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Red Corsair wrote: The jackal Alphus buffs bike 12" and has a 14" base move. You would need to be a poor planner to not get her in range of some bikes.
As to summoning, yes you can do it turn 1. They are not set up in tactical reserve which is the rule that normally restricts units from deploying turn 1. The only stipulation is that in matched play you need to pay reinforcement points.
You don't see demon players use it often because in order to summon they need to inflict possible mortal wounds on the character doing the summoning, that character to cannot have moved that turn and also it has a 12" range from the summoner.
Those reasons make demon summoning much less viable and thus you don't see it done.
Daemon summoning rules also state "treat summoned units as arriving reinforcements" meaning turn 1 summoning can only put units in your deployment zone. Its essentially standard deepstrike that might fail and might damage characters and you can't do turn 1 bombs that might offset the risks. TBH i see the summoning strategem getting that rule to lower the turn 1 shenanigans GW is so keen on stopping.
Red Corsair wrote: The jackal Alphus buffs bike 12" and has a 14" base move. You would need to be a poor planner to not get her in range of some bikes.
As to summoning, yes you can do it turn 1. They are not set up in tactical reserve which is the rule that normally restricts units from deploying turn 1. The only stipulation is that in matched play you need to pay reinforcement points.
You don't see demon players use it often because in order to summon they need to inflict possible mortal wounds on the character doing the summoning, that character to cannot have moved that turn and also it has a 12" range from the summoner.
Those reasons make demon summoning much less viable and thus you don't see it done.
Daemon summoning rules also state "treat summoned units as arriving reinforcements" meaning turn 1 summoning can only put units in your deployment zone. Its essentially standard deepstrike that might fail and might damage characters and you can't do turn 1 bombs that might offset the risks. TBH i see the summoning strategem getting that rule to lower the turn 1 shenanigans GW is so keen on stopping.
Except that the "Your Deployment zone only" rule doesn't exist anymore, not even in beta form.
Correct, it works and is a very useful trick though I wouldn't pour more then 120ish points into it.
Has anyone considered spamming trucks full of neophytes.
128 points for a truck + squad with 2 stubbers and two webbers seems solid. I have been dabbling with the idea of making a solid gunline with cheap bodies and lots of armor. I know trucks haven't been discussed favorably so far, but 72pts for an open topped vehicle with all it's gun sdoesn't seem bad. My dark eldar grab a venom with 5 warriors and a blaster for 127, and those are solid. While the BS and saves are worse your basically doubling the shots and wounds on both transport and occupants. Could run an alphus or two along with them.
If I swap guns on my grinders I can do 6, I'll have to give it a go at some point here.
Well I think trucks are kinda cheap and punchy enough to be a option. Although I favour shotguns with those and I am thinking about giving acolytes a run with that.
But what about Sentinels and Ridgerunners? Anyone else wondering about those as there is few things those could be used for.
Has anyone considered spamming trucks full of neophytes.
Yes. Most of my index lists consisted of 4 trucks of Neophytes, 2 trucks with demo Acolytes, and a trio of Rockgrinders as a starting point. One or two may die each turn, but they excel at pinning the opponent in their deployment zone and counter-act the usual issue with mass anti-infantry firepower. Taken en-mass they also aren't too bad against dedicated anti-tank, as every wound saved with rugged construction is one more shot the foe needs to make. Often by turn 3 or so I'd have a few destroyed trucks and a few mangled, but the foe was trapped in their own deployment area and I would be holding all the objectives.
I'm currently thinking of the following for an all-mech list.
(Note that this is a very heavy skew list, not necessarily a TAC one)
Total (so far): 1790 points - 210 points left for customization. 14 CP
I'd probably run this as Hive Cult. Give one of the Jackals the Gift From Beyond sniper rifle and use them to try to get Chilling Efficiency running each turn. At that point, all units within range of an Alphus (which should be everything) will be looking at +2 to their hit rolls against the key target (Knight, Primarch, Tank Commander, etc.), so a ballistic skill of 2+ if stationary or a 3+ on the move with potential reroll 1's to-hit from the warlord. Long-range chaff removal should not be too large a concern with all the Heavy Stubbers (22 total) paired with the accuracy improvements, so I focused more on anti-armor weaponry. Both battalions are well set up to run as Deliverance Broodsurge detachments with an Iconward to take the relic and/or the field commander trait if desired. The Acolytes being broken into MSUs allows the truck squads to throw 3 demolition charges each turn without needing to spend command points on the extra explosives stratagem. Such squads still work well enough for bullying other troops in melee, so they still have utility once their payload is delivered or their ride is wrecked. Could also exchange the Acolyte demo squads and caches for a more balanced approach of Neophytes and melee-centric Acolytes. I just loved my drive-by demo squads in the index and wanted to see if I could get a close approximation.
