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ArikTaranis wrote:
I'm now wondering if an Inquisitor with the esoteric lore WT (CP regen - 5+ per opponent strat) could be a play. Trouble is, it already costs a cp to bring it in with the trait, so at best you'll gain a cp each battle round for a net of +4. I think that's fairly unrealistic though, as he'd have to survive the whole game and be lucky enough to get a 5+ roll in each round. Maybe a net gain of 2cp is more realistic, in which case it might not be worth it.

Probably I'd bring it with the castigation psychic power for a targeted 'smite'. Might all be a bit niche for 60-70 points. Thoughts?

I think the problem you have is you might gain an avg of +2 but your unlikely to get that until later rounds when it doesn't matter. You also have less CP so that means Round 1-3 you only have 6-8 CP and thats going to limit the number of strats you can use to get the CP refunded.

U02dah4 wrote:

ArikTaranis wrote:
I'm now wondering if an Inquisitor with the esoteric lore WT (CP regen - 5+ per opponent strat) could be a play. Trouble is, it already costs a cp to bring it in with the trait, so at best you'll gain a cp each battle round for a net of +4. I think that's fairly unrealistic though, as he'd have to survive the whole game and be lucky enough to get a 5+ roll in each round. Maybe a net gain of 2cp is more realistic, in which case it might not be worth it.

Probably I'd bring it with the castigation psychic power for a targeted 'smite'. Might all be a bit niche for 60-70 points. Thoughts?

I think the problem you have is you might gain an avg of +2 but your unlikely to get that until later rounds when it doesn't matter. You also have less CP so that means Round 1-3 you only have 6-8 CP and thats going to limit the number of strats you can use to get the CP refunded.

This. I brought an Inquisitor for this one time even before the CPs went down and it was pretty underwhelming. Especially when opponents are going to be throwing around less stats anyway. Not terrible if you have another purpose for your Inquisitor but definitely not worth it just for farming.

The main thing I was useing the iq for was psychic secondaries but now we can multi faction secondary their not needed

Points are our seems a buff
-20pts triumph of Saint Katharine
-1pts per celestian
-2pts per celestian sacresant
-5pts on Penitent Engines
-2pts per Seraphim
-2pts per Zephyrim
-15pts per castigator
-10pts per exorcist
-10pts per immolator

Erjak will probably be happy at the Zephyrim that's quite a buff if you were spamming them

I think I'm dropping my domminion squad for another seraphim I might be tempted to run a Penitent engine and will definitely be dusting off my sacresants

I'm super happy about this. Was really hoping for 10ppm Battle Sisters, but I am going to be feasting on these changes regardless. Cheaper Seraphim, Zephyrim and Sacresants alone are going to be saving me like 50pts in my usual lists, even more than I was expecting. And if I feel like having fun and dust off an Exorcist, Immolator or the Triumph? Not going to sting as much as it used to. In fact, at 110-130pts and with Armour of Contempt I'd say the Immolator is making a case for itself now.

Not expecting any buffs for us in the Balance Dataslate tomorrow, but as long as we don't get a nerf then this should be plenty to tide us over.

I think the other point I'd consider is I was only losing games to TAU going first - and tyranids. Both of which got big nerfs. So it isn't just about our buffs. Only DG and BA really got buffed as much and neither was a challenge.

I just noticed that the Retributors' Simulacrum Imperialis went up to 5pts. Kind of funny since it's the one unit I'd consider putting one on, but probably won't bother now. For our only nerf though I'll take that any day.

I assume it was just missed off by accident last time but didn't matter enough to correct independently.

So now that we are seeing T9 Land Raiders and T8 Predators from the new Chaos Codex, I am really thinking that GW almost has to do at least a reprint of our codex when the SM 2.0 codex comes out. The Castigator has literally been said to be our version of a Predator, therefore I expect at least that tank to be going to T8. If the Exorcist goes back to T8 at least as well that would be great but I am not hopeful of that (please give us AP -3 anti-tank missiles back at least if this does happen).

Still though, just adding in Novitiates to the book and giving Armor of Contempt to most units along with the possible update to the Castigator I think warrants at least a reprint of our codex some point in early 2023. Maybe the Tale of the Stoic gets a look at too, but I would love just a few updates if SM 2.0 is actually going to make most non-Rhino vehicles T8.

Yeah I agree that it's pretty messy with all the rules tweaks now, but I doubt we'll get a reprint. I certainly wouldn't pay for another codex just because it was cleaned up and streamlined. And certainly gw should bring our vehicles into line, and I agree 100% about the exorcist missiles.

