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If they went down at all I can use them again!!!
This is a surprisingly balanced cost reduction in gaurd resilience forces, with the lower bullygrn unit cost, and the free mauls for ogryn bodygaurds.
Its almost not crazy!

Dukeofstuff wrote:
If they went down at all I can use them again!!!
This is a surprisingly balanced cost reduction in gaurd resilience forces, with the lower bullygrn unit cost, and the free mauls for ogryn bodygaurds.
Its almost not crazy!

Pretty much. Its basically completed the shift that started with the points changes from 8th to 9th.

Infantry Squads -> out
Bullgryn, Riders, etc -> in

Infantry Squads have gone up 37.5% since 8th.

Give us objsec on our specialist infantry in the codex and we are good.

Asymmetric wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:

Crusaders : +1 point / model

Didn't crusaders go down 4points?

Powerswords seem baked in now. They were 20 with swords, now 16

You are right, I missed another baked-in price.
Will amend my list.


I'm still scratching my head over what happened to the Baneblade and variants.
Previously (MFM-2020) it was like this :
basic Baneblade (385) + vehicle autocannon (15) + demolisher cannon (20) + twin heavy bolter (30) = 450 points
Baneblade with a pair of sponsons : 450 + twin heavy bolters (+30*2) + two laser cannons (+20*2) = 550 points
Baneblade with two pairs of sponsons : 450 + twin heavy bolters (+30*4) + two laser cannons (+20*4) = 650 points

MFM-2021 :
basic Baneblade (450) all weapons now included, except twin heavy bolters (+50) = 500 points
Baneblade with a pair of sponsons : 500 + heavy bolters (50*2), laser cannon free = 600 points
Baneblade with two pairs of sponsons : 500 +50*4 = 700 points

WTF +50 points on a vehicle already gathering dust (or melta shots) ??
Is that right ?

I suspect they meant for the twin heavy bolters +_50 to be actually "sponsoon with" and for the non sponsoon twin heavy bolters to be free.

That would be aka the same price. Someoen shoutld tell them of the typo, as its likely that some helpful intern edited it out "gosh, its unnecessary to say sponsoon, the model people can find where the bolters fit on the model." That helpful copy editor (see? they DO have one) in his only act of attempted editing for the entire year, successfully screwed us all.

You're almost certainly right, especially since the lascannons are free now.

not so free -- it just means they baked the cost of the lascannon into the twin bolter OR twin flamer that you have to take with each sponsoon.

The front gun, lamentably ALSO shares the price burden of a lascan it doesn't get.

Scions have some stealth discounts, taurox primes with autocannons are now 10 points off and regular scions can get a free plasma pistol on the tempestor - almost certainly a typo though!

Insularum wrote:
Scions have some stealth discounts, taurox primes with autocannons are now 10 points off and regular scions can get a free plasma pistol on the tempestor - almost certainly a typo though!

You want a Rod of Command on the Tempestor most of the time. So a bit of a meh discount.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:

Insularum wrote:
Scions have some stealth discounts, taurox primes with autocannons are now 10 points off and regular scions can get a free plasma pistol on the tempestor - almost certainly a typo though!

You want a Rod of Command on the Tempestor most of the time. So a bit of a meh discount.

M.

Tempestor as in squad sergeant not Tempestor Prime the HQ, so 5 points of gear per squad for free.

Inquisition Acolytes are plain broken at 9 ppm with Special Weapons included...you can have 18 Plasma/Melta for 162 mere points and if you go with a Xeno Inquisitor you can also pay 3 CP to strategic reserve them all and have the Inquisitor cast Psychic Veil to turn give them old 8TH Character Protection (bonus if you also take another Inquisitor for Psychic Pursuit shenanigans)

130pts for 2x5 meltagun wielding acolytes and 2x jokaeros. Jump out of a chimera and reroll all hits, all wounds or both is just brutal.
I don't think I'd ever play them like that but I hope it stays as it is. Inquisition as a faction are barely playable these days so taking advantage of this to have a couple of free special weapons in your acolyte squads will go at least someway to mitigating that.
I'd be surprised if anyone is playing inquisition to min/max anyway...

I already have plans for a malleus warlord psyker jokaro who can throw paychic pursuit and convert his squad of acolytes to sniper plasmas. While an inquisitor gives the second squad a reroll 1 and the jokaro ofthethird grants random abilities tothem.

Oddly there is no limit on the number of times an inquisition warlord trait appears to be useable. Perhaps cause folk imagined its never going to be spammed, so for 2 cp you can end up with 2 psykers in a single inquisition detachment (one 2 cast, 2 deny, 3 spells) and the OTHER one only 1 cast of his spell.) Still, its pretty awesomely cool to imagine the jokaro brain and its hardwired psychic smite components pouring energy into the attack while the monkeigh screams "AT THEM MY PRETTIES" and turns their plasma guns up to 11.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ofcourse I was assemblingth models for this before the price hike which is simply a bonus on what i already expected.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Inquisition Acolytes are plain broken at 9 ppm with Special Weapons included...you can have 18 Plasma/Melta for 162 mere points and if you go with a Xeno Inquisitor you can also pay 3 CP to strategic reserve them all and have the Inquisitor cast Psychic Veil to turn give them old 8TH Character Protection (bonus if you also take another Inquisitor for Psychic Pursuit shenanigans)

I would wait to see if that's what GW actually intends before you start your conversions...

My bet is the intern they had typing up the datasheets didn't realise they had access to special weapons, which is why points weren't given.

Oh i actually was tryingto fi d 18 combi weapo s before this all started but only 1 per tac marine box quelle merde alors!