With the points left over I'm probably going to look towards bulking out my infantry to take advantage of the trait. Could possibly convert the third detachment into a battalion by adding a Magus and shuffling around some points to get three shotgun Neophyte squads for screening. Alternatively there are sufficient points for a pair of Rockgrinders, an Aberrant squad, two 10-strong Acolyte Squads for ambushing, or perhaps a few Jackal units (I think should be able to squeeze in 3-4 basic squads with demolition charges).
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2019/02/23 21:10:52
Odrankt wrote: Seeing as GSC genestealers don't get any Cult benefits due to "Genestealers" keyword, is there any point bringing them over Nid Genestealers?
GSC genestealers are 15ppm, Elites, don't have any cult benefits, no useful Stratgems can be used on them .
Nid genestealers are 12ppm, Troops, have hive mind benefits, can use a good few stratagems from the nid codex.
You can pretty much garantee a charge anywhere on the board turn 2 or 3. 20 stealers, in your grill, showing you that rending was not just a keyword in the old rulebooks.
The difference is that you can buff GSC genestealers to pretty obscene levels while Tyranid genestealers are mostly on their own. You can’t compare them in a vacuum when the GSC version has The First Curse with its assorted buffs plus all the character/warlord/psychic buffs.
Odrankt wrote: Seeing as GSC genestealers don't get any Cult benefits due to "Genestealers" keyword, is there any point bringing them over Nid Genestealers?
GSC genestealers are 15ppm, Elites, don't have any cult benefits, no useful Stratgems can be used on them .
Nid genestealers are 12ppm, Troops, have hive mind benefits, can use a good few stratagems from the nid codex.
GSC Purestrain Genestealers benefit from Cult Ambush and Unquestioning Loyalty.
Badablack wrote: The difference is that you can buff GSC genestealers to pretty obscene levels while Tyranid genestealers are mostly on their own. You can’t compare them in a vacuum when the GSC version has The First Curse with its assorted buffs plus all the character/warlord/psychic buffs.
How are your buffing your GSC genestealers? There isn't much in the codex that buffs them besides the Characters? Also, TFC is pretty unreliable as it's D3 random powers and on a 5-6 you swap advance + charge for 4++. I don't think TFC is a good Stratgem tbh. Rolling a 3-4 gives you the best ability (+1 advance + charge) but it's a 1/3 chance of happening and not sure if it's worth a 1cp re-roll. Making TFC a 2CP gem if it doesn't work out during the 1st roll
Odrankt wrote: Seeing as GSC genestealers don't get any Cult benefits due to "Genestealers" keyword, is there any point bringing them over Nid Genestealers?
GSC genestealers are 15ppm, Elites, don't have any cult benefits, no useful Stratgems can be used on them .
Nid genestealers are 12ppm, Troops, have hive mind benefits, can use a good few stratagems from the nid codex.
GSC Purestrain Genestealers benefit from Cult Ambush and Unquestioning Loyalty.
Is that really a worthy trade off when your probably running Kraken nid Stealers? Not trying to cause any arguments with anyone but we might as well figure out which Genestealers version is the better one to run interms of their power, support and what they provide for us.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/23 00:58:31
How are most GSC players planning on dealing with a flyer heavy list? Most of the lists I have seen don’t factor them in as a threat (which is pretty serious, since they can block movement and turn our chances to hit into pathetic odds.)
The best I have come up with is to ally in a heavy amount of psykers, to mortal wound them out of the sky. The second best is to ally in a bunch of biovores and/or spore mines.
Anyone else have concerns about flyer heavy lists?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/23 04:50:01
Jrandom wrote: How are most GSC players planning on dealing with a flyer heavy list? Most of the lists I have seen don’t factor them in as a threat (which is pretty serious, since they can block movement and turn our chances to hit into pathetic odds.)