RE: chaos, I suppose some of our niche anti chaos abilities are going to be more in the spotlight. I'm thinking about the priest pseudo smite which does a flat 3 mortal wounds to chaos, and Ephrael Sterns similar anti chaos smite buff. Pay a cp and you can auto smite abaddon in whatever phase you choose, say the psychic phase, to chip away those wounds in separate phases. You'll have to be close to him, so it's a one shot thing before you get killed.

Actually on that note, does losing mortal wounds bypass the 'ignore damage from first failed save per turn' thing?

GFdoubles wrote:
So now that we are seeing T9 Land Raiders and T8 Predators from the new Chaos Codex, I am really thinking that GW almost has to do at least a reprint of our codex when the SM 2.0 codex comes out. The Castigator has literally been said to be our version of a Predator, therefore I expect at least that tank to be going to T8. If the Exorcist goes back to T8 at least as well that would be great but I am not hopeful of that (please give us AP -3 anti-tank missiles back at least if this does happen).

Still though, just adding in Novitiates to the book and giving Armor of Contempt to most units along with the possible update to the Castigator I think warrants at least a reprint of our codex some point in early 2023. Maybe the Tale of the Stoic gets a look at too, but I would love just a few updates if SM 2.0 is actually going to make most non-Rhino vehicles T8.

If anything it should go back to ap-4, it was ap1 in the old armor system for a looooong time

Well just had my first nephillim rtt (although unlike most RTT it was stacked with good players)

My novitatiate span got 97 vs SW 73vs WS and got nuked 43 by chaos knights going first on mission 11

Overall I found mission 11 to be an absolute nightmare with the new CP rules. It didn't help he had 3 of his armigers on two of my objectives on t2

Across 3 games

Sacred grounds scored 32
Leap scored 32
Defend the shrine scored 27 (With a 0 in one game vs chaos knights)

Interesting. Anything you'd do differently against the chaos knights? And what were your MVPs?

I'm not sure that list has an answer to knights the game roughly went knights t1 I remove 50 models - my t1 get no cp i move on to the two nearest objectives narrowly fail to kill his big knight due to bad damage rolls t2 he gets three armigers nudging my 2 objectives and I remove 50 more models my t2 get no cp kill his big knight and 2 armigers his t3 I'm basically tabled I have enough to gain a couple of leap points but that's about it

Mvp the 50 novitiates - fast at getting up to the objectives and then superb at delaying the enemy my opponent's wernt getting close to the shrine which is why it maxed except against knights ( hospitaliier with +3" +1Inv and minoris can't be wounded on 1,2 both really helping)

 warmaster21 wrote:


If anything it should go back to ap-4, it was ap1 in the old armor system for a looooong time

I agree completely with going back to AP -4 like it was at the start of 8th in the original Index and even in that atrocious beta codex (since AP -4 as you stated, correlates to AP 1 or at least it seems to be that way). However, I highly doubt we are ever seeing that again because getting 3d3 shots instead of d6 meant that it had to go down in AP as far as GW is concerned. Putting the missiles down to AP -2 though made NO sense. These are NOT krak missiles, Vahl's missile launcher is sure, but Exorcist missiles are literally "melta" level missiles that are made to crack armor. The Conflagration rockets are the anti-infantry option.

As far as a reprinted codex like I discussed, or whatever they end up doing, I really just feel like there are a few small things in our book that just do not feel like they should. Tale of the Stoic and the Exorcist are the two most glaring for me, but even Aestred Thurga, and one or two other things in the book probably need a second look. I am by no means saying we are weak, in fact according to Art of War we may very well be the top faction right now in the competitive scene, being the ONLY S tier army (which of course means we will be getting hit in a few months). However, for an edition that supposedly prides itself on :making things feel like they should on the tabletop" I would say there are definitely some questionable decisions GW made in our book. SM 2.0 should fix most of that problem with Marines, but if we get one that does the same thing, I will probably spend that money on a new book barely two years after the last one. Then again, I buy almost everything related to Sisters lol.

there are definitely small things id love to see changed. the exorcist missiles as noted in the previous posts. the nundums (and really all sisters vehicles) should get the artisan storm bolters. and nundum grenade launchers should just be cyclone missile launcher like vahl (or just a pair of krak missile launchers) it would at least make them useful and differentiate the carapace weapons better. the bolt pistol relic should be able to be taken on a seraphim superior (though personally id love to see relics/stratagems deleted from the game).

i feel like they are turning sisters into the Bretonnia of 40k. hell we even have the Grail Reliquae, the only thing we are missing is nuns on bikes for cavalry. if GW wants to stick with the awful priest system of 3+ to see if your unit you payed for does the thing you payed for, might as well just give us aspiring saints to channel the emperors light instead (and generic saint hq choice pls), hell the novitiates are basically knight errants.

