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Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






Overall I am enjoying SNW my only concern is that they will focus to much on Spock. I like Spock but he isn't the center of the ST universe.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

 Ahtman wrote:
Overall I am enjoying SNW my only concern is that they will focus to much on Spock. I like Spock but he isn't the center of the ST universe.



They've been trying to make him the center lately by cramming him everywhere, even if he doesn't belong. I really would hope that the other cast members get more time to grow. I've just finished episode 5 and I'm really not super happy with where some of the characters are, compared to others.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It's the same issue the Abrams films suffered from. Where McCoy hardly appears as more than a footnote; Kirk is just being childish the entire time* and Spock is the glorious best of the entire bridge crew.




* and seems to only be in the positions he's in because other people around him keep "seeing his potential" and putting him in key roles. Rather than him actually doing things.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Orville:
Spoiler:
Welp, ain’t even gonna try and discuss this episode because of the politics ban on Dakka…


Strange New Worlds:
Spoiler:
Fun episode, but I don’t really care for this sudden dues ex ending to the daughter storyline. Just kind of springs up out of nowhere. The years in seconds thing is also kind of a cop out for instant gratification.

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



South East London

I'm a big fan of The Orville but, without going into detail, that was a pretty clumsy, heavy handed, allegory which I think wasn't really necessary for the story they were trying to tell.

Usually the writing is a bit better than this.

That's not to say it was a bad episode, I just think including "real world" events in Sci-Fi is better when it's subtle and more, well, allegorical....

But not bad, I just think earlier episodes in the first and second season pulled this off in a much more nuanced way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/24 09:20:37


"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Eh, I don’t think it was Too heavy handed. There were a lot of details and incidents they could have easily added to drive the point further home. As it was they largely went with one really broad stroke.

 
   
Made in gb
Revving Ravenwing Biker



Wrexham, North Wales

I haven't seen the latest Orville: New Horizons yet, but I was disappointed with Mortality Paradox. (Good name for a band composed of Orville fans). They literally walked through the episode before being patronised by a god-like being. A textbook example of the worst sci-fi tv.

Orville is better when it is slightly subverting Star Trek, but here it seemed to just be copying it.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






MarkNorfolk wrote:
I haven't seen the latest Orville: New Horizons yet, but I was disappointed with Mortality Paradox. (Good name for a band composed of Orville fans). They literally walked through the episode before being patronised by a god-like being. A textbook example of the worst sci-fi tv.

Orville is better when it is slightly subverting Star Trek, but here it seemed to just be copying it.


Yeah, I thought that one was a really mediocre episode. Didn’t really grow the characters or the setting that much. Just a bunch of really random stuff and then the monologue.

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



South East London

I have noticed that Brannon Braga seems to be writing a lot of the more recent episodes? That's not a bad thing, but I feel Season 3 has lost a lot of what made The Orville unique and it does seem to be just turning into Star Trek: The Orville.

"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I’m disappointed its losing a lot of its humor. I don’t need it to be constantly silly goofy, but it’s swung too far the other way with hardly any jokes per episode. My overall opinion of the show is diminishing this season.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

A weird episode. Some good acting but I think resolving one of the Tragic Starfleet Character Backstory MotivationsTM in the first couple of episodes was a mistake. Imagine if Worf had worked out his daddy issues completely before the fugitive klingons attempted to hijack the Enterprise.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






This episode was very fun - the actors are all having fun hamming it up (even the ones that weren't brainwashed by a god nebula) and it was a good twist on the 'weird planet with a specific earth theme' or 'holodeck run amuck' episodes from the TOS and TNG eras, respectively. And then they had to spoil it all with an ending that hit me right in the kidneys.

Spoiler:
This seems like such a waste after having M'Benga get vital information to research this cure in the previous episode.


I can only conclude that there's going to be some continuation of this plot thread, somehow. I haven't heard anything about Babs Olusanmokun leaving the show and don't really see any reason to need to resolve this aspect of the character just yet.

Fun observations:
Spoiler:
I don't know if they did a slow pan over that book previously, but this is the first time I noticed the book Dr. M'Benga reads to his daughter is written by Benny Russell!

Ortegas being upset over Una not calling her was the biggest, meatiest bit of character development she's had all season and it was a different persona occupying her body of which all memory was erased at the end of the episode.

I was initially surprised to see Bruce Horak was so brilliantly physical in his comedy this episode - which prompted me to look him up and discover he's a stage actor who was widely celebrated for his role in Evil Dead the Musical. The more you know.

Until otherwise noted, Anson Mount can do no wrong here. Like the rest of the cast he's clearly having a blast hamming it up as a snivelling, scheming coward.

Did Number 1 murder three redshirts (excuse me, Crimson Guards) with a bow and arrow? Everyone woke up after the event with no memory of it happening, are they back alive? Are there just three dead red shirts in a hallway somewhere?

   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






They were each only hit in the shoulder which is Clearly just a harmless flesh wound!

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

And the doctor clearly didn't give a feth about that happening literally in front of him either, lol. I was expecting him to adminster some basic first aid before leaving but nope.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Harmless Flesh Wounds!

