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Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

I think i like to have a good mix of unit types in my forces.Just seems a better fit for the story element.
Only played 750 point games so far in First Blood.Using Nords.Had a Blooded,Jarl,Huscarls,Raiders,Fenr and Trolls.
I think i will add Stalkers and another Raider unit to the force to expand it in the future.

   
Made in us
Clousseau




One thing that I hope gets some balance love is the Jarl's forces.

Playing with the blooded and the troll torpedos feels incredibly more powerful than the jarl and his viking forces... which is why I really only see the blooded troll torpedos in the wild which is a huge shame.

*caveat - narrative players that don't care about power will still do raider themed forces so it will depend in your group and what they want out of the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/18 17:52:25


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






My friend (who mostly plays trolls/blooded because blooded has the most released unit diversity and trolls are super important for the objective-holding game) says that when Ulfhednar/Bearsarks release it opens up both Jarls and Shamans enough for him to branch out.

A force of nothing but Raiders and Huskarls, which are mainstay, is not an exciting force by any measure.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




I think if Huscarls were jacked up in power you'd see them more. As they are now, they just don't compete with trolls.

My nord force is raiders, huscarls, bow chosen, steel chosen, and some giants. It is a lot of fun to run but in terms of power its about C+ at best, so it gets owned pretty hard against most of the lists I have had to face.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






Going back to how funny it is too see different people's views on what's good and what's not, Huscarls were recently increased in points because they were apparently one of the best units in the game.

At the same time, Trolls didn't see any increase in points or decrease in power.

edit: to be clear, I agree that huscarls aren't great especially after the points hike. I had just barely convinced my friend to give them a try on the basis that D4 after Bastion could be very strong. Then the points changed happened and he said "nope, absolutely not"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/18 18:28:14


I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




Huscarls baseline are RIGHT ON that blue line I video. They are like dead up what they should cost.

But the problem is... the other things like trolls are way below that line and there is no competition there. None at all.

The difference in total output you can get is very telling when you add all your units up and sum their output scores.

Thats the same problem in Sigmar. Units costed correctly are still garbage if you have units way below cost, because the things way below cost are going to be what competitive crowd is going to hone in on and spam.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

I think if they had done just two or three character types per force with the units to play them would have been a good idea.
It could then keep the game more balanced with the next release for each faction being a new character type and a couple of new units.
A unit type with the support rule might come in handy for the Nords.
Still need to play more games to get more of a feel for the force and the different rules.
With none of the Chosen released yet it makes it hard to take the characters that could take them like the Konungyr who needs them for his mainstay options.
Looking at the options for the Nords force builder it seems like the only two good options are the Blooded and Jarl for now.The other characters are waiting for units to be released to make them playable.This could be the reason for not seeing many different force builds for the Nords so far.

   
Made in us
Clousseau




Bow-chosen have been out for a bit. Though that was resin, and I heard they got pulled so maybe they don't exist today until their plastic version is out.

They just aren't overly amazing. They are functional but again when you compare them to trolls... there is no real comparison.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






Heck, Bow-chosen don't even compare to Stalkers, imho.

I think if they had done just two or three character types per force with the units to play them would have been a good idea.

This is basically how their releases have gone so far, unless you mean they shouldn't have even released stats for units outside of what they were planning on supporting.
I sort of agree with that.

The discussion around unreleased models is so full of drama lol. I sort of wish PB made a hardline statement that Vanguards were expected to abide by, since their official tournament stance seems pretty soft but no event I've been to has abided by it and instead taken a hard no-unreleased-units stance.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




For anything I run I'm allowing for proxies. So long as the models are representative.

But I also haven't been a vanguard for a few months now so I don't know what their official rules are regarding that.

I know when it comes to vanguards and rules PB is mostly hands-off and lets the vanguard build their community how they see fit.

Caveat: I can get away with that since my public events are always going to be narrative and not competitive, so its a different mindset and different angle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/18 21:19:20


 
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

It is a shame that the Bow-Chosen were a limited release in resin.They are great looking miniatures.

I think i have two troop type boxes for all of the Nords released so far.With three of the Raiders.Only got one of each Jotnar released so far.Nords players seem to run two in games from what i have seen.

It is hard for new games coming-out with a small range to get things started.Maybe not showing the other unit/character types until they are released would have been a good way to go.

Still plenty of options with what i have so far to keep me busy for awhile.

   
Made in pl
Huge Hierodule





 manic _miner wrote:
It is a shame that the Bow-Chosen were a limited release in resin.