I think at this point I would be better off reverse engineering my sisters into the horus herasy system which after reading the core book im liking alot better than 40k. reactions > stratagems by a large margin.

the only thing iv really liked out of modern sisters compared to the old witch hunter days is melee sisters which i always loved became a viable thing, zepharim iv wanted for a really long time.

Out of interest what relics and wl traits are people still taking?

 warmaster21 wrote:

Spoiler:

GFdoubles wrote:

 warmaster21 wrote:


If anything it should go back to ap-4, it was ap1 in the old armor system for a looooong time

I agree completely with going back to AP -4 like it was at the start of 8th in the original Index and even in that atrocious beta codex (since AP -4 as you stated, correlates to AP 1 or at least it seems to be that way). However, I highly doubt we are ever seeing that again because getting 3d3 shots instead of d6 meant that it had to go down in AP as far as GW is concerned. Putting the missiles down to AP -2 though made NO sense. These are NOT krak missiles, Vahl's missile launcher is sure, but Exorcist missiles are literally "melta" level missiles that are made to crack armor. The Conflagration rockets are the anti-infantry option.

As far as a reprinted codex like I discussed, or whatever they end up doing, I really just feel like there are a few small things in our book that just do not feel like they should. Tale of the Stoic and the Exorcist are the two most glaring for me, but even Aestred Thurga, and one or two other things in the book probably need a second look. I am by no means saying we are weak, in fact according to Art of War we may very well be the top faction right now in the competitive scene, being the ONLY S tier army (which of course means we will be getting hit in a few months). However, for an edition that supposedly prides itself on :making things feel like they should on the tabletop" I would say there are definitely some questionable decisions GW made in our book. SM 2.0 should fix most of that problem with Marines, but if we get one that does the same thing, I will probably spend that money on a new book barely two years after the last one. Then again, I buy almost everything related to Sisters lol.

there are definitely small things id love to see changed. the exorcist missiles as noted in the previous posts. the nundums (and really all sisters vehicles) should get the artisan storm bolters. and nundum grenade launchers should just be cyclone missile launcher like vahl (or just a pair of krak missile launchers) it would at least make them useful and differentiate the carapace weapons better. the bolt pistol relic should be able to be taken on a seraphim superior (though personally id love to see relics/stratagems deleted from the game).

i feel like they are turning sisters into the Bretonnia of 40k. hell we even have the Grail Reliquae, the only thing we are missing is nuns on bikes for cavalry. if GW wants to stick with the awful priest system of 3+ to see if your unit you payed for does the thing you payed for, might as well just give us aspiring saints to channel the emperors light instead (and generic saint hq choice pls), hell the novitiates are basically knight errants.

I think at this point I would be better off reverse engineering my sisters into the horus herasy system which after reading the core book im liking alot better than 40k. reactions > stratagems by a large margin.

the only thing iv really liked out of modern sisters compared to the old witch hunter days is melee sisters which i always loved became a viable thing, zepharim iv wanted for a really long time.

Convert them to Sigmar. The reactions system from HH is just a cheap knock-off of Sigmar's version of command points anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

U02dah4 wrote:
Out of interest what relics and wl traits are people still taking?

Burning Ire (for WOE and Rapturous only) and/or Chaplet of Sacrifice. That's pretty much it. If I'm not taking WOE or Rapturous, I take Righteous Rage on Morvenn.

So this is just me theory crafting/asking for advice a bit since I happen to be playing a guy who's newer to the game who also brings Sisters to most of his matchups (mostly OoML). We have played about 4 games of Sisters v Sisters so far with me winning 2, losing 1 and drawing 1 (though this was only because I thought Sacred Grounds could not be scored in the final turn and after talking it out and checking I realized I could and so would have easily won when that was completed at the end of the game since I was going 2nd). I have brought some EC and then some Bloody Rose to show him some different builds he can go for if he does not want to keep playing OoML but I think he is set on them right now. What I have noticed from all of these games is that our mirror matchup is actually more difficult than I realized, or maybe I am just not used to playing other Sisters in 9th since I have routinely been the only guy who plays them as my main army until now.