The best I have come up with is to ally in a heavy amount of psykers, to mortal wound them out of the sky. The second best is to ally in a bunch of biovores and/or spore mines.
Anyone else have concerns about flyer heavy lists?
if you can get close enough an acolyte blob with hand flamers can land 10-20d6 autohits
jumping acolytes in to roast them, blowing them up in the psychic phase with Mental Onslaught, Goliath Incinerators, maybe sniping them, as I think a Sanctus sniping a hemlock could be worth a shot., despite it being a tough shot,
Flooding the board with bodies so they have nowhere to go is a favourite too.
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
SHUPPET wrote: You can run Kraken Stealers, and Purestrains both in the same list, they work well together as balls to the wall offense.
Then this happens: kraken genestealers die first turn and GSC 'ambushes' in next in line, to late to the party.
Why do players always assume kraken genestealers 'get in close combat' turn 2? They die before that happens..
SHUPPET wrote: You can run Kraken Stealers, and Purestrains both in the same list, they work well together as balls to the wall offense.
Then this happens: kraken genestealers die first turn and GSC 'ambushes' in next in line, to late to the party. Why do players always assume kraken genestealers 'get in close combat' turn 2? They die before that happens..
Hmmm however do top players make it work then?
If you play poorly, or you run into a poor match-up, maybe they won't make it to combat turn 2 - thats absolutely okay. But a lot of the time you can wrap something up midfield, or they can just deploy more carefully and hang around a Malanthrope, get Catalysted, chill out of LoS on busier boards especially if your squad is around only 15. There is a middle ground between "never being able to make it to combat" and "blindly shoving 240 pts of claws up the middle of the board turn 1 like you're a Khorne player".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/23 10:53:19
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Played two 1000pts games yesterday, and these are my notes/observations so far:
I can confirm we are a command point hungry army. Anything less than a double battalion is going to hamstring the cannon part of the glass cannon as you absolutely cannot make the most of cult ambush without the stratagems.
Speaking of cult ambush, you really need to plan ahead which unit or units you are going to build your ambush around. You will not be able to ambush everything into charge/shoot range that you want to, and failing that 9" charge is devastating. Without the old index cult ambush table and sympathy beta stratagems they gave us, it's far more unreliable to bring half your army in via reserves.
Genestealers are feeling like a points sink and I don't think I will be including them in my final 2000pt list. Unless you are buffing them with MFB, a patriarch, Mass Hypnosis, and Perfect Ambush, they are getting shredded before they start shredding. With all that support, you are looking at nearly a 500pt investment and 3 of your precious CP that is only effective on one part of the table, and I don't see them making it into a second combat unless you are up against a tightly packed formation they can consolidate into. I will continue to try to make them work in small point games, but for now I'd rather the increased mobility and durability of vehicles and bikes.
Speaking of bikes, MVPs of the day for me. With Rusted Claw, they are far more durable than I imagined they'd be. I ran one unit with the shotgun/demo charge loadout everyone is talking about. The Drive By strat is really fun, as I used it to evaporate a Raider, and then moved 14" out of LOS. With all the wounds, increased toughness, hard to hit, and buff from the Rusted Claw trait, they were useful to camp on objectives after delivering their payload. Surprisingly useful in CC against non CC infantry as they just grind down the opponent a model or two at a time. I plan on having a unit of 9 with cultist knives rush up the board turn 1 to start thinning lines.
I'm not seeing this as a horde army, and not buying into the 20 man Acolyte flamer blobs. Morale is going to be an issue once you exceed 10 models. My 5 man unit with flamers and CC mining weapons were a great tac unit to counter my opponent's own CC. Even at 8pts a model for the flamer option, it's just a waste to hold objectives with them (something you will eventually need to do) when they only have 6" range. 10 Neophytes with the +1 to save rolls from Rusted Claw sitting in cover on the other hand... That's Space Marine durability at a fraction of the cost. They soaked up a surprising amount of firepower and scored most of my VPs. Camping in a truck is even better as your opponent will have to decide between putting anti-armor firepower into a 72pt model or going after your artillery hammering him/her from the backfield. It was another solid choice and got me far closer to winning the game than those 15 genestealers did...