They are supposed to have a plastic version but no date was given.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

 Shadow Walker wrote:
 manic _miner wrote:
It is a shame that the Bow-Chosen were a limited release in resin.

They are supposed to have a plastic version but no date was given.


I was told that no new Nords stuff till the middle of the Year.Also heard about the plastic version.

   
Made in us
Clousseau




Even in plastic though they are largely in need of a retuning.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

Any more videos being worked on Auticus?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 16:27:53


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Valley, California

 auticus wrote:
I think if Huscarls were jacked up in power you'd see them more. As they are now, they just don't compete with trolls.

My nord force is raiders, huscarls, bow chosen, steel chosen, and some giants. It is a lot of fun to run but in terms of power its about C+ at best, so it gets owned pretty hard against most of the lists I have had to face.


Friends have recently jumped into the full game of Conquest: LAoK and I am tempted to join them when I can up North. But this imbalance discussion is worrisome; do you
foresee the game getting the attention it needs from designers in the future, to ensure unit variety and less regretful purchases by players?

So far I have Nords and 100 Kingdoms assembled for First Blood, but if I advance into the full game I'm uncertain which of the two I'll expand.

~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five decades.
AoS * Warcry * LoTR SBG * Dust 1947 * Warmaster 10mm * Firefight * Konflikt '47 * Grimdark Future (1 page rules) * Reign in Hell
 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




I know the designers are constantly doing tuning and that they do seem to legit care about balance.

I think that their intentions are good. The playtesting process is what needs worked on. My prediction is that until there is a proper tournament meta breaking the game though that you won't see that really in effect because right now you'll get 12 different opinions on what balance should even mean and the playtesting process lacks organization (IMO - its one of the reasons I backed out of the program).

For example: I know a couple people that will say the nords are perfectly fine right now and in a great place with their jarl and huskarls etc... and that the troll / blooded torpedo bomb you see commonly is just people latching on to the easier way to play...
but those people also tend to be primarily about club play with their mates and just having a good time and aren't really trying to bust the game either.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 02:52:40


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Valley, California

 auticus wrote:
I know the designers are constantly doing tuning and that they do seem to legit care about balance.

I think that their intentions are good. The playtesting process is what needs worked on. My prediction is that until there is a proper tournament meta breaking the game though that you won't see that really in effect because right now you'll get 12 different opinions on what balance should even mean and the playtesting process lacks organization (IMO - its one of the reasons I backed out of the program).

For example: I know a couple people that will say the nords are perfectly fine right now and in a great place with their jarl and huskarls etc... and that the troll / blooded torpedo bomb you see commonly is just people latching on to the easier way to play...
but those people also tend to be primarily about club play with their mates and just having a good time and aren't really trying to bust the game either.


I've worked as a volunteer / rep for numerous companies as well. Tell me, now that you've stepped back from the program, do you still play C: LAoK?

~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five decades.
AoS * Warcry * LoTR SBG * Dust 1947 * Warmaster 10mm * Firefight * Konflikt '47 * Grimdark Future (1 page rules) * Reign in Hell
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






The fact that the playtesters can, with a straight face, say that people finding certain things too good/very bad due to local metas... What are you playtesting? Your own playtester meta?

When people brag about having hundreds of playtest games with faction X or Y you'd think you'd have playtested against some of these "other meta" lists.

I'm sure the game is perfectly balanced if you play exactly the same way with the same lists as the playtesters

The above probably seems too harsh, and isn't really meant to be. I think the game is in a really good state right now even if some options don't feel nice to play.

There's a lot of Timmy's in the community, it seems. By that, I mean people who find intricate combos that make bad units really strong and hyperfocus on the idea. You especially see this in Spires and W'adrhun, where pheromancy X or warchant Y makes jank units EXCELLENT!!! But... why wouldn't I just take a solid unit and then buff THAT to extremes??

Because people are finding ways to make bad units work, it seems like attention isn't being given to those bad units. W'adrhun Braves and Hunters were untouched with the last big balancing change! But Blooded and Slingers got much needed adjustments. Then you think about the commanders-corner channel of the discord and how a lot of W'adrhun players favor taking big bricks of Braves and stacking warchant buffs and expensive items on them and it all clicks in your head...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 13:57:56


I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
 auticus wrote:
I know the designers are constantly doing tuning and that they do seem to legit care about balance.

I think that their intentions are good. The playtesting process is what needs worked on. My prediction is that until there is a proper tournament meta breaking the game though that you won't see that really in effect because right now you'll get 12 different opinions on what balance should even mean and the playtesting process lacks organization (IMO - its one of the reasons I backed out of the program).