Does anyone have any advice for the mirror match in Nephilim? To be specific, over our last few games I have been pretty much handicapping myself in some way since he is a newer player. Often I deploy a little poorly in some way and then just give him first turn to see what he does (even though we have rolled just to see what would happen and I have gotten first turn in every game we have played pretty much), or I walk him through a pretty crucial turn, helping him understand what he should accomplish, and I also have given him some game deciding moves, such as in our last game when we tied he was between two possible moves on the board with Celestine and I suggested the one that ended up pretty much tying the game (though as I said there were some things with Sacred Grounds and a few other avenues to victory that we didn't actually play out but we talked through and it turned out that I would have probably won by doing any of them). We have pretty much been playing in the 1500-1850 points bracket since he is still building his collection, but despite knowing the army pretty well I would say I find myself struggling a bit more than I probably should. As another fact, I honestly barely play Bloody Rose armies, I have just never enjoyed playing that Order despite how good it is and I am only playing it against him as a way to learn it a bit better for a possible local tourney I might enter soon. Him playing OoML helps that since he is able to score so quickly on Leap usually that I am always playing catchup with all of my handicaps. This helps me learn that army better, and I don't feel as bad playing BR against him since OoML plays the secondary game so well.

Anyway, does anyone have any advice on how to deal with us in the mirror match? I have been playing a version of the list that won the Bay Area event a month or so ago, though of course without all the toys since we are playing at lower points. For the most part we have very similar builds I just bring more Repentia and Zephyrim while he ends up needing to use min squads of Arcos and the Penitent Engine just because they came in the combat patrol box. Sorry this got so long winded, I am just honestly amazed at how tough we are to beat even with ourselves, and I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how to better prepare for Sisters vs Sisters. I feel woefully overwhelmed when facing us for some reason, but maybe it's just because of all the handicaps I am giving myself, expecting my vaster experience from playing the game about a decade and a half longer than him to make up the difference. Any advice would be appreciated. I do plan on bringing the WoE Canoness (as I have done in other builds in the past) when we eventually start playing proper 2000 point games but as for right now I just do not have the room for it at our current points. Finally, I find my Repentia trading a bit more poorly than usual lately, and maybe it's just due to the fact I am not soaking overwatch with something first, but he has gotten so lucky on his overwatch lately it's wiping half of my squad before they get in. Again, probably a result of me always giving him first turn in our last 2 or 3 games where he can set up for their eventual charge and wipe out my Rhino and any other chargers before they are able to get into position despite me usually deploying at least THOSE units well enough.

I will tell you now that we have gotten several games in I will stop handicapping myself as much and probably start playing a bit more competitively than usual, since I think he may be getting a little too comfortable.

I would point out four points

1) A good list is built with a stratagy - a well built OOML list is built for board control as such it will spam units like novitiates and sacresants. A good BR on the other hand is going to have a stronger focus on things like zephyrim that stab the enemy. If your opponent is largely bringing a combat patrol box then they deserve to lose because its not a thought out considered army its a collection of what they have and so they fail at list building. Conversely you are building a list derived from a tourney list something a professional players has thought over.

2) even if they build a list competently those lists don't match up evenly one list is getting protection from rerolls which doesn't help much if your not running vahl due to low points and protection from MW spam which you are not using. The other is gaining bonus to A and bonus to AP both of which help. BR will therefore have the advantage. The compromise is to try minoris and take +1 to hit in the first round of combat and can only be wounded on 1.2 which will provide protection vs a number of choices you may make. You should be winning 95% of mirrors based on the above to facts alone

3) overwatch shouldnt be that deadly 20 Bolt gun shots is 3 hits 2 wounds 1.33 dead and they are burning large quantities of CP for the privaledge

4) Finally as in any game play the mission you should be getting 12 on Leap every mission you should be getting 12-15 on shrine most missions. The most common reason newer players lose missions especilly with a BR type list is they focus on killing the enemy and forget the game is really about the objectives.

U02dah4 wrote:
I would point out four points

1) A good list is built with a stratagy - a well built OOML list is built for board control as such it will spam units like novitiates and sacresants. A good BR on the other hand is going to have a stronger focus on things like zephyrim that stab the enemy. If your opponent is largely bringing a combat patrol box then they deserve to lose because its not a thought out considered army its a collection of what they have and so they fail at list building. Conversely you are building a list derived from a tourney list something a professional players has thought over.

2) even if they build a list competently those lists don't match up evenly one list is getting protection from rerolls which doesn't help much if your not running vahl due to low points and protection from MW spam which you are not using. The other is gaining bonus to A and bonus to AP both of which help. BR will therefore have the advantage. The compromise is to try minoris and take +1 to hit in the first round of combat and can only be wounded on 1.2 which will provide protection vs a number of choices you may make. You should be winning 95% of mirrors based on the above to facts alone

3) overwatch shouldnt be that deadly 20 Bolt gun shots is 3 hits 2 wounds 1.33 dead and they are burning large quantities of CP for the privaledge

4) Finally as in any game play the mission you should be getting 12 on Leap every mission you should be getting 12-15 on shrine most missions. The most common reason newer players lose missions especilly with a BR type list is they focus on killing the enemy and forget the game is really about the objectives.

