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Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I agree with Daed. Been a lot of "Ghaz is awful" talk going on in the Ork Taktikz thread, but I think Ghaz can be competitively viable. Just not as a beatstick. In a vehicle heavy list, he makes a fine Distraction Carnifex.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

He doesn't get benefits from his own aura, nor does he affect even Bikers. He's sloppily written, period. There's no "unique and interesting" argument you can make here.


Again - there's a difference between "sloppy" and "GW didn't do what I want / expect".

There are also plenty of Ork HQs bound to just INFANTRY or just BIKES as well. I mean his original aura was INFANTRY only for gaks sake.


Which was one of his problems to begin with that way complained about. So you're not helping your case here, not that you really have one to begin with. Also it IS sloppy as he's always benefitted from his own rules until now.

Seriously it's like you're almost on their payroll like the Community people defending the trash rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
I agree with Daed. Been a lot of "Ghaz is awful" talk going on in the Ork Taktikz thread, but I think Ghaz can be competitively viable. Just not as a beatstick. In a vehicle heavy list, he makes a fine Distraction Carnifex.

How's he even a distraction? He can't advance and charge so that means he's actually pretty slow. Knock off just the four wounds and he's moving at a paltry 6".

Anyone thinking he's dangerous is just a bad player.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/15 18:51:06


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought




Nottingham

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Only being able to take 4 Damage per phase is unique.

I'm not saying Ghaz couldn't have some improvements, but he does have unique and interesting features.

So in other words, instead of dying T1, he dies on T2 instead. That's really no more unique than Roboute coming back from the dead.
Still a unique rule, unlike Guilliman (as other characters share his "come back from the grave" ability, like Celestine). Can you name any models who are explicitly unable to lose a certain amount of Wounds per round/phase?

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
Join the Crion Crusade: I think it's the combination of butt jokes, democratic necrons, explosions, and mind-fething that draws people to this Crusade like moths to a bug zapper - War Kitten
Rippy wrote:Never forgetti, template spaghetti.
DR:90S++G++MB+IPw40k07-D++A++/sWD366R++T(F)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

Unique=/=good.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

You know you can Advance and, like, not Charge right? Why is it that everyone thinks that not being able to Advance and Charge means you're just not going to Advance? Advance Turn 1 so you don't have to on Turn 2.

Also, his second Wound Bracket starts at 7, so even with 4 Wounds down, he's still moving at top speed.

If you don't feel like he's dangerous, feel free to ignore him as he moves up the board. Unless you admit that he's dangerous enough to require that you throw at least 4 Damage a phase at him.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which was one of his problems to begin with that way complained about. So you're not helping your case here, not that you really have one to begin with. Also it IS sloppy as he's always benefitted from his own rules until now.

Seriously it's like you're almost on their payroll like the Community people defending the trash rules.


Again, again - there's a difference between "sloppy" and "GW didn't do what I want / expect".

He always benefited before and now he's a god damn tank.

Sorry that I don't get my pants in a twist over nothing burgers. GW couldn't pay me enough to work for the absolute garbage on these forums some times. I just hate bs and whining so much I do it for free.

Oh noooo Ghazkull can't advance and charge out of deepstrike...what do we doo? He doesn't get +1A from it either....travesty....I wonder what his WL trait dooooesss...

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 JNAProductions wrote:
Unique=/=good.

But unique does mean unique. You can't complain that Ghaz has nothing special about him while he has a unique mechanic.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Only being able to take 4 Damage per phase is unique.

I'm not saying Ghaz couldn't have some improvements, but he does have unique and interesting features.

So in other words, instead of dying T1, he dies on T2 instead. That's really no more unique than Roboute coming back from the dead.
Still a unique rule, unlike Guilliman (as other characters share his "come back from the grave" ability, like Celestine). Can you name any models who are explicitly unable to lose a certain amount of Wounds per round/phase?

