticed is that you can choose how "experienced" each soldier is. So you can either sink the points in and make a very tough veteran squad, or you can go light on the points, and bring 2 or 3 squads of green troops, who apparently have lower accuracy. Lends itself to a lot of flexibility which should keep the game interesting

On the back you have the "What the...????" tables. These special situations occur randomly throughout the game, and can be either awesome, or terrible, depending on what you roll. On the bottom, which I couldn't get a good pic of due to how it's placed on the card (stretched along the bottom) are some special rules for the marines.

No-one Left Behind: Marines will not willingly leave the battlefield without recovering all casualties, alive or dead.
Semper Fi!: Once per game the player may reroll one failed die roll to rally from being pinned down or to make an Assault test or a Nerve test.

Bad table

Good table

Next up, some size comparisons between various minis I had laying around. My camera phone was very fussy, and certain pictures just wouldn't come out how I wanted. These are the best I can get for now...

Two marines with a commissar

A terrible quality pic of a WGF greatcoat next to a DFG marine. The marines are much higher quality, and better proportioned. The WGF greatcoats are almost a head taller than them though

A comparison shot between a Cadian, a DFG marine, and a catachan

Now for some kitbashes. I found what works best are bits from the plastic catachan command squad. They're close enough in size to be roughly appropriate for the marines, and have gear that matches their look. Cadian equipment like grenade belts and knives are hit and miss, some look good, some look meh. Don't even bother putting the older catachan parts on them though, they are comically oversized and do not match the marines at all. However, backpacks from both ranges work well with the marines provided you're willing to fiddle with them

A veteran Sarge I made for my guard army using a spare set of the marine legs. They fit GW guardsmen really well and look pretty good.

Some pretty heavily kitbashed shotgun vets I made using parts I have laying around. Gun arms are from WGF greatcoats, torsos and heads are GW, and legs are DFG marines. Since you get an extra 12 legs per box, this was a no brainer to try and I have to say I really like the look both with cadian and catachan torsos.

This squad of DFG marines all have GW backpacks, aside from the SSW gunners and their assistants. They look really good provided you don't use the ones with giant swords.

Finally, a kitbashed Sgt. for my marines, using a head, torso, and various bits from the catachan command box

And for kicks and giggles, here's why you don't use regular catachan heads and WGF greatcoat heads on the marines

Thanks for the pictures. Those Catachan heads are way, way oversized.

I really like how the UAMC are holding rifles properly for once. They actually look like real soldiers.

frozenwastes wrote:Thanks for the pictures. Those Catachan heads are way, way oversized.

I really like how the UAMC are holding rifles properly for once. They actually look like real soldiers.

One thing that's hard to tell, is that in that pic I have of the 13 marine squad, you can get a really surprising amount of variation out of that one sprue. All those guys in the pic? They all have the same torso and head, just placed at different angles. You can also change the angles of their arms quite a bit, hence the guys holding their weapons at ease, reloading them, clearing jams, etc.

For example, every SSW machine gunner you see are using the same right arm. By mixing the left arms that I used, and fiddling with the angle, i have guys that appear to be running, guys firing, clearing jams, one guy firing his GL, etc. Granted, there's only so much you can do with 5 different weapon arms, but that's what kitbashing is for

I love it. I wasn't a big fan of the helmet design, but those patrol caps have me sold. I'll probably pick up a set just because-- if Defiance keeps putting stuff of this quality level, I may become a repeat customer!

Thanks MrMoustaffa!

Now I know I won't be able to use the WGF heads, it saves me from spending money when I don't need to.

And some of the head/body mixes you have come up with are hilarious

I like Sergeant Macrocephaly! I want to see somebody making Chibi Guard...

Really shows the difference in scale. Thanks for the pictures.

When I finally get my Tau finished I am going to have to use these guys for my guard. Seeing them assembled is awesome and I think they put Cadians to shame.