Thank you for all of these points. I always aim to play the mission of course, and usually score pretty well on primary and decently on secondary, but I will say I have not been getting Leap to more than 10 usually because I try to save MD for key moments earlier in the game and then end up trying to catch up on it toward the end when I have killed most of my opponent's army by Turn 3 or 4. I completely agree with that assessment on BR players, as with only playing BR 3 times now I am still very focused on trying to kill/deny points instead of scoring my own, with the hope of scoring big in the later turns. That is a mindset I need to shift a bit definitely. This newer player definitely understands how to play OOML now despite not using Novitiates or Sacresants. He board controls in different ways with masses of deep strike and strategic reserves spearheaded by Celestine and then Vahl on the board as usual. I usually counter that with some good screening and then a deep strike of Zephyrim and Seraphim of my own, especially using this derivative of a tourney list. As I said our lists are usually very similar with Celestine and Vahl on both sides, a unit of Warsuits, the barebones BS squads, 2 squads of MM Rets, Dominions with SBs and then he uses more Seraphim while I use more Zephyrim as I said and then I usually bring more Repentia. Then things like Mortifiers on my side and a Pengine on his, a Rhino each, etc. As far as list construction goes he is definitely playing the less optimal one but he understands well how to score big in the early game to make it difficult for an opponent that can almost table him to catch up, which is something I have impressed upon him since we started. He had already come into the game with that mindset but I think I have helped him refine it over these last few games.

As for the Overwatch, it has honestly never been a problem this edition prior to my games against Sisters. Either I charge with a Rhino or something to soak it or do so with some other character that usually survives regardless of making the charge or not. However, I have been sending my Repentia into his warsuits lately (after wiping out 1 or 2 in shooting of course) and he usually has a 6 to make sure a melta goes through which is fine, I expect that, but then will score 4-8 6s to hit with Vahl's rerolls on them out of the 8-16 storm bolter shots. Then I usually just fail every FNP on the girls and all of a sudden I have 3-5 Repentia left lol. I plan on bringing a smaller missile of them soon, probably 5 or so like Jesse with his Bay Area list, I just have been trying to pull my punches up until now. As for why I am not using something to soak in these games, either my Rhino has been out of position or just dead on Turn 1 or 2, which I expect of course.

As I have said throughout all of this, I think the major factors as to why I am struggling a bit with this specific set of mirror matches are that I am relatively inexperienced with BR (though this is definitely the lesser of the factors) and that I have been purposely handicapping myself in some way, shape, or form to help teach him as much as possible. Going forward, especially as we play 2000 point games, I plan on playing normally without any handicaps. That alone should give me a better chance against ourselves, and also let me figure out BR more as I continue to get in game after game with them. He already agreed to be a bit of a sparring partner for me, allowing me to test the strongest list ideas I have (usually tournament winning derivative lists) on him since most of the rest of the crew at the FLGS would just consider me "that guy" if I brought BR every game.

What secondary's are people taking? I like Leap of faith and defend the shrine which both score well but I'm having trouble figuring out a good 3rd choice.

RND seems decent but rarely scores higher than 8.
And then there is the kill secondary's if your opponent gives one up.

But what is the general consensus for the 3rd option?

Gg doubles this takes me back to my argument with erjac reguarding beacon of faith being essential the extra disposable miracle dice is often the difference between a 10 and 12.

Leap is an auto 12

Shrine is an auto choice in every mission except Abandoned Sanctuaries and even then its still a solid choice pick the middle and hold it for the win

Sacred grounds is an auto take in any mission with two objectives just outside your deployment zone the only mission I don't want to take it on is abandoned Sanctuaries because of the limited number objectives and all being in the middle too far from your deployment zone so I take RND. If there is an obvious kill mission this is the one I drop but it has to be solid

While banners is fine also I struggle to argue for it when Sacred is an easy 11 and 15 when you dominate and banners is good often in the same missions Sacred is good

U02dah4 wrote:
Gg doubles this takes me back to my argument with erjac reguarding beacon of faith being essential the extra disposable miracle dice is often the difference between a 10 and 12.

Leap is an auto 12

Shrine is an auto choice in every mission except Abandoned Sanctuaries and even then its still a solid choice pick the middle and hold it for the win

Sacred grounds is an auto take in any mission with two objectives just outside your deployment zone the only mission I don't want to take it on is abandoned Sanctuaries because of the limited number objectives and all being in the middle too far from your deployment zone so I take RND. If there is an obvious kill mission this is the one I drop but it has to be solid

While banners is fine also I struggle to argue for it when Sacred is an easy 11 and 15 when you dominate and banners is good often in the same missions Sacred is good

Yea regarding the Beacon of Faith WT I did find yesterday that had I had one more MD in that final turn I would have been able to at least get 11 on Leap, definitely winning me the game. Though I also found that there was another scoring issue in that particular game so it turns out I had it on points regardless, just a messy game in general but it's to be expected with one of the players being newer.