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 AduroT wrote:
Harmless Flesh Wounds!


Wrong thread/scifi. You're thinking Star Wars/Kenobi where everyone walks off lightsabers to the chest.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






No one walks off a lightsaber to the chest, they walk off lightsabers to the stomach, which like the shoulder is another place with nothing important and results in harmless flesh wounds. You only die if you get hit in the center of the chest, where your heart is located.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 AduroT wrote:
No one walks off a lightsaber to the chest, they walk off lightsabers to the stomach, which like the shoulder is another place with nothing important and results in harmless flesh wounds. You only die if you get hit in the center of the chest, where your heart is located.


Alas, if only someone had told Qui Gon of this important fact then the fate of the galaxy would have been much different! Not that M'Benga would have cared though...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 22:39:05


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Orville:
Spoiler:
Dour. They do add some more humor into the episode in a few spots, and spend a weird amount of time mentioning the long dead race and archaeological sub sub plot for something that didn’t seem to really have any effect on the main story or cast. Still, it was really down trodden for most of the episode. Ends on a higher point though, but that’s likely to be a very political opinion. Bonus points for getting to hear Bortus sing after previous episode/s talk about it.


Strange New Worlds:
Spoiler:
Gorn! I was really curious what they’d do with them with the enhanced effects budget and technology vs TOS so I really hope we get to see them this time! (finger on the monkey paw closes) Dear sweet jesus this is horrifying please put it back! They are Really building up the capabilities of these things. Invisible to scanners and telepaths, super lethal+ spit, “we’re lucky these are babies, one adult and we wouldn’t stand a chance”. I’m curious to see how the Gorn stuff resolves in the end that they’re not a such a giant threat in later series. When they introduced two new characters in the beginning I don’t recall seeing before I had a bunch they were Gorn food. Hemmer though? They get massive negative bonus points for killing him off. He was really interesting as a character.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 AduroT wrote:

Strange New Worlds:
Spoiler:
Gorn! I was really curious what they’d do with them with the enhanced effects budget and technology vs TOS so I really hope we get to see them this time! (finger on the monkey paw closes) Dear sweet jesus this is horrifying please put it back! They are Really building up the capabilities of these things. Invisible to scanners and telepaths, super lethal+ spit, “we’re lucky these are babies, one adult and we wouldn’t stand a chance”. I’m curious to see how the Gorn stuff resolves in the end that they’re not a such a giant threat in later series. When they introduced two new characters in the beginning I don’t recall seeing before I had a bunch they were Gorn food. Hemmer though? They get massive negative bonus points for killing him off. He was really interesting as a character.


Agreed. I think that character was the most interesting and would have been my last choice to redshirt. I'm also not a fan of the STD'ing of Kirk in this either..

Spoiler:
turning him into an emotional spoiled brat who loses his cool and panics at the drop of a hat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 00:56:48


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






To be fair, we’ve really seen very little of Kirk, and if there was a time to suddenly panic, it was that.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 AduroT wrote:
To be fair, we’ve really seen very little of Kirk, and if there was a time to suddenly panic, it was that.


I wouldn't call that first part a defense since this is probably the most screen time he's gotten and he was about as calm and collected of a starfleet officer as a TNG insane or delirious patient extra. Also, life and death is the bread and butter of Starfleet experience in episodes. I could have understood a single short outburst cut short by a stern look from Pike but not multiple. YMMV. Regardless, the indignity of that pales in comparison to

Spoiler:
killing the most interesting (IMO) new character in SNW and the only truly alien one with a gorn ejaculation. Seriously.


That's literally 80's pron parody plot quality combined with very poor decision making. Were they trying to save money on makeup because they needed the miniscule budget for Spock's ears and Pike's pompadour?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 13:14:37


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Spoiler:
Personally, I didn't like them turning the Gorn into not-Xenomorphs from Aliens. Complete with the chestbursting. How do we go from these agile apex predators into the big slow lizard man that Captain Kirk fights in "Arena"? I get that the look can obviously be improved from the guy in the rubber suit in TOS, but they didn't need to fundamentally change how they behave. Just create a new alien race that behaves that way(it's a big galaxy after all) instead of changing an existing one. Almost as bad as the Klingon changes in Discovery.

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 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Yeah, I'd have preferred if they had kept them something remotely similar but unfortunately the ENT episode with them and the 2009 video game tie in have "reshaped" the monster of the week. I suspect they just wanted to make sure it tied into yet another Tragic Starfleet BackstoryTM that they wanted to hurry up and resolve (two in a row now). The funny thing is that I was actually liking the character that walked off in spite of the backstory and lineage that really turned me off initially.

Spoiler:
Quick edit... just to be clear.. I'm not wanting a return to pure giant rubber suit gorn specifically though I wonder if the alien protecting the girl was a quality nod to that now that I'm typing. Maybe some sort of combo of live action augmented with special effects instead like motion capture with a real stunt person then CGI'ed over instead or augmented. I did like the alien protector though. That's the kind of alien that I was hoping the bigger streaming budget would allow them to add to the crew but instead they kill off the only alien whose transformation is more extensive than five minute LOTR fan cosplay.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 15:33:04


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





United States

And just like that, Kurtzman came in and jizzed all over the show. The first five episodes were great, minor gripes aside. These last three have been awful.