For example: I know a couple people that will say the nords are perfectly fine right now and in a great place with their jarl and huskarls etc... and that the troll / blooded torpedo bomb you see commonly is just people latching on to the easier way to play...
but those people also tend to be primarily about club play with their mates and just having a good time and aren't really trying to bust the game either.


I've worked as a volunteer / rep for numerous companies as well. Tell me, now that you've stepped back from the program, do you still play C: LAoK?


I do yes - I'm new to where I live now and we started building a community in October and are beginning my stornlands campaign that I had up on the underspire this week as a monthly map campaign event. I still love the game. The balance right now is tolerable for me because the really competitive crowd hasn't hit yet and we can still do things narratively or more for fun and everyone seems to be cool with that, which was not my experience in the aos or 40k communities. I found that same truism in battletech as well though. Battletech is a lot of fun for me for the same reason - there is no hyper optimization crowd breaking the game, but it can be broken over there as well. The moment all of my games have to be tournament-tuning games for someone else and everything is built off of meta exploitation, I will walk away same as I did with GW games.

Because people are finding ways to make bad units work, it seems like attention isn't being given to those bad units.

My experience with the playtesters there is the same as it was when i was doing azyr and doing playtesting for AOS back in 2015. They do hyper focus on what they love and a lot of the bad things were indeed not reported or tested very often in lieu of focusing on what they thought was powerful to make sure it wasn't too powerful. Most with a few exceptions were also not trying to break the game, they were playing it for fun and gauging how fun that was. One of the more prominent examples I remember was them saying something about 100 kingdoms was fine (this was before they were tuned and most players didn't think they were fine, but the playtesters thought they were ok and didn't need much) and then when pressed for a battle report, they posted on youtube a TTS game and the 100 kingdoms player was playing with militia spam and was up against the playtest whadrun using most of their bad units. The conclusion drawn was that the 100 kingdoms, which were generally seen as a bad army, did ok against whadrun when the whadrun were fielding units generally seen as also being something optimizers would avoid, and that that proved 100 kingdoms were just fine and the bad whadrun units were by virtue of the 100 kingdoms being fine, also in an ok place needing some minor adjustments. This made my tester OCD tweak off the chart

The Age of Sigmar playtesting group in 2015/2016 was several shades worse to put that in comparison though.

The raptors were another area that I died on a hill over. I was against the idea of all raptor armies because I don't want to see the return to all cavalry hammer like 7th edition warhammer. There were people aggressively FOR all raptor armies, but in that regard I think a good compromise was won (raptors went from mediums to lights so they couldn't score objectives).

Now caveat - the playtesters very rarely posted their results to the other playtesters and the PB dev team did not post any findings either so a lot of us were groping around in the dark in terms of results, and that was supposed to be a good thing because they didn't want our results influencing each other. I personally do not like that and from a software QA standpoint, the thought of hiding results from each other is aberrant. Their theory was if something was really a problem then they'd see a pattern of people reporting it as such.

Most of the playtesters (at least the vocal ones) were also very very very against using math and probabilities and some aggressively against it. To me, you can't playtest a game based on statistics and probabilities without using statistics and probabilities.

Final caveat - my opinion is only my opinion. It is not a fact, and there are 1000 ways to playtest a product, not just my own. They have something going that they think works for them so hats off to them. I'm still playing the game - I just left all that stuff behind because the way they organize it is not something that I can really enjoy doing and I'm worn out from arguing with people anymore.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/01/25 15:48:21


 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




Joust - stage 2 (added fence)
[Thumb - joust_1.jpg]

[Thumb - joust_2.jpg]

[Thumb - joust_3.jpg]

[Thumb - joust_4.jpg]

   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

Nice display base.Looks like you have used water effects too.
Fence looks a bit wonky.Is that due to the resin moulding process?
Got a mounted Lord made-up Yesterday for my son to use.Just need to do a few more units for him and get a couple of other bits to get the force sorted.

   
Made in us
Clousseau




The fence didn't fit completely right. It was a little too long so had to be shaved a bit and then it was bent a little (as were the knight lances).

I put them in some boiling water and straightened them out best I could. They are still a bit bent but serviceable.

The puddles are several layers of high gloss. The base itself is moulded nice to already have the shape of the water.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 16:45:15


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Valley, California

I'm going to expand my Nord army so I can play with my Northern California crew a bit. At least so I can provide my own minis when we get together. They may not be powerful units, but I will play so relatively rarely in comparison to AoS that I don't much care. Been looking for an excuse to buy the Trolls anyway. By the time I really get into the game, if I enjoy it, perhaps they will be more balanced by then. I Just discovered the army builder thanks to 2+ Tough's instructional video on YouTube. Awesome resource.