Certain characters half damage, which is similar enough. Only difference is once you did your 4 for the phase, you focus elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
You know you can Advance and, like, not Charge right? Why is it that everyone thinks that not being able to Advance and Charge means you're just not going to Advance? Advance Turn 1 so you don't have to on Turn 2.

Also, his second Wound Bracket starts at 7, so even with 4 Wounds down, he's still moving at top speed.

If you don't feel like he's dangerous, feel free to ignore him as he moves up the board. Unless you admit that he's dangerous enough to require that you throw at least 4 Damage a phase at him.

Because for one, he doesn't benefit from his own aura, which he always has, and two he is still slow, unless you somehow think a total move of 10" is really fast for whatever reason. At least if he could charge, that would speed up how quickly he gets to tie things up before they need to fall back. He can't even do that though, so what is he a distraction FOR exactly? You could teleport him, and then he lands four on average S5 shots, and then you sit twiddling your thumbs before he loses 12 wounds for shooting, smites, and melee, since relying on a rerolled charge for that expensive a model isn't a winning strategy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which was one of his problems to begin with that way complained about. So you're not helping your case here, not that you really have one to begin with. Also it IS sloppy as he's always benefitted from his own rules until now.

Seriously it's like you're almost on their payroll like the Community people defending the trash rules.


Again, again - there's a difference between "sloppy" and "GW didn't do what I want / expect".

He always benefited before and now he's a god damn tank.

Sorry that I don't get my pants in a twist over nothing burgers. GW couldn't pay me enough to work for the absolute garbage on these forums some times. I just hate bs and whining so much I do it for free.

Oh noooo Ghazkull can't advance and charge out of deepstrike...what do we doo? He doesn't get +1A from it either....travesty....I wonder what his WL trait dooooesss...

No, it is sloppy. You haven't shown that it is written on purpose that he doesn't benefit from several rules that he's benefitted from before. Inconsistency equates sloppiness, which is already a known trait for a lot of the writing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/15 20:20:09


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Eastern Washington

Getting back to Marines.....

Super elite I'd say. So elite you have no chance against them. Bolter porn aside I'd say a 2000 point army should be around 40 or so infantry and 2 to 3 vehicles.

4,000 Word Bearers 1,500 
   
Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

They should be elite, highly mobile and devastating at short/melee range.

They should completely lose any attempt to form a gunline strategy. It makes no sense given their background that they would even attempt it.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in ca
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





I think a redo of Movie Marines would be wonderful! It feels like something that's not actually that overpowered compaired to what they have now.

Updating marines across the board to movie marine levels would feel like a massive power boost, but costed right, it could be amazing.

Girl Gamers are the best! 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Spoiler:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Only being able to take 4 Damage per phase is unique.

I'm not saying Ghaz couldn't have some improvements, but he does have unique and interesting features.

So in other words, instead of dying T1, he dies on T2 instead. That's really no more unique than Roboute coming back from the dead.
Still a unique rule, unlike Guilliman (as other characters share his "come back from the grave" ability, like Celestine). Can you name any models who are explicitly unable to lose a certain amount of Wounds per round/phase?

Certain characters half damage, which is similar enough. Only difference is once you did your 4 for the phase, you focus elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
You know you can Advance and, like, not Charge right? Why is it that everyone thinks that not being able to Advance and Charge means you're just not going to Advance? Advance Turn 1 so you don't have to on Turn 2.

Also, his second Wound Bracket starts at 7, so even with 4 Wounds down, he's still moving at top speed.

If you don't feel like he's dangerous, feel free to ignore him as he moves up the board. Unless you admit that he's dangerous enough to require that you throw at least 4 Damage a phase at him.

Because for one, he doesn't benefit from his own aura, which he always has, and two he is still slow, unless you somehow think a total move of 10" is really fast for whatever reason. At least if he could charge, that would speed up how quickly he gets to tie things up before they need to fall back. He can't even do that though, so what is he a distraction FOR exactly? You could teleport him, and then he lands four on average S5 shots, and then you sit twiddling your thumbs before he loses 12 wounds for shooting, smites, and melee, since relying on a rerolled charge for that expensive a model isn't a winning strategy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which was one of his problems to begin with that way complained about. So you're not helping your case here, not that you really have one to begin with. Also it IS sloppy as he's always benefitted from his own rules until now.