Personally, I'm moving on from this franchise.

All Good Things, after all.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Holy gak that was a heavy Orville episode. That being said, I think it would do a lot of people a lot of good to watch it.
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Gert wrote:
Holy gak that was a heavy Orville episode. That being said, I think it would do a lot of people a lot of good to watch it.


I liked it quite a bit, and I remember I liked the "original" one a lot too.

As to SNW... hm. I mean, it was alright, but it was basically Alien on Star Trek, which I don't think I really like. Also the engineer was one of the highlights of the series, and they lose him and la'an both... hm.

That said, I personally like SNW. An episodic series has understandably their highs and lows, but at the very least you're not grid locked to a single narrative, which you might hate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/02 20:04:00


 
   
Made in ca
Rampaging Carnifex





Toronto, Ontario

I actually really liked this week's episode of SNW, but I completely understand why it's so off putting to some of the fans. Yes, it's highly derivative of Alien. You can't really get the sort of diplomatic/scientific resolution that a lot of Trek dilemmas end up getting solved by, but that's sorta why I really dug it. I wouldn't want episodes like this to be the norm by any means, but every now and then it's fun to see the crew deal with something so alien (ha!) that they can't reverse shield polarity their way out of a crisis. I'm really sad about who they axed at the end though, I really wanted to get to know him better.
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






 ZergSmasher wrote:
Spoiler:
Personally, I didn't like them turning the Gorn into not-Xenomorphs from Aliens. Complete with the chestbursting. How do we go from these agile apex predators into the big slow lizard man that Captain Kirk fights in "Arena"? I get that the look can obviously be improved from the guy in the rubber suit in TOS, but they didn't need to fundamentally change how they behave. Just create a new alien race that behaves that way(it's a big galaxy after all) instead of changing an existing one. Almost as bad as the Klingon changes in Discovery.


I feel like I'm beating up on TOS a lot when I say this, but it's important to understand that it is a 1960s TV show and its ability to depict alien monsters was constrained by certain factors.

That said...
Spoiler:
the rubber suit Gorn is no less an apex predator within the confines of that era and budget. For all we joke about its lumbering around, it nearly kills Kirk immediately in close combat, and it shrugs off having multiple rocks (very real rocks in the context of that story) smashed over its head with minimal effect.


Overall I felt this episode was fine. I like the premise, I like the execution, but as others have said, there are a few distinct, really glaring problems:

Spoiler:

Why kill Hemmer? Maybe Bruce Horak wanted to leave the show? Maybe the makeup and the hours was a problem? Maybe he got another offer he couldn't pass up? Maybe it was always the plan to have Uhura's mentor die but leave her with parting words that inspire her? I don't know why, but I strongly feel they undercut themselves by killing off such a likeable character so early on.

Why kill Hemmer that way? Nevermind them feeling the need to kill him off at all instead of hedge their bets and have him go away for an extended leave like they did with La'an - the episode presents multiple opportunities to kill him off that would work better thematically or without falling back on the reproduction through spit thing: The spit could have just been acid, he could have had to grab the Gorn and hold it under that cold mist, he could have shocked the audience by throwing himself into harms way to protect No-Longer-Ensign Duke; and all of these could have presented him with an opportunity to, in his final moments clinging to life, tell Uhura the exact same thing about how she can be brave and open up more.

La'an leaving the ship - I'm not sure why they felt the need to do this here, and while my gut instinct is to point to Discovery's annoying tendency to flip a coin when an actor leaves the show to decide whether they're allowed to come back at a later date or die horribly in a fire, SNW has racked up too many good boy points with me so I'm willing to hope that this is going to have some kind of payoff early on in season 2.

Beyond that...

The episode is otherwise fine, well shot and directed, excellent use of pre-existing sets, frequently creepy. But really only ever gets up to 'fine' - this is Perez' second writing credit on the show and while I personally didn't mind that his previous episode was a little derivative, I do mind it here.

I've seen some complaining about the Gorn being invisible to scanners, this is actually in keeping with Enterprise, of all things.

This is the first time we've seen Sam Kirk crack under pressure, but then again it's also the first time we've really seen him under pressure. The things he says to Spock aren't really out of line from what we'd see Bones say to him, but they hit different to a modern audience. Notably, Dr. Pulaski spoke to Data much the same way in TNG, and people hated her for it. I can't tell if they were trying for a Bones/Spock rapport here or if they're trying to lay the groundwork for why Sam is out of Starfleet entirely by the time Jim is captaining the Enterprise.

The Peregrine is weirdly in keeping with TOS' use of the Enterprise model to represent different ships: it's very clearly a Constitution with very few minor tweaks and they even call attention to that in the dialogue. I'm curious what this says about TOS era starship design and would like to know more please.

We had a Star Wars alien making a guest role in Star Trek, RIP Buckley.

   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Apparently his character was fated to die from the start. They told Bruce during audition that he would be killed off, but not how.

 
   
 
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