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Sure, that's one way to look at it.
On the other hand, they just updated Forge World stuff in a GW publication. No more waiting 9 years for a revised FW book.

 quickfuze wrote:
So after looking that over, it looks like GW just arbitrarily said FETH Forge World. Which is nothing more than a blatant cash grab for them. Yes I know they are the same parent company, but they maintain separate balance and asset sheets. By making the FW stuff essentially unplayable, you will buy GW proper models. Why again should I listen to point adjustments from a company when it is obvious what they are doing?

It seems more like they're trying to discourage people from using super heavy FW units in 2000pts or less games.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
So after looking that over, it looks like GW just arbitrarily said FETH Forge World. Which is nothing more than a blatant cash grab for them. Yes I know they are the same parent company, but they maintain separate balance and asset sheets. By making the FW stuff essentially unplayable, you will buy GW proper models. Why again should I listen to point adjustments from a company when it is obvious what they are doing?

It seems more like they're trying to discourage people from using super heavy FW units in 2000pts or less games.

Yeah I mean they are completely unbalancing, winning top table at all the major......Oh wait....no they arent.

 quickfuze wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
So after looking that over, it looks like GW just arbitrarily said FETH Forge World. Which is nothing more than a blatant cash grab for them. Yes I know they are the same parent company, but they maintain separate balance and asset sheets. By making the FW stuff essentially unplayable, you will buy GW proper models. Why again should I listen to point adjustments from a company when it is obvious what they are doing?

It seems more like they're trying to discourage people from using super heavy FW units in 2000pts or less games.

Yeah I mean they are completely unbalancing, winning top table at all the major......Oh wait....no they arent.

Weren't the ITC organizers raising stink about banning power level 32+ or something? Maybe it was to just price that stuff out and moot the need.

 quickfuze wrote:
So after looking that over, it looks like GW just arbitrarily said FETH Forge World. Which is nothing more than a blatant cash grab for them. Yes I know they are the same parent company, but they maintain separate balance and asset sheets. By making the FW stuff essentially unplayable, you will buy GW proper models. Why again should I listen to point adjustments from a company when it is obvious what they are doing?

OR, and hear me out, Forgeworld screwed up their point balancing so bad that most tournaments were having a hard time justifying letting FW in anymore and this was a necessary if heavy-handed change.

And for the other thing, Superchicken almost never finished outside the top 10 and the other FW superheavies were banned in most ITC events to pre-empt how stupidly undercosted some of the titan class models were.

ERJAK wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
So after looking that over, it looks like GW just arbitrarily said FETH Forge World. Which is nothing more than a blatant cash grab for them. Yes I know they are the same parent company, but they maintain separate balance and asset sheets. By making the FW stuff essentially unplayable, you will buy GW proper models. Why again should I listen to point adjustments from a company when it is obvious what they are doing?

OR, and hear me out, Forgeworld screwed up their point balancing so bad that most tournaments were having a hard time justifying letting FW in anymore and this was a necessary if heavy-handed change.

And for the other thing, Superchicken almost never finished outside the top 10 and the other FW superheavies were banned in most ITC events to pre-empt how stupidly undercosted some of the titan class models were.

And that warranted a 115% increase for him? Come one, you have to admit that there is a difference between balancing some units out and versus making units COMPLETELY unplayable. I mean it is pretty evident across ALL the FW entries.

Power level 32 is oddly specific, and yet I've seen it mentioned a few times. Is there some particular unit that falls just above or just below that that's the reason?

Originally time warp greater brass scorpion was just busted but fw nerfed it.

 quickfuze wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
So after looking that over, it looks like GW just arbitrarily said FETH Forge World. Which is nothing more than a blatant cash grab for them. Yes I know they are the same parent company, but they maintain separate balance and asset sheets. By making the FW stuff essentially unplayable, you will buy GW proper models. Why again should I listen to point adjustments from a company when it is obvious what they are doing?

OR, and hear me out, Forgeworld screwed up their point balancing so bad that most tournaments were having a hard time justifying letting FW in anymore and this was a necessary if heavy-handed change.