Even without genestealers the Patriarch is still worth an HQ slot. The fearless bubble is always useful, and you can buff him up with MFB and the biomorphic adaptation warlord trait. Tack on a familiar and Mental Onslaught and you are looking at a surprisingly useful anti-armor piece that is easy to screen/shield thanks to him being a character.
My last note is to echo what someone else said long ago in this thread. Do not try to Alpha or Beta strike. Play the long game. Establish board control early to force the enemy to move out of position, and bring in reinforcements a unit or two at a time to make counter attacks more difficult. Positioning is especially key as you will need to use cover and LOS to protect your assets. Foot slogging genestealers up the board Kraken style is not going to be effective with this army as you just don't match the durability and threat saturation of a full blown Tyranid army.
SHUPPET wrote: You can run Kraken Stealers, and Purestrains both in the same list, they work well together as balls to the wall offense.
Then this happens: kraken genestealers die first turn and GSC 'ambushes' in next in line, to late to the party.
Why do players always assume kraken genestealers 'get in close combat' turn 2? They die before that happens..
Hmmm however do top players make it work then?
If you play poorly, or you run into a poor match-up, maybe they won't make it to combat turn 2 - thats absolutely okay. But a lot of the time you can wrap something up midfield, or they can just deploy more carefully and hang around a Malanthrope, get Catalysted, chill out of LoS on busier boards especially if your squad is around only 15. There is a middle ground between "never being able to make it to combat" and "blindly shoving 240 pts of claws up the middle of the board turn 1 like you're a Khorne player".
If you can wrap something up mid field first turn then the opponent did something really wrong. You cannot afford to just chill out in the backfield in a game, that in most cases is decided at the end of turn 3. The game has changed with 'orks' and 'GSC' and if you think that 'top' players make it work then show me a list that works these days with walking Kraken genestealers.
The same goes for carnifex spam. 'point-wise' a great deal at the beginning until knights got tougher and the loota bomb showed its face.
SHUPPET wrote: You can run Kraken Stealers, and Purestrains both in the same list, they work well together as balls to the wall offense.
Then this happens: kraken genestealers die first turn and GSC 'ambushes' in next in line, to late to the party.
Why do players always assume kraken genestealers 'get in close combat' turn 2? They die before that happens..
Hmmm however do top players make it work then?
If you play poorly, or you run into a poor match-up, maybe they won't make it to combat turn 2 - thats absolutely okay. But a lot of the time you can wrap something up midfield, or they can just deploy more carefully and hang around a Malanthrope, get Catalysted, chill out of LoS on busier boards especially if your squad is around only 15. There is a middle ground between "never being able to make it to combat" and "blindly shoving 240 pts of claws up the middle of the board turn 1 like you're a Khorne player".
IDK, I haven't exactly seen many stealer shock armies dominating. They either win big or lose big based on opponents army, round number (early round inexperience) or terrain.
They do especially well on ITC magic box tables which is a bit artificial. If you don't grab that kind of table it's much harder.
If you hold your stealers for a turn you still haven't presented a way to cut down their screen as well. Each turn that cheap screen remains is less board control, which means your deepstrikes are going to fall flatter and flatter.
It's why I am already back to toying with swarms of gun toting neos and scouting vehicles. We lack orders (until the FAQ clarifies), but we have cult ambush and WAY more aura effects that make us distinct. Are neos can easily be made to have fearless, 6+++ , +1 strength, deny the witch, +1 BS, +1 WS, +1 adv and charge, reroll 1's to hit or wound. Then you add in the cult creed on a 5ppm squad that gets 4 upgrade weapons base per 10 models for dirt cheap. If BB happen to get orders it just seals it for me. Rusted claw neophyte anchor to deploy with said characters/auras and 80 shots for 80 points cult ambushing guardsmen after FRSR.
What do you do about elites targets? The same characters providing buffs is the answer. I'll take a patriarch/sanctus/locus backed by a mob of neophytes any day.
Fliers? Just ignore them, you have 200+ bodies. The best fliers currently lack AI guns.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/23 16:02:14
SHUPPET wrote: You can run Kraken Stealers, and Purestrains both in the same list, they work well together as balls to the wall offense.