Shrine I am finding is good but my shrine is often focused by my opponent the entire game, while I do the same to them in the mirror match so I have routinely been getting 6-9 at best at least against Sisters lol. Funnily enough the missions I played in that mirror match yesterday was Abandoned Sanctuaries and we both took Sacred Grounds. We both scored 6 on it, I can see it being bad in that mission but even on the other 5 objective missions it's usually an easy 6-11 points, but again a big part of that was in that final turn I should have had Celestine just do it and I would have scored 11 on it, again winning me that mission. Of course for normal games Shrine and Sacred Grounds are incredibly good for us!

The bottom line is that last game was good fun but definitely messy at best. We both did not realize that the 2nd primary mission only scores 2 regardless of how many conditions you satisfy so my opponent was scoring 4 points on certain turns. I was only ever scoring 2 anyway so it worked out on my end, and then at the end of the game I held the center so should have been scoring the full 7 I believe, again just winning it for the BR list. I know no 40k game will ever truly be perfect, but that last game had so many issues on scoring that I am glad we ended up calling it a draw lol. I guess with how many issues occurred in that Bay Area Open in that final game though I really can't complain, it even happens at the highest levels. I just hate when I mess things up so uch like that, I consider myself a better player than that usually.

OK, hope this doesn't end up being too long a post. As it stands, I'm really struggling to decide what to do with my sisters with the units I have. My original desire was to run Sacred Rose, and while I'm not opposed to doing that still, I just see them taking hit after hit without much bonus. AOC seems to hit their damage output as I was running lots of bodies therefore wanted to make the most out of bolter fire as possible (Divine Guidance SR, and Catechism of Repugnance, plus occasional Emperor's judgement for exploding 6s). These seem so lacklustre now since anything Ap-1 will just get ignored vs many armies, and limited CP does not make Emp judge worth it.

Now I could still stick with SR and maybe lean heavy into MW and MD, using Stern, Light of Agnathea relic, refrain of Blazing Piety hymn, and blessed Bolts, but the construction of the list is still challenging.

I have started looking more at VH for resilience, especially since I have quite a few vehicles which benefit from the loss of RR to wounds, whereas they don't really benefit from anything SR. Slapping the Sacred Right "Light of the Emp" on VH makes them pretty resilient and less likely to lose much to morale (so Sacred Rose light basically).

BR of course is also a favourite, but my army does not lean into the units that really make it shine (no zeph, just 12 repentia, 5 sacresants, etc).

OOML and AS have zero interest for me, and not sure on EC either. I'd prefer to stick with SR or maybe switch to VH based upon my current model collection. Not opposed to buying more but would like to use what I have too. really just looking how to configure my block of sisters into their relevant slots (battle sisters, dominions, retributors, etc)

Currently looking at

pretty much all HQ options except Triumph which I planned to get when i finish painting as a centerpiece. Cannonesses armed with either Blessed blade/pp/rod, Brazier and chainsword, or relic chainsword and pistol.
Hospitaller and Dialogus (no Dogmata, but easy to convert)
About 50-60 sisters with mixed weaponry. Includes 4 ASB, 4 MM, 4 HB, 4 HF, 2 flamer, 2 melta, 5 simulacrum, etc. Really DO NOT want to have an army that runs 3x5 bare bones battle sisters. Obviously the above can be broken into dominions and Retributors as well as sister squads.
2x5 seraphim (2 dual HF, 2 dual inferno although my group kosher with counting these as HF too)
5 sacrecants (halberd and spear)
3 patragon suits (MM/mace on sup, 2x HF/sword on others)
12 repentia plus superior
Exorcist
2 immolators
Rhino (not opposed to another)

No castigator currently.

ideally looking for a list that has a decent number of sister bodies, and uses all 4 of the vehicles I own. One possibility would be, for example,...
Exorcist
2x6 rets (2MM, 1 HF, simulacrum) in Immolators
10 dominions w 4 ASB in rhino (or 10 repentia)
3x10 sisters on foot (not sure on loadouts)

I can certainly run a 20 girl squad with the 4 ASB too.

Anyway, that's where I'm at currently, and just wondering which Order to lean into with my current collection. It's doing my head in, lol.