Seriously it's like you're almost on their payroll like the Community people defending the trash rules.


Again, again - there's a difference between "sloppy" and "GW didn't do what I want / expect".

He always benefited before and now he's a god damn tank.

Sorry that I don't get my pants in a twist over nothing burgers. GW couldn't pay me enough to work for the absolute garbage on these forums some times. I just hate bs and whining so much I do it for free.

Oh noooo Ghazkull can't advance and charge out of deepstrike...what do we doo? He doesn't get +1A from it either....travesty....I wonder what his WL trait dooooesss...

No, it is sloppy. You haven't shown that it is written on purpose that he doesn't benefit from several rules that he's benefitted from before. Inconsistency equates sloppiness, which is already a known trait for a lot of the writing.


Definitely not sloppy.

I don't know the previous rules, and reading his rules know my first thought was "What a nice rule design!". He is thematic and powerful without being OP or obvious in the way you should use him.

It is one of the best model designs made up to now, and we should encourage GW to make more models like that instead of complaining that a model doesn't fit the current competitive builds (which no new model should ever do).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/16 12:51:55


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
Spoiler:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Only being able to take 4 Damage per phase is unique.

I'm not saying Ghaz couldn't have some improvements, but he does have unique and interesting features.

So in other words, instead of dying T1, he dies on T2 instead. That's really no more unique than Roboute coming back from the dead.
Still a unique rule, unlike Guilliman (as other characters share his "come back from the grave" ability, like Celestine). Can you name any models who are explicitly unable to lose a certain amount of Wounds per round/phase?

Certain characters half damage, which is similar enough. Only difference is once you did your 4 for the phase, you focus elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
You know you can Advance and, like, not Charge right? Why is it that everyone thinks that not being able to Advance and Charge means you're just not going to Advance? Advance Turn 1 so you don't have to on Turn 2.

Also, his second Wound Bracket starts at 7, so even with 4 Wounds down, he's still moving at top speed.

If you don't feel like he's dangerous, feel free to ignore him as he moves up the board. Unless you admit that he's dangerous enough to require that you throw at least 4 Damage a phase at him.

Because for one, he doesn't benefit from his own aura, which he always has, and two he is still slow, unless you somehow think a total move of 10" is really fast for whatever reason. At least if he could charge, that would speed up how quickly he gets to tie things up before they need to fall back. He can't even do that though, so what is he a distraction FOR exactly? You could teleport him, and then he lands four on average S5 shots, and then you sit twiddling your thumbs before he loses 12 wounds for shooting, smites, and melee, since relying on a rerolled charge for that expensive a model isn't a winning strategy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which was one of his problems to begin with that way complained about. So you're not helping your case here, not that you really have one to begin with. Also it IS sloppy as he's always benefitted from his own rules until now.

Seriously it's like you're almost on their payroll like the Community people defending the trash rules.


Again, again - there's a difference between "sloppy" and "GW didn't do what I want / expect".

He always benefited before and now he's a god damn tank.

Sorry that I don't get my pants in a twist over nothing burgers. GW couldn't pay me enough to work for the absolute garbage on these forums some times. I just hate bs and whining so much I do it for free.

Oh noooo Ghazkull can't advance and charge out of deepstrike...what do we doo? He doesn't get +1A from it either....travesty....I wonder what his WL trait dooooesss...

No, it is sloppy. You haven't shown that it is written on purpose that he doesn't benefit from several rules that he's benefitted from before. Inconsistency equates sloppiness, which is already a known trait for a lot of the writing.


Definitely not sloppy.

I don't know the previous rules, and reading his rules know my first thought was "What a nice rule design!". He is thematic and powerful without being OP or obvious in the way you should use him.