Then this happens: kraken genestealers die first turn and GSC 'ambushes' in next in line, to late to the party. Why do players always assume kraken genestealers 'get in close combat' turn 2? They die before that happens..
Hmmm however do top players make it work then?
If you play poorly, or you run into a poor match-up, maybe they won't make it to combat turn 2 - thats absolutely okay. But a lot of the time you can wrap something up midfield, or they can just deploy more carefully and hang around a Malanthrope, get Catalysted, chill out of LoS on busier boards especially if your squad is around only 15. There is a middle ground between "never being able to make it to combat" and "blindly shoving 240 pts of claws up the middle of the board turn 1 like you're a Khorne player".
If you can wrap something up mid field first turn then the opponent did something really wrong. You cannot afford to just chill out in the backfield in a game, that in most cases is decided at the end of turn 3. The game has changed with 'orks' and 'GSC' and if you think that 'top' players make it work then show me a list that works these days with walking Kraken genestealers.
The same goes for carnifex spam. 'point-wise' a great deal at the beginning until knights got tougher and the loota bomb showed its face.
Yet somehow Matt Root got to #1 Tyranids player in the ITC, by doing just this. Hmmm. How did Cooper Waddell go undefeated at SoCal open with 15x Kraken Stealers + 15x Purestrains? How bout LGT where the only 2 Tyranid players to break top 16 both ran this too? This is the top of my head, you are talking about a proven strategy here that's gotten a lot of results, it seems insane to say Kraken stealers don't work.
This kind of hyperbole is a big problem with the community. So many people just write something off as "impractical" because you can't guarantee it every single game. If your opponent couldn't take any midfield ground in his first turn for fear of getting wrapped by a Stealer unit, that's a massive advantage vs a lot of armies. Many times they have to try contest it and do their best to deal with Stealers in another way. If you genuinely can't find a use for a single unit of Stealers in a Nids list, that's a you problem.
Red Corsair wrote: IDK, I haven't exactly seen many stealer shock armies dominating. They either win big or lose big based on opponents army, round number (early round inexperience) or terrain.
This isn't even remotely Stealershock, its the opposite. This is like 180 pts of Kraken Stealers we are talking about here, and/or some Purestrains. If anything Swarmlord + 2x Krakstealers is closer to something that you might call Stealershock because of the much higher investment into making that work, though even that is a stretch to call it Stealershock I think.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/23 16:53:57
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
it's not just 180 though. Your burning a detachment and paying for the other requirements. If you go patrol you spend less but gain zero CP and are down to 2 detachments to acquire all your CP. If you take a battalion, your now spending way more then 180. You can try to keep it cheap by taking rippers, but rippers do nothing for GSC since all our cheap stuff deepstrikes anyway. I wouldn't mind the broodlords honestly, but the patriarch is far better and again every time you take an outside detachment, that's one less patriarch you can field. So your not making much gain.
I'll keep posting it to, it does zero to help mitigate a screen for later reserves. 15 stealers aren't surviving mid table for 2 turns unless your opponent isn't concerned with them. You need swarmy to butcher a screen t1 going that route and I don't think it's worth the points or the risk of going second. Remember the kraken stuff can't be blipped so it's going to be effecting your other deployment tricks.
Yet somehow Matt Root got to #1 Tyranids player in the ITC, by doing just this. Hmmm. How did Cooper Waddell go undefeated at SoCal open with 15x Kraken Stealers + 15x Purestrains? How bout LGT where the only 2 Tyranid players to break top 16 both ran this too? This is the top of my head, you are talking about a proven strategy here that's gotten a lot of results, it seems insane to say Kraken stealers don't work.
These are old lists at a different time in a different setup. Cooper Waddell got a Swarmlord + genestealer combi with a purestrain + primus combi with the old GSC cult ambush rules. This is not an argument for GSC players to include kraken Genestealers because with the new cult ambush rules it's makes much more sense to use GSC units for mid-field domination. Also 'cooper' didn't have to deal with teleporting ork greentide + loota bomb. I played the Ork loota bomb and could kill 3 flying hive tyrants in one shooting turn. Different times man.