Order wise I would say there are two good choices competitively

1) BR

2) Minoris - VH struggles in that it buffs defensively in some match ups but its very much based on your opponent's list if they arnt spamming rerolls or MW it does little. So can't be wounded on 1,2 is often the better defense buff


However your list doesn't have the models to play the defensive game so BR is probably your best bet

 bullyboy wrote:
OK, hope this doesn't end up being too long a post. As it stands, I'm really struggling to decide what to do with my sisters with the units I have. My original desire was to run Sacred Rose, and while I'm not opposed to doing that still, I just see them taking hit after hit without much bonus. AOC seems to hit their damage output as I was running lots of bodies therefore wanted to make the most out of bolter fire as possible (Divine Guidance SR, and Catechism of Repugnance, plus occasional Emperor's judgement for exploding 6s). These seem so lacklustre now since anything Ap-1 will just get ignored vs many armies, and limited CP does not make Emp judge worth it.

Now I could still stick with SR and maybe lean heavy into MW and MD, using Stern, Light of Agnathea relic, refrain of Blazing Piety hymn, and blessed Bolts, but the construction of the list is still challenging.

I have started looking more at VH for resilience, especially since I have quite a few vehicles which benefit from the loss of RR to wounds, whereas they don't really benefit from anything SR. Slapping the Sacred Right "Light of the Emp" on VH makes them pretty resilient and less likely to lose much to morale (so Sacred Rose light basically).

BR of course is also a favourite, but my army does not lean into the units that really make it shine (no zeph, just 12 repentia, 5 sacresants, etc).

OOML and AS have zero interest for me, and not sure on EC either. I'd prefer to stick with SR or maybe switch to VH based upon my current model collection. Not opposed to buying more but would like to use what I have too. really just looking how to configure my block of sisters into their relevant slots (battle sisters, dominions, retributors, etc)

Currently looking at

pretty much all HQ options except Triumph which I planned to get when i finish painting as a centerpiece. Cannonesses armed with either Blessed blade/pp/rod, Brazier and chainsword, or relic chainsword and pistol.
Hospitaller and Dialogus (no Dogmata, but easy to convert)
About 50-60 sisters with mixed weaponry. Includes 4 ASB, 4 MM, 4 HB, 4 HF, 2 flamer, 2 melta, 5 simulacrum, etc. Really DO NOT want to have an army that runs 3x5 bare bones battle sisters. Obviously the above can be broken into dominions and Retributors as well as sister squads.
2x5 seraphim (2 dual HF, 2 dual inferno although my group kosher with counting these as HF too)
5 sacrecants (halberd and spear)
3 patragon suits (MM/mace on sup, 2x HF/sword on others)
12 repentia plus superior
Exorcist
2 immolators
Rhino (not opposed to another)

No castigator currently.

ideally looking for a list that has a decent number of sister bodies, and uses all 4 of the vehicles I own. One possibility would be, for example,...
Exorcist
2x6 rets (2MM, 1 HF, simulacrum) in Immolators
10 dominions w 4 ASB in rhino (or 10 repentia)
3x10 sisters on foot (not sure on loadouts)

I can certainly run a 20 girl squad with the 4 ASB too.

Anyway, that's where I'm at currently, and just wondering which Order to lean into with my current collection. It's doing my head in, lol.

Not exactly sure how competitive you want to be but I would honestly say that running a Minoris Order of some kind would be good for you if you want something like SR or VH but think that actually playing with either of those Convictions or Stratagems won't help you much in your games. I agree that right now most AP -1 is just not worth it because of the many AoC armies like loyalist or chaos marines that always run rampant. I personally have been running my Minoris Order with "Guided By the Emperor's Will" and "Righteous Suffering" (which I know the post above specifically recommends). I mostly use this setup for Crusade games but have found some limited success with it in standard Eternal War missions and even Tempest of War games as well, so playing Minoris Orders can be fun as well as effective!

If you want to go BR there is nothing wrong with that of course, but I also want to make sure you are having fun with your collection! I personally really do not enjoy playing BR and have only played it over my past few games because I am debating entering a tourney soon and know that if I want to do well I really should at least think about running my collection as that Order. Maybe try a few of the Minoris Order traits and find two that really make you feel like you are still playing SR but more effective or something like that. I also have had some real success with the 20 girl blob of Sisters with the 4 ASB, Hospitaller, Dogmata, the "Defenders of the Faith" Strat and of course Vahl. Obviously this is not the most optimal choice but it can put some real pain out as long as you keep it pretty intact over the first turn or two!

Hope you find a way to play with your collection soon, I would suggest just trying everything you have discussed a bit and then see what you enjoy the most!