It is one of the best model designs made up to now, and we should encourage GW to make more models like that instead of complaining that a model doesn't fit the current competitive builds (which no new model should ever do).

You're not showing how it's not sloppy. I provided some evidence (rules not working on him like before, previous sloppiness) and you have not done as much.

You not knowing the previous rules is not my concern, but the greatest Ork ever not being able to advance and charge himself while everyone else (more specifically just Infantry as apparently Ork Bikers and the like don't find him inspirational) around him does is pretty inconsistent.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought




Nottingham

JNAProductions wrote:Unique=/=good.
I never said it was. People were saying that he had no unique abilities, which is untrue. I'm not saying they need to be good, only that they are unique.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Certain characters half damage, which is similar enough.
Eh, I disagree. That's like saying a 4+++ is the same as half damage, which is only true from certain perspectives.

Read the history of the Charadon Crusade: The Crusade of Fury was at an end.
Join the Crion Crusade: I think it's the combination of butt jokes, democratic necrons, explosions, and mind-fething that draws people to this Crusade like moths to a bug zapper - War Kitten
Rippy wrote:Never forgetti, template spaghetti.
DR:90S++G++MB+IPw40k07-D++A++/sWD366R++T(F)DM+ 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Spoiler:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Only being able to take 4 Damage per phase is unique.

I'm not saying Ghaz couldn't have some improvements, but he does have unique and interesting features.

So in other words, instead of dying T1, he dies on T2 instead. That's really no more unique than Roboute coming back from the dead.
Still a unique rule, unlike Guilliman (as other characters share his "come back from the grave" ability, like Celestine). Can you name any models who are explicitly unable to lose a certain amount of Wounds per round/phase?

Certain characters half damage, which is similar enough. Only difference is once you did your 4 for the phase, you focus elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
You know you can Advance and, like, not Charge right? Why is it that everyone thinks that not being able to Advance and Charge means you're just not going to Advance? Advance Turn 1 so you don't have to on Turn 2.

Also, his second Wound Bracket starts at 7, so even with 4 Wounds down, he's still moving at top speed.

If you don't feel like he's dangerous, feel free to ignore him as he moves up the board. Unless you admit that he's dangerous enough to require that you throw at least 4 Damage a phase at him.

Because for one, he doesn't benefit from his own aura, which he always has, and two he is still slow, unless you somehow think a total move of 10" is really fast for whatever reason. At least if he could charge, that would speed up how quickly he gets to tie things up before they need to fall back. He can't even do that though, so what is he a distraction FOR exactly? You could teleport him, and then he lands four on average S5 shots, and then you sit twiddling your thumbs before he loses 12 wounds for shooting, smites, and melee, since relying on a rerolled charge for that expensive a model isn't a winning strategy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which was one of his problems to begin with that way complained about. So you're not helping your case here, not that you really have one to begin with. Also it IS sloppy as he's always benefitted from his own rules until now.

Seriously it's like you're almost on their payroll like the Community people defending the trash rules.


Again, again - there's a difference between "sloppy" and "GW didn't do what I want / expect".

He always benefited before and now he's a god damn tank.

Sorry that I don't get my pants in a twist over nothing burgers. GW couldn't pay me enough to work for the absolute garbage on these forums some times. I just hate bs and whining so much I do it for free.

Oh noooo Ghazkull can't advance and charge out of deepstrike...what do we doo? He doesn't get +1A from it either....travesty....I wonder what his WL trait dooooesss...

No, it is sloppy. You haven't shown that it is written on purpose that he doesn't benefit from several rules that he's benefitted from before. Inconsistency equates sloppiness, which is already a known trait for a lot of the writing.


Definitely not sloppy.

I don't know the previous rules, and reading his rules know my first thought was "What a nice rule design!". He is thematic and powerful without being OP or obvious in the way you should use him.

It is one of the best model designs made up to now, and we should encourage GW to make more models like that instead of complaining that a model doesn't fit the current competitive builds (which no new model should ever do).