SHUPPET wrote: This kind of hyperbole is a big problem with the community. So many people just write something off as "impractical" because you can't guarantee it every single game. If your opponent couldn't take any midfield ground in his first turn for fear of getting wrapped by a Stealer unit, that's a massive advantage vs a lot of armies. Many times they have to try contest it and do their best to deal with Stealers in another way. If you genuinely can't find a use for a single unit of Stealers in a Nids list, that's a you problem.
A 'stay of my lawn' unit has his benefits but that doesn't win the game. If you want to make a case for kraken stealers from a GSC-player perspective then give my a list. This is about GSC tactic's so assume you are making a case for adding kraken Genestealers and not a full tyranid armylist.
I think there is no perfect answer for first turn screen clearing, because all the units have drawbacks.
Still I think that there is a list of what could work :
So I have been thinking what are our best first turn shanagins?
I can think of 3 are there more?
Summon 20 Neos with 2 GL/2H Stubbers @ 9.1" and fire away. Allows chaff clearing is a huge distraction and could nail first strike (likely to give first strike as well though).
Sanctus Perfect ambush sniper shot allows 2 shots (one during your or your opps movement phase) good vs psyker heavy armies for chain reaction perils. (even better with relic rifle)
Biker Demo rush if opp is foolish enough to set up something within 20". Use drive by demo and extra explosives to make his day then drive away.
What other tricks can we pull that other armies can't?
Each of these tactics are relatively cheap (110pts or less) and can have a big impact on the game.
Masutaman wrote: Catalyst says that it can be cast on a friendly tyranid unit within 18". The GSC units have the Tyranid Faction key word. Can a Neurothrope cast on Acolytes? This came up in my game yesterday.
No. This is from the Tyranid's FAQ:
Got to admit I read that as saying GSC units cannot use as in posses relics, cannot cast Nid powers themselves, cannot play a Nid Strategem. I did not read the FAQ to say that GSC units which have the Tyranid keyword can't benefit from powers/abilities etc which list the <tyranid> keyword. I assumed the FAQ's purpose was to make clear they are district armies and you can't just say your GSC has cult creed "kraken" and use Tyranid abilities/relics.
Im certain you are correct with your interpretation. GSC units without the FAQ statement would have the ability to take almost everything from the nid dex. They added in that statement to make sure that does not happen. However since we still have the <TYRANID> keyword you can cast powers on your GSC units. This same interaction is all over the Chaos codex's
On to another topic, I am starting GSC. I have come up with 3 lists (and more brewing). Tell me what you all think:
The Tyranid FAQ includes a bit that clarifies that every instance of "Tyranid" in the targeting rules for stratagems, warlord traits, and psychic powers should be read as "Tyranid unit with the <Hive Fleet> keyword", so none of their abilities will affect GSC units.
I like list #3 best personally. The Tyranid detachment in the first two is going to be very CP hungry between 'stealers and Hive Guard.
Strat_N8 wrote: The Tyranid FAQ includes a bit that clarifies that every instance of "Tyranid" in the targeting rules for stratagems, warlord traits, and psychic powers should be read as "Tyranid unit with the <Hive Fleet> keyword", so none of their abilities will affect GSC units.
They included the tyranid plus <hive fleet> thing because otherwise you could put GSC units in a mixed detatchment with nids and be battleforged. There is nothing indicating the targeting rules. This is what is said:
Genestealer Cults units therefore cannot make use of
any of the rules listed in this section.
If your interpretation is correct then a kraken neuralthrope can't buff non kraken units with powers. And I've seen on streams that happening. Not that streams are the pennical of rules following but that is a rather restrictive ruling that would be know by competitors.
However I agree the wording of the blurb you are referring to is not the best. I have an open topic in YMTC should be near the top still. Please put your argument there. Because this interaction is very important for me to know starting this army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/23 21:23:02
I'm referring to the paragraph directly before that part. "Add the following section before ‘Abilities’: ‘Tyranids Units: In the rules described in this section we often refer to ‘Tyranids units’. This is shorthand for any Tyranids unit that also has the <Hive Fleet> keyword. A Tyranids Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with both the Tyranids and <Hive Fleet> keyword. "
They put this in when the Tyranid codex first dropped to prevent people from borrowing Tyranid Warlord Traits or Relics, as prior to the FAQ it did work.
Nevermind, I see your argument. Disregard.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/23 21:33:09