And for the other thing, Superchicken almost never finished outside the top 10 and the other FW superheavies were banned in most ITC events to pre-empt how stupidly undercosted some of the titan class models were.

And that warranted a 115% increase for him? Come one, you have to admit that there is a difference between balancing some units out and versus making units COMPLETELY unplayable. I mean it is pretty evident across ALL the FW entries.

It makes sense if you look at it from the perspective that GW are intending them to only be played in Narritive or Open games. Titan level models certainly always felt to me that they should have scenarios built around them and be a major feature of a game rather than just included on its own with like 20 other guys. Like why would a warhound titan be deployed for a minor skirmish?

I bet there will be new rules for matched play that clarify that larger models are meant for Apocalypse / Open / Narrative play. Interesting to me that they might be walking back their 7th Ed. philosophy of anything goes. I guess we'll know very shortly.

 Cream Tea wrote:
Power level 32 is oddly specific, and yet I've seen it mentioned a few times. Is there some particular unit that falls just above or just below that that's the reason?

Most expensive baneblade was formerly 31, then you have some of the Land Raider superheavy and one of the heavy flyers in that 30/31 area too I believe.

FW superheavies that are comparable to Baneblades and Knights were hammered. Typhon and Cerebus up over 200pts. If superheavies based on the Spartan chassis were priced out of play, why isn’t the Spartan itself or codex superheavies which sport similar stats left alone?

WatcherZero wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:
Power level 32 is oddly specific, and yet I've seen it mentioned a few times. Is there some particular unit that falls just above or just below that that's the reason?

Most expensive baneblade was formerly 31, then you have some of the Land Raider superheavy and one of the heavy flyers in that 30/31 area too I believe.

All right, so they wanted to keep the baneblades and decided on a limit with that in mind. Makes sense, whether you agree or not. Thanks!

Also notice they didnt touch their shiny new Primaris Superheavy Hover tank......they havent milked enough people on that one yet. Plus they want you buying those new Primaris Marines.

 quickfuze wrote:
So after looking that over, it looks like GW just arbitrarily said FETH Forge World. Which is nothing more than a blatant cash grab for them. Yes I know they are the same parent company, but they maintain separate balance and asset sheets. By making the FW stuff essentially unplayable, you will buy GW proper models. Why again should I listen to point adjustments from a company when it is obvious what they are doing?

I've now seen it all. Thanks for the laughs Dakka.

Squiggoths got 50pts cheaper.


Best.


Also Gorkanauts down 53pts.


Even beterer.

 quickfuze wrote:
Also notice they didnt touch their shiny new Primaris Superheavy Hover tank......they havent milked enough people on that one yet. Plus they want you buying those new Primaris Marines.

The rules for that tank are awfull. He doesn't needs to me made more expensive. Nobody is gonna use it with his current price and rules.

 Galas wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
Also notice they didnt touch their shiny new Primaris Superheavy Hover tank......they havent milked enough people on that one yet. Plus they want you buying those new Primaris Marines.

The rules for that tank are awfull. He doesn't needs to me made more expensive. Nobody is gonna use it with his current price and rules.

The official, finalized rules for it also aren't out yet.

 Galas wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
Also notice they didnt touch their shiny new Primaris Superheavy Hover tank......they havent milked enough people on that one yet. Plus they want you buying those new Primaris Marines.

The rules for that tank are awfull. He doesn't needs to me made more expensive. Nobody is gonna use it with his current price and rules.

Explain please. The main gun is comparable, giving up a little AP for a guaranteed 12 shots and 1 more damage. It has 2 less wounds and 1 less toughness in exchange for voidshields.

 quickfuze wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
Also notice they didnt touch their shiny new Primaris Superheavy Hover tank......they havent milked enough people on that one yet. Plus they want you buying those new Primaris Marines.

The rules for that tank are awfull. He doesn't needs to me made more expensive. Nobody is gonna use it with his current price and rules.