You're not showing how it's not sloppy. I provided some evidence (rules not working on him like before, previous sloppiness) and you have not done as much.

You not knowing the previous rules is not my concern, but the greatest Ork ever not being able to advance and charge himself while everyone else (more specifically just Infantry as apparently Ork Bikers and the like don't find him inspirational) around him does is pretty inconsistent.


I gave plenty of reasons, let me repeat it again "He is thematic and powerful without being OP or obvious in the way you should use him." that's the definition of a not sloppy design. Sloppy refers to something made without passion and minimal resources. Copying the previous version with a buff here and there, now THAT would have been sloppy. This here instead is a nice example of model design.

Your definition of sloppy is "He differs too much from the previous version", which is a weird definition.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Yeah, I look at Ghaz and I see one of the very first successful iterations of a big monster character in 8th edition. He's not designed for the current competitive hellhole game that ends on turn 2, but he looks like an awesome piece for larger games. I couldn't care less that he has an aura he doesn't give to himself.You might as well complain that his other aura ability doesn't affect non-goffs.
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

For Orkz, 7" movement is pretty dang fast, especially for a "foot" model. That said, I don't think Ghaz is perfect. For me, I'd like to see his aura affect himself, I'd have preferred to have a "sweep" option for his Klaw, and I'd have liked for Ramming Speed to affect Monsters as well. But, in terms of sheer survivability, Ghaz outclasses anything else in the Ork line-up by miles.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Spoiler:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Only being able to take 4 Damage per phase is unique.

I'm not saying Ghaz couldn't have some improvements, but he does have unique and interesting features.

So in other words, instead of dying T1, he dies on T2 instead. That's really no more unique than Roboute coming back from the dead.
Still a unique rule, unlike Guilliman (as other characters share his "come back from the grave" ability, like Celestine). Can you name any models who are explicitly unable to lose a certain amount of Wounds per round/phase?

Certain characters half damage, which is similar enough. Only difference is once you did your 4 for the phase, you focus elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
You know you can Advance and, like, not Charge right? Why is it that everyone thinks that not being able to Advance and Charge means you're just not going to Advance? Advance Turn 1 so you don't have to on Turn 2.

Also, his second Wound Bracket starts at 7, so even with 4 Wounds down, he's still moving at top speed.

If you don't feel like he's dangerous, feel free to ignore him as he moves up the board. Unless you admit that he's dangerous enough to require that you throw at least 4 Damage a phase at him.

Because for one, he doesn't benefit from his own aura, which he always has, and two he is still slow, unless you somehow think a total move of 10" is really fast for whatever reason. At least if he could charge, that would speed up how quickly he gets to tie things up before they need to fall back. He can't even do that though, so what is he a distraction FOR exactly? You could teleport him, and then he lands four on average S5 shots, and then you sit twiddling your thumbs before he loses 12 wounds for shooting, smites, and melee, since relying on a rerolled charge for that expensive a model isn't a winning strategy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which was one of his problems to begin with that way complained about. So you're not helping your case here, not that you really have one to begin with. Also it IS sloppy as he's always benefitted from his own rules until now.

Seriously it's like you're almost on their payroll like the Community people defending the trash rules.


Again, again - there's a difference between "sloppy" and "GW didn't do what I want / expect".

He always benefited before and now he's a god damn tank.

Sorry that I don't get my pants in a twist over nothing burgers. GW couldn't pay me enough to work for the absolute garbage on these forums some times. I just hate bs and whining so much I do it for free.

Oh noooo Ghazkull can't advance and charge out of deepstrike...what do we doo? He doesn't get +1A from it either....travesty....I wonder what his WL trait dooooesss...

No, it is sloppy. You haven't shown that it is written on purpose that he doesn't benefit from several rules that he's benefitted from before. Inconsistency equates sloppiness, which is already a known trait for a lot of the writing.


Definitely not sloppy.