GFdoubles wrote:


Not exactly sure how competitive you want to be but I would honestly say that running a Minoris Order of some kind would be good for you if you want something like SR or VH but think that actually playing with either of those Convictions or Stratagems won't help you much in your games. I agree that right now most AP -1 is just not worth it because of the many AoC armies like loyalist or chaos marines that always run rampant. I personally have been running my Minoris Order with "Guided By the Emperor's Will" and "Righteous Suffering" (which I know the post above specifically recommends). I mostly use this setup for Crusade games but have found some limited success with it in standard Eternal War missions and even Tempest of War games as well, so playing Minoris Orders can be fun as well as effective!

If you want to go BR there is nothing wrong with that of course, but I also want to make sure you are having fun with your collection! I personally really do not enjoy playing BR and have only played it over my past few games because I am debating entering a tourney soon and know that if I want to do well I really should at least think about running my collection as that Order. Maybe try a few of the Minoris Order traits and find two that really make you feel like you are still playing SR but more effective or something like that. I also have had some real success with the 20 girl blob of Sisters with the 4 ASB, Hospitaller, Dogmata, the "Defenders of the Faith" Strat and of course Vahl. Obviously this is not the most optimal choice but it can put some real pain out as long as you keep it pretty intact over the first turn or two!

Hope you find a way to play with your collection soon, I would suggest just trying everything you have discussed a bit and then see what you enjoy the most!

Yeah, I don't expect to play my sisters competitively but they certainly will be used in matched play scenarios, along with narrative etc. My original plan when I started building the list was to play a "war of the roses" list with the bulk of the sisters in a Sacred Rose battalion plus a detachment of Bloody Rose which would emphasize the close combat elements of the list. Obviously that has changed a lot with the change in rules regarding singular order choices. I can certainly play some BR in the future (if I add some more sacresants and perhaps some zeph) but probably not going to lean into them just now. It seems outside of BR, the Order choice doesn't seem to matter that much and how you manage your MD, CP, and character blessings makes more of a difference. I may try some of the Minoris rules out too since there are very few WTs, relics that are Order locked that seem to be outstanding.
Appreciate the feedback.

U02dah4 wrote:

2) even if they build a list competently those lists don't match up evenly one list is getting protection from rerolls which doesn't help much if your not running vahl due to low points and protection from MW spam which you are not using. The other is gaining bonus to A and bonus to AP both of which help. BR will therefore have the advantage. The compromise is to try minoris and take +1 to hit in the first round of combat and can only be wounded on 1.2 which will provide protection vs a number of choices you may make. You should be winning 95% of mirrors based on the above to facts alone.

I know the conversation moved on a bit from this, but I think you confused Valorous Heart for Order of our Martyred Lady in this point. VH disables wound rerolls and providers a 5+ wound shrug on mortal wounds. I believe the poster's friend was playing Martyred Lady, who instead gain a miracle dice at the end of any phase in which one of their units were destroyed, and +1 to hit for any unit below starting strength.

What you said about VH is insightful and accurate though.

 Vilgeir wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:

2) even if they build a list competently those lists don't match up evenly one list is getting protection from rerolls which doesn't help much if your not running vahl due to low points and protection from MW spam which you are not using. The other is gaining bonus to A and bonus to AP both of which help. BR will therefore have the advantage. The compromise is to try minoris and take +1 to hit in the first round of combat and can only be wounded on 1.2 which will provide protection vs a number of choices you may make. You should be winning 95% of mirrors based on the above to facts alone.

I know the conversation moved on a bit from this, but I think you confused Valorous Heart for Order of our Martyred Lady in this point. VH disables wound rerolls and providers a 5+ wound shrug on mortal wounds. I believe the poster's friend was playing Martyred Lady, who instead gain a miracle dice at the end of any phase in which one of their units were destroyed, and +1 to hit for any unit below starting strength.

What you said about VH is insightful and accurate though.

Yea I noticed this during the conversation too, but I understood the point. The bottom line is there is a reason that Bloody Rose is head and shoulders above the other Major Orders right now and my opponent is playing their OoML list excellently regarding our secondaries despite playing a less optimal Order and being relatively new to the faction (that and, as I said, I have been telling him tactically what moves to make usually in order to have the best chance of winning or drawing the game). My inexperience with Bloody Rose has been showing in these last few games too and I am too focused on wiping units while denying my opponent points instead of just scoring more of my own secondary objectives (Leap, Shrine, and Sacred Grounds usually). I will be playing my buddy again soon and I have already told him I am going all out this time, playing my best and not helping him nearly as much as I have been over the last few games. That combined with at least three games of BR lists under my belt should help me best whatever list he comes up with now. I am determined to at least get better at playing BR in case I do enter some local tournaments soon.

Thanks for pointing this out though!