Explain please. The main gun is comparable, giving up a little AP for a guaranteed 12 shots and 1 more damage. It has 2 less wounds and 1 less toughness in exchange for voidshields.

Compare it to a baneblade and you will see why its really lackluster.

Comparing the primaris Psyker to the malefic lord really makes it feel like smite spam is only okay if you're imperium.

6 points. 6 effing points. What a joke.

I'm really forced to wonder...looking at the leaks, at least for CSM's and IG, who on earth did they have looking at these and deciding on changes?

There's a couple minor nerfs to power units like the Manticore, Astropath and Primaris Psyker, oh well there, but we needed *meltaguns* to go up? Really?

No help for the Forgefiend? A 12pt discount isn't going to help the Defiler. Armageddon Pattern Medusa's needed a nerf? Earthshaker platforms are now *more* expensive than their more resilient, mobile, and Ld-immune tracked Basilisk counterparts (a minor increase was expected, this is asinine)? A minor 5pt price break on the Vanquisher but otherwise leaving it vastly outmatched in actual tank hunting ability by the basic Battlecannon? Nothing for the undergunned Exterminator? We're nefing Ratlings now...? Not sure what the purpose of Conscripts is if they're the same price as Guardsmen...I really don't think someone thought that through.

Looks like pretty classic GW "jiggle random points values of stuff we picked by throwing darts at a board" methodology

If this is the great Living Ruleset of 8E, I'm not impressed. But I'm also not surprised.






EDIT: Jesus they didn't even bother to Errata the base cost of the Leman Russ variants like the Annihilator from the Index to the Codex cost it looks like...

.... the Taunar is 1500 base now. Fought it twice and isn't seen THAT bad. Some of these changes seem not needed.

By the way, any news about the missing datasheets promised long ago
with the Xenos index faq?



Q: There are no datasheets for Firestorms, Great Knarloc,
Knarloc Riders, Mega-dreads, Battlefortresses or Grot Bomb
Launchers – are there datasheets I should use for these models?
A: Datasheets for these models will be published on the
Forge World and Warhammer Community websites.


Still missing points for battlefortresses, gunwagonz, grot launchas batteries etc...

 quickfuze wrote:
Also notice they didnt touch their shiny new Primaris Superheavy Hover tank......they havent milked enough people on that one yet. Plus they want you buying those new Primaris Marines.

You mean the thing they just put points on? Like a week ago? Well after this book went to print?

So, horrors went down in price, conscripts went up to infantry price. Malific lords went way up but Fire raptors went down. Revenant Titan went through the roof for some reason. I’m really not seeing the point of a lot of these changes. It’s like a drunken monkey was left alone with a keyboard and just went to town

Daedalus81 wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
Also notice they didnt touch their shiny new Primaris Superheavy Hover tank......they havent milked enough people on that one yet. Plus they want you buying those new Primaris Marines.

You mean the thing they just put points on? Like a week ago? Well after this book went to print?

No no no. They did that so they could support their evil corporate scheme of shooting themselves in the foot. You know, why would a company want to make money anyway?

war wrote:
So, horrors went down in price, conscripts went up to infantry price. Malific lords went way up but Fire raptors went down. Revenant Titan went through the roof for some reason. I’m really not seeing the point of a lot of these changes. It’s like a drunken monkey was left alone with a keyboard and just went to town

Pinks went down...to promote using them. The others stayed the same.

Conscripts went up, because in some areas they were still a problem in the big picture of how the army operates.

This doesn't preclude these things from changing up or down in the future, either.

Pinks won't be used unless their shooting is buffed. Frankly all three horror varieties are worthless an anything but a body, so obviously the cheapest body will be the best.

 Mousemuffins wrote:
Squiggoths got 50pts cheaper.


Best.


Also Gorkanauts down 53pts.


Even beterer.

Unless I'm miscalculating, how did the Gorkanaut go down by 53 points? The Gorkanaut only went down by 8 points due to the decrease of twin big shootas while the Morkanaut went down by 34 points thanks to the reduction of the kustom mega kannon, twin big shootas, and the mork itself.