I don't know the previous rules, and reading his rules know my first thought was "What a nice rule design!". He is thematic and powerful without being OP or obvious in the way you should use him.

It is one of the best model designs made up to now, and we should encourage GW to make more models like that instead of complaining that a model doesn't fit the current competitive builds (which no new model should ever do).

You're not showing how it's not sloppy. I provided some evidence (rules not working on him like before, previous sloppiness) and you have not done as much.

You not knowing the previous rules is not my concern, but the greatest Ork ever not being able to advance and charge himself while everyone else (more specifically just Infantry as apparently Ork Bikers and the like don't find him inspirational) around him does is pretty inconsistent.


I gave plenty of reasons, let me repeat it again "He is thematic and powerful without being OP or obvious in the way you should use him." that's the definition of a not sloppy design. Sloppy refers to something made without passion and minimal resources. Copying the previous version with a buff here and there, now THAT would have been sloppy. This here instead is a nice example of model design.

Your definition of sloppy is "He differs too much from the previous version", which is a weird definition.

You're still not providing proof, you're giving benefit of the doubt to GW as the usual white knight would. He can't advance and charge like he used to whereas other Bosses just do it, he doesn't benefit even Goff Bikers with extra attacks as he's just not inspirational to them for whatever reason but regular Wartrikes will be helping THEM advance and charge, and of course he has the pointless stikk Bombs that he'll never use.
So he isn't going to do anything besides live until T2, which regular Warbosses will do with basic character protection rules. He's sloppy design with little thought put into him. They didn't even bother to give him D2 on his shooting weapon that he will land maybe FIVE hits with, which scares nobody. Ya know, GW thinking they give him 12 shots and he's dangerous in shooting all the sudden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
For Orkz, 7" movement is pretty dang fast, especially for a "foot" model. That said, I don't think Ghaz is perfect. For me, I'd like to see his aura affect himself, I'd have preferred to have a "sweep" option for his Klaw, and I'd have liked for Ramming Speed to affect Monsters as well. But, in terms of sheer survivability, Ghaz outclasses anything else in the Ork line-up by miles.

It's not fast simply because he cannot charge after advancing. He's moving an average of 10.5" or just 7" with the chance to charge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/16 20:02:16


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Repeating that something is sloppy design without providing reasons for it isn't gonna make it real
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
Repeating that something is sloppy design without providing reasons for it isn't gonna make it real

I did provide reasons.
1. Sloppy writing has been a consistency from GW. It's hard to deny this.
2. Rules that he benefitted from before with no issue do not benefit him now, simply because of a keyword change preventing it, especially when other Warboss variants benefit themselves too. That is inconsistency and therefore sloppiness.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Holy Terra

I've played a few test games against Ghaz, using a Dread as a proxy.

He's awesome, and not just in Goff armies. Much, much harder to deal with than you would think, and teleporting him in us very worthwhile.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

Waiting on Xenomancer to call Ghaz OP, so I can finally realize that Ghaz is awful.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Holy Terra

I don't think he's op, and I expect his final cost to be at the 250-270 mark.

There are some great plays, and I think he can really bully certain armies!

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Repeating that something is sloppy design without providing reasons for it isn't gonna make it real

I did provide reasons.
1. Sloppy writing has been a consistency from GW. It's hard to deny this.
2. Rules that he benefitted from before with no issue do not benefit him now, simply because of a keyword change preventing it, especially when other Warboss variants benefit themselves too. That is inconsistency and therefore sloppiness.


1) Nonsense reason, i will not waste time on it.

2) Inconsistent and sloppy are 2 completely different things. Sloppy means lazy.

Please provide a reason why you think that design is sloppy, you still have not done so.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Repeating that something is sloppy design without providing reasons for it isn't gonna make it real

I did provide reasons.
1. Sloppy writing has been a consistency from GW. It's hard to deny this.
2. Rules that he benefitted from before with no issue do not benefit him now, simply because of a keyword change preventing it, especially when other Warboss variants benefit themselves too. That is inconsistency and therefore sloppiness.