MrMoustaffa great minds think alike

I've purchased 4 boxes from Defiance and I'm equipping all of my marines with the soft cap instead of the helmet and I love how there turning out.

in the end I'll have a platoon of 48 marines with the soft hats and then probably 48 with the respirator helmets

hope the rules for this game are decent

These rules look interesting, and while I haven't read the playtest rules yet I really like the inclusion of rules in every box. It makes updating armies with new units very easy if that's the route they continue to take. Thanks for all the comparison pictures!

yeah the heads difference was crazy when I first tried it. It's not that the DFG marines are tiny (theyre the same height as a cadian) its that the more realistic proportions make them look skinnier, especially the legs. A cadian helmet head and a marine helmet are roughly the same size, but I don't know why you'd ever want to put a cadian head on these guys

The main problem is that all the catachan sculpts except the command box are rediculously big (they dwarf spess mehreens) And as the picture above shows, it makes kitbashing them.... difficult to say the least. I may try putting a pair of catachan arms on a marine though just to see how funny it is.

That said, if you've got mostly cadian bits or the catachan command box, kitbashing is quite easy between the two, and many of my marines are sporting grenades and other misc. kit from the gw boxes (basically anything that isnt a sword, has a skull on it, or the eagle emblem)

I really like this kit, and if you're on the fence, get a box. The quality is great for the price, and the box gives you enough marines for roughly two squads, so you'll be able to start playing the game the moment the rules come out.

The rules themselves aren't included in the box, though they will be free on the site. What came with the box is a force sheet with the force composition, point cost, and special rules on one side and the special event tables on the other.

Here's a quick explanation of the rules:

At the start of each round you roll a d6 againt an activation chart based on the type of communication and squad training (professional or non). The role determines how many "elements" you move, where "element" is a discrete unit of soldiers; you can change element size on the fly. Normally, this is "Move (x) elements + any element lead by a 'leader'," where any non-com or officer counts as a leader. This makes leaders very important, obviously, an highly professional forces like the USMC and Germans become very flexible in that regard. If you roll a 6 you get a special event (a.k.a. "What The . . .?!), where you only move one element, then role to see if the event is Good, Bad, or Other. The first two are generally force dependent, while the Other category is for environmental or scenario dependent effect.

As a side note, there are effects that can temporarily or permanently lower a squad's communication type; partly, this is because the game assumes that there is electronic warfare and such going on in the background interfering with command and control.

Shooting is a matter of rolling vs the element's Combat Value (CV, usually 2-4, the higher the better) vs a chart, rolling a number of dice based on the weapons being used (the default assault rifle rolls 2 dice at relatively close range and 1 die beyond, while the Squad Support Weapon rolls a variable number based on whether you moved or spent an action setting up the weapon). Any hits are then resolved based on the hit soldier's level of experience and armor worn vs the weapon being used (specifically, it's "Impact" value). The game assumes that more experience soldiers are better are taking advantage of cover, reducing their profile, and reacting to incoming. Soldiers who are Wounded or Out of Action can be treated by a Medic, plus they must make a CV check on the next "What The" role (their side or the enemies) to see if their condition improves, stabilizes, or worsens). Out of Action soldiers are likely to die unless treated by a Medic. Wounded soldiers act at reduced effectiveness.

Winning the game means earning Victory Points for achieving objectives. You LOSE Victory Points if your soldiers die or you are driven from the battlefield and leave them behind; treating your wounded is important in this game since no human force sees their soldiers as being disposable cannon fodder (or, at least, the soldiers themselves certainly don't!). One of the advantages the Bugs have is that they don't care about their wounded (and usually just eat them, anyway); added to them having a Hive Mind and usually always acting makes for a relentless, attack-based force. Plus, Bugs aren't all that fragile -- they are armored as well as Marine, fight at CV 4, and hit hard in close combat.

Unfortunately, I can't personally tell you how well the rules play since I haven't had much time for wargaming lately. The other playtesters (a couple of whom have posted here) could tell you more.