~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five decades.
AoS * Warcry * LoTR SBG * Dust 1947 * Warmaster 10mm * Firefight * Konflikt '47 * Grimdark Future (1 page rules) * Reign in Hell
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






From the Conquest Discord, three online events with open participation!
Do you have painted models? Do you have a camera? Can you take pictures? If you answered yes to these questions then you could win $100 in Conquest products.

The community is trying to expand the online collection of painted 3D conquest models, and we could use the rest of the communities help!

For details see this google doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1brojPwuN8ChGbgkI6wwwP9Jk0eIWFpE4-iJZVjJfxA0/edit?usp=sharing

This event will run until the end of April, so if your models aren't painted yet, they could be!

If you would like a chance to win a Founder's Exclusive model from the comfort of your home then you need to look no further than the Online Conquest Tournament.

Beginning on February 26th, this will be a 4-7 week event. In the first phase you will battle it out in a round robin with other payers in nearby time zones. The top players from each group will then battle it out to determine who will conquer the rest!

For more information, see the following google Doc, or feel free to message me with questions.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v37hJ5Axg8_nhTKR7Q2jYt1LinijZLz_hibtCskez5s/edit?usp=sharing

If you are looking to learn to play Conquest, or explore a new army, then the Online Conquest League is the event for you! Over 3 months you will grow from 750 to 2000 points. As a casual event, all are welcome, and you can join in, or hop out at any time.

If you are interested, see the following google doc for details
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XATBIhsUCFEz6djjLenoMU2hXLmfDk7ta775f_miN9k/edit?usp=sharing

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




I jumped off of their discord a while ago - which one is organizing those?
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






 auticus wrote:
I jumped off of their discord a while ago - which one is organizing those?


I think it's Conquest Eternal, but I got the postings from the official Discord. It may not be Conquest Eternal at all and just the user Nicreap setting it up and running it, since Conquest Eternal is only mentioned in one of the linked docs?

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




Cool. I'm not familiar with those individuals.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





North-East England

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
I'm going to expand my Nord army so I can play with my Northern California crew a bit. At least so I can provide my own minis when we get together. They may not be powerful units, but I will play so relatively rarely in comparison to AoS that I don't much care. Been looking for an excuse to buy the Trolls anyway. By the time I really get into the game, if I enjoy it, perhaps they will be more balanced by then. I Just discovered the army builder thanks to 2+ Tough's instructional video on YouTube. Awesome resource.


What do you have for your Nords so far then Shrapnelsmile?

The Trolls are nice models.They look kind of weird then they just seem to grow on you.Need to get my set that is made-up painted then make the other box up.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Valley, California

 manic _miner wrote:
 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
I'm going to expand my Nord army so I can play with my Northern California crew a bit. At least so I can provide my own minis when we get together. They may not be powerful units, but I will play so relatively rarely in comparison to AoS that I don't much care. Been looking for an excuse to buy the Trolls anyway. By the time I really get into the game, if I enjoy it, perhaps they will be more balanced by then. I Just discovered the army builder thanks to 2+ Tough's instructional video on YouTube. Awesome resource.


What do you have for your Nords so far then Shrapnelsmile?

The Trolls are nice models.They look kind of weird then they just seem to grow on you.Need to get my set that is made-up painted then make the other box up.


I have a box of Raiders
The Shaman
Jarl
and a start playing box -- UGR x 3, Blooded, Mountain Jotnar and stalkers. If the leaders match up to the troops in Conquest the way they do in First Blood, I think I have
a solid start --- at least with Blooded.

Yes, the trolls are .... odd. So unusual I've become quite smitten with them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 manic _miner wrote:
I think i like to have a good mix of unit types in my forces.Just seems a better fit for the story element.
Only played 750 point games so far in First Blood.Using Nords.Had a Blooded,Jarl,Huscarls,Raiders,Fenr and Trolls.
I think i will add Stalkers and another Raider unit to the force to expand it in the future.


Did you enjoy First Blood? That is what I originally bought my models for, but my local opponent has not been able to get his stuff assembled.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/28 02:55:25


~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five decades.
AoS * Warcry * LoTR SBG * Dust 1947 * Warmaster 10mm * Firefight * Konflikt '47 * Grimdark Future (1 page rules) * Reign in Hell
 
   
 
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