1) Nonsense reason, i will not waste time on it.

2) Inconsistent and sloppy are 2 completely different things. Sloppy means lazy.

Please provide a reason why you think that design is sloppy, you still have not done so.

1. Generic Warboss benefits from own aura
2. Generic Wartrike benefits from own aura
3. Ghaz somehow doesn't because nothing was reworded in his rules
That's sloppy right there AND inconsistent

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Repeating that something is sloppy design without providing reasons for it isn't gonna make it real

I did provide reasons.
1. Sloppy writing has been a consistency from GW. It's hard to deny this.
2. Rules that he benefitted from before with no issue do not benefit him now, simply because of a keyword change preventing it, especially when other Warboss variants benefit themselves too. That is inconsistency and therefore sloppiness.


1) Nonsense reason, i will not waste time on it.

2) Inconsistent and sloppy are 2 completely different things. Sloppy means lazy.

Please provide a reason why you think that design is sloppy, you still have not done so.

1. Generic Warboss benefits from own aura
2. Generic Wartrike benefits from own aura
3. Ghaz somehow doesn't because nothing was reworded in his rules
That's sloppy right there AND inconsistent


So you wanted new Ghaz to be a copy +1 of a warboss? And you talk about being sloppy?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Repeating that something is sloppy design without providing reasons for it isn't gonna make it real

I did provide reasons.
1. Sloppy writing has been a consistency from GW. It's hard to deny this.
2. Rules that he benefitted from before with no issue do not benefit him now, simply because of a keyword change preventing it, especially when other Warboss variants benefit themselves too. That is inconsistency and therefore sloppiness.


1) Nonsense reason, i will not waste time on it.

2) Inconsistent and sloppy are 2 completely different things. Sloppy means lazy.

Please provide a reason why you think that design is sloppy, you still have not done so.

1. Generic Warboss benefits from own aura
2. Generic Wartrike benefits from own aura
3. Ghaz somehow doesn't because nothing was reworded in his rules
That's sloppy right there AND inconsistent


So you wanted new Ghaz to be a copy +1 of a warboss? And you talk about being sloppy?

That's literally what he is. The most powerful Warboss, who has always liked getting into the thick of it and had rules to help that, can no longer do it. Perhaps you want to defend it and say it's fluffy now because he's afraid of getting into melee with Blackmane again! Soooooo fluffy good job GW take my money!

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Holy Terra

He's stronger than he was before.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Repeating that something is sloppy design without providing reasons for it isn't gonna make it real

I did provide reasons.
1. Sloppy writing has been a consistency from GW. It's hard to deny this.
2. Rules that he benefitted from before with no issue do not benefit him now, simply because of a keyword change preventing it, especially when other Warboss variants benefit themselves too. That is inconsistency and therefore sloppiness.


1) Nonsense reason, i will not waste time on it.

2) Inconsistent and sloppy are 2 completely different things. Sloppy means lazy.

Please provide a reason why you think that design is sloppy, you still have not done so.

1. Generic Warboss benefits from own aura
2. Generic Wartrike benefits from own aura
3. Ghaz somehow doesn't because nothing was reworded in his rules
That's sloppy right there AND inconsistent


So you wanted new Ghaz to be a copy +1 of a warboss? And you talk about being sloppy?

That's literally what he is. The most powerful Warboss, who has always liked getting into the thick of it and had rules to help that, can no longer do it. Perhaps you want to defend it and say it's fluffy now because he's afraid of getting into melee with Blackmane again! Soooooo fluffy good job GW take my money!


"GW you are so lazy! You gave me a new inspired design, extremely characteristic and with actual new rules, instead of another generic warboss that i could do in 5 minutes copy pasting the standard datasheet and increasing some random numbers!! How can you be so lazy!!!"



You can complain that you don't like the new design, but complaining that they were lazy because they have put extra work in it, is ultra dumb.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/03/17 16:04:38


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




New defense characteristic is hardly an inspired design.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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