Don't bother my dudes, it'll be FAQ'd within two weeks.

Yeah, you are right -- but I was building them before the typo cause I actually want to run them. It seems the perfect thing to do with my deathfields conversions, since I now have something like 12 weapons already assembled that look like a modified plasma rifle, I can call those combil\plasmsa. Add in a monkey and inquisitor, and its a good little group even without the cheesy cheapness. Least I think so.

With the rules updates, can our armor lists be competitive now?

 Smotejob wrote:
With the rules updates, can our armor lists be competitive now?

Slightly better yes, competitive no...
Issues with guard and especially armor lists is fundamental. 9th is designed for movement and holding objectives not slow gunlines. Armor isn’t durable enough nor can they hold objectives. Troops aren’t fast or durable enough to secure them either. Even more durable vehicles such as knights struggle. Look at what armies are doing best in 9th... killer clowns, primarus, orks, DG...these armies rely on speed and troop durability
The good news is bullgryns got better

One thing I would like to hear the opinion of more experienced players about:
I do got it right, that barebones Multilaser Chimeras dropped from 85 points (?) to 65? That seems really cheap for a relatively big box of 10 T7 wounds. And with a Heavy Bolter Infantrysquad at 65 points, those two have almost the same output.
I wonder if there can be made something tactical out of using cheap chimeras as expendable "blocks" to hinder movement (and keep charge distances to more juicy stuff long), charge them into stuff just to keep it from shooting etc. At almost the price of an Infantry Squad they are no big loss, and can keep stuff they touch occupied longer than our 10 S3 dudes.

But I'm aware that they also count for bring it down (at least just 1 point, but still), so maybe this idea is dump. Any opinions?

I read it as Multilaser included, and hull heavy bolter or flamer is 10 points, makes barebones 75, still seems cheap, and good for blocking the board up

I read it as 65 with ML and Hull Bolter, + 10 when you want to switch the ML up to Bolter/Flamer.
Otherwise the Hull Bolter would be 10 instead of the usual 15, which would be odd. Also judging from the Hellhound, Basilisk and Hydra, Hull weapons are price included.

Hull weapons are only price included when the weapons don't have a points value.

So on Hellhounds, Basilisks, and Hydras they're price included.

On the Chimera they're not.
The fact that a Chimera's heavy flamer/bolter is slightly cheaper means that part of their cost is already included in the base chassis, but not all.
It's just a necessary factor based on how they're presenting points now. So barebones is 75.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Hull weapons are only price included when the weapons don't have a points value.

So on Hellhounds, Basilisks, and Hydras they're price included.

On the Chimera they're not.
The fact that a Chimera's heavy flamer/bolter is slightly cheaper means that part of their cost is already included in the base chassis, but not all.
It's just a necessary factor based on how they're presenting points now. So barebones is 75.

Don't think that's right. The way they present points now seems to be the minimal load out. So MultiLaser in the turret and Heavy Bolter/Flamer in the hull is 65pts, down from 85pts. You literally can't take anything more off it.
You can swap between HB and HF on the hull for free because they are the same price.
You can upgrade to HB or HF on the turret for 10pts because you've already paid 5 for the Multilaser.

80pts for twin heavy flamer chimeras with trackguards just seem ace for swarming objectives. Toast whatever's on the objective then charge it, hopefully survive combat, opponent has to either fall back or kill the chimera in combat. If they kill it you disembark with a unit of guardsmen who can hopefully hold the objective for the remainder of their turn and you control the objective at the start of your turn. If they don't kill it they get cooked again.

It's barebones 75 pts, the Designer Commentary specifies that

There aren't points listed for "swap X weapon for Y, +10pts", they use a different format.
They only list points for "for every weapon X, + 10pts" "[Y has no points value so is 0pts]".

@ KurtAngle2: ah, that clears that up. 75 is stilly pretty darn cheap for what it does. And as Abaddon says: Hellhounds are also nice at that price. But I'm in the most literal sense an armchair general and haven gotten any games yet. So my question remains: has anybody game experience, if using chimeras as expendable road blocks is a way to go? Does this have tactical value or is this idea a dead end and I should not waste time thinking it through?

Sure, they don't give you a price for the weapon you are swapping out, but it's clearly factored into the replacement cost.

Like armoured sentinel went up five points but includes the price of the multilaser which was a 5pt upgrade. To swap that for a lascannon it's 15pts which was a 20pt upgrade. They've discounted the cost of the ML.

It's the same for units that didn't just increase by their cheapest loadout. Chaos terminators get force weapons for free now (worth 5pts) but to upgrade it to a powerfist it's +5pts (powerfists are generally a 10pt upgrade.

It's pretty consistently like that throughout the new points system.

So I'm pretty sure the price value they give you for the HB on the Chimera is to upgrade the turret. The hull mounted HB is included in the 65pts.

Abaddon303 wrote:
Sure, they don't give you a price for the weapon you are swapping out, but it's clearly factored into the replacement cost.

Like armoured sentinel went up five points but includes the price of the multilaser which was a 5pt upgrade. To swap that for a lascannon it's 15pts which was a 20pt upgrade. They've discounted the cost of the ML.

It's the same for units that didn't just increase by their cheapest loadout. Chaos terminators get force weapons for free now (worth 5pts) but to upgrade it to a powerfist it's +5pts (powerfists are generally a 10pt upgrade.

It's pretty consistently like that throughout the new points system.

So I'm pretty sure the price value they give you for the HB on the Chimera is to upgrade the turret. The hull mounted HB is included in the 65pts.

No again

Makes one wonder if the new codex chimera will have 2 multilasers base.