Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Just the arbitrary geographic restrictions to go GW....
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I don't really get it... how have people been able to sell through online carts all this time then? Has this policy only been in place in NA? Or is it because they have had physical locations as well? If so, what's the change, can online-only retailers sell GW now?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/15 18:25:55
They don't. Americans have to email and request their orders.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I don't know of many shops with online carts in the US. Usually you have to order via some kind of spreadsheet form or something to get around the policy.
Azreal13 wrote: They don't. Americans have to email and request their orders.
That's positively draconian. Sounds very much like Kirby. But why only in NA?
Because I'm pretty sure it's illegal everywhere else! Plus I'm not sure they can specify a maximum discount like that, flirting dangerously with price fixing. It should be a retailer's right to sell at whatever price they see fit, and this is a blatant conflict of interests as GW sell direct at 0 discount.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Retailers do have the right to sell at whatever price they see fit. GW has the right to stop selling to retailers that undermine the value of their product.
Azreal13 wrote: They don't. Americans have to email and request their orders.
That's positively draconian. Sounds very much like Kirby. But why only in NA?
Because I'm pretty sure it's illegal everywhere else! Plus I'm not sure they can specify a maximum discount like that, flirting dangerously with price fixing. It should be a retailer's right to sell at whatever price they see fit, and this is a blatant conflict of interests as GW sell direct at 0 discount.
Not quite. In America, there is something called Universal Minimum Retail Price (UMRP) that certain products qualify under that is basically an agreement between the manufacturer and the vendor preventing the vendor from selling the product below a specific price. It was created to prevent large retailers like Walmart, Amazon, etc. from being able to undercut smaller retailers on high-value items, but it is occasionally exploited by manufacturers to artificially keep prices high. I'm not saying this is specifically the case with GW's maximum discount, but it would likely fall in the same legal area.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
LunarSol wrote: Retailers do have the right to sell at whatever price they see fit. GW has the right to stop selling to retailers that undermine the value of their product.
Of course, as has always been the case, but there's a world of difference between doing it covertly and overtly, such as specifying it in the t's and c's.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
FFG, PP, and SteamForge all use it. I'm sure there are plenty of others. I believe its also used in most electronic entertainment these days to some degree.
Azreal13 wrote: They don't. Americans have to email and request their orders.
That's positively draconian. Sounds very much like Kirby. But why only in NA?
Because I'm pretty sure it's illegal everywhere else! Plus I'm not sure they can specify a maximum discount like that, flirting dangerously with price fixing. It should be a retailer's right to sell at whatever price they see fit, and this is a blatant conflict of interests as GW sell direct at 0 discount.
Not quite. In America, there is something called Universal Minimum Retail Price (UMRP) that certain products qualify under that is basically an agreement between the manufacturer and the vendor preventing the vendor from selling the product below a specific price. It was created to prevent large retailers like Walmart, Amazon, etc. from being able to undercut smaller retailers on high-value items, but it is occasionally exploited by manufacturers to artificially keep prices high. I'm not saying this is specifically the case with GW's maximum discount, but it would likely fall in the same legal area.
Well what do you know..
Wikipedia wrote:On June 28, 2007, the Supreme Court overruled Dr. Miles, discussed above, holding that such vertical price restraints as Minimum Advertised Pricing are not per se unlawful but, rather, must be judged under the "rule of reason." Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc., 551 U.S. 877 (2007). This marked a dramatic shift on how attorneys and enforcement agencies address the legality of contractual minimum prices and essentially allowed the reestablishment of resale price maintenance in the United States in most (but not all) commercial situations.
You know America, for the largest capitalist economy in the world, some of your trade laws are pretty dumb!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
People seem to think gw is the big evil company forcing distributors to keep prices high for themselves. This is way off. Gw makes the same amount regardless how much a vendor (online or brick and mortar) sells thier retail product. distributors automatically get ~30-40% discount. This policy of setting the markdown to a specific amount is there to protect brick and mortar stores who need the higher markup to justify shelfspace and stay in business. If gw didn't use this tactic which most game companies do as well. Then 40k will be an online purchased only game with a lot less marketing.
This is a great step into building 40k community again. Btw is this policy is written like asmodee policy which I assume it is in order to follow legal issues then online stores are allowed to have sales above 15% as well. They just can't keep the standard markdown above 15% for an extended time. They can also do other tactics like free shipping and purchase credit point based systems that essentially give you cash back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/15 19:07:27
GW also sell in the retail channel, enforcing maximum discounts is in their own self interest.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
The age of 25-30% off products if bought online has been coming to a close this year. Many sides to the argument. You still get some kind of discount so that something.
The big focus that FFG and PP among others have already done is it is to support your FLGS also. Or at the least has a positive side effect for them.
Good for the gaming community as a whole to keep it going.
Though if you don't have a FLGS then you are just SOL
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Given the headline of the article is "GW Repeals Online Shopping Cart Ban For American Retailers"... no.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
It was to stop their products being sold for less and 'devaluing them' (ie making it more difficult for them to keep prices and revenue artificially high). Lots of manufacturers try to do it. Not legal to set fixed/min prices in the UK, but people get round it in other ways, such as Apple not supplying if you discount, etc.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/15 19:24:30
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
actually GW cannot specify a maximum discount legally in the uk. There are restrictions in place that effect them that are not so common because they are Manufacturer,Distributor and Retailer all in one.
It is because of these that for example Forgeworld is not sold in GW stores. GW for a short period sold FW books in store however they suddenly stopped overnight. This was because a flgs pointed out that because of the postion they cannot show preference or advantage to there own stores, as such anything sold in a GW store has to be available by them as a distributor to a flgs.
This is why no FW in stores and there suddenly became a big chunk of direct order only stock because GW loves a legal way to screw flgs.
Same type of thing with prices and discounts as long as GW keeps the trinity they cannot as a Manufacturer or Distributor impose terms on flgs to benefit there retail arm.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
JohnnyHell wrote: It was to stop their products being sold for less and 'devaluing them' (ie making it more difficult for them to keep prices and revenue artificially high). Lots of manufacturers try to do it. Not legal to set fixed/min prices in the UK, but people get round it in other ways, such as Apple not supplying if you discount, etc.
It's way way more complicated than that. Devaluing is actually a pretty significant problem, because the cost of goods is generally artificially lowered by the supply chain. A lot of things would be significantly more expensive if they weren't able to rely on the large initial sales volume guaranteed by being purchased in bulk by distributors, who are only able to do so do the large customer base provided by individual stores.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
~1.5k
