[650] - Grey Knights - Add-on to 1850 to = 2500

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**casvalremdeikun**

I am getting a small force of Grey Knights to complement my Crimson Fists. I want to be able to attach them on for larger games. Here is my setup that I am looking at.

Nemesis Strike Force:

HQ
Grand Master Voldus - 240 pts

Troops
Terminator Squad (Halberd on Justicar, 2x Double Falchion, 1x Nemesis Daemon Hammer, 1x Psycannon+Sword) - 205 pts

Heavy Support
Nemesis Dreadknight (Nemesis Greatsword, Power Fist, Heavy Psycannon, Personal Teleporter) - 205 pts

Total - 650 pts.

**Elric Greywolf**

Amazingly, your Termies are set up correctly weapons-wise, although I might put the psycan and hammer on the same model, so you can keep both goodies alive for longer. (Most GK put the hammer on the Justicar, and this is a mistake).

I'd wonder at the efficiency of this list. A single NDK is going to die T1 unless you have some other equally scary stuff to distract from him. And the Termies aren't going to actually be that survivable.

I think to provide good feedback we'd need to see what this is going with.

**Grey Templar**

Not a bad setup, though Falchions are a little overpriced. Not that there is much you can do with 4 saved points turning them into Halberds.

**Marmatag**

I have to ask - if you're hunting for Voldus or the Dreadknight.

Because you don't need to take Grey Knights to get Voldus. So if you're after the dreadknight, it's cheaper to go without Voldus, and if you're after Voldus, you don't need Grey Knights.

That said, if you're looking to add a squad of terminators, a level 3 melee psyker, and also a dreadknight, solid stuff here, although i would personally try and take the flamer on the dreadknight.

**casvalremdeikun**

I am banking on the Dreadknight surviving due to a bit of target saturation. My Crimson Fists have a squad of Grav Centurions alongside Pedro Kantor in a Drop Pod, two squads of Drop Pod Sternguard, a full complement of Rapier Quad Mortars, a Raptor Wing, and a Culexus Assassin(I know, the Anti-Psyker paired with the Psyker Army).

Also, is putting the Hammer and Psycannon on one model a good idea? Seems like concentrating the points like that would not be a good idea.

I am running Voldus because I have Voldus through the Triumvirate of the Primarch. He looks like he has some fun rules.

Why the Flamer instead of the suped-up Assault Cannon?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
Not a bad setup, though Falchions are a little overpriced. Not that there is much you can do with 4 saved points turning them into Halberds.

Falchions are mostly because they look cool, but also because the added attacks.

**casvalremdeikun**

Here is my Crimson Fists list for reference. Like I said, I am banking on target saturation helping my Dreadknight survive.

HQ
Pedro Kantor (rides with the Grav Centurions) - 185 pts

Elites
10-man Sternguard Squad (5 Combi-Gravs, Drop Pod) - 305 pts
10-man Sternguard Squad (5 Combi-Meltas, Drop Pod) - 305 pts

Troops
5-man Tactical Squad (Rhino) - 105 pts
5-man Tactical Squad (Rhino) - 105 pts

Fast Attack
Drop Pod - 35 pts

Heavy Support
Centurion Devastator Squad (3x Grav Cannon w/ Grav Amp, Omniscope) - 250 pts
Rapier Quad Mortar - 60 pts
Rapier Quad Mortar - 60 pts

Raptor Wing
Land Speeder Squadron (1x Typhoon Missile Launcher) - 70 pts
Stormtalon Gunship (Skyhammer Missile Launcher) - 115 pts
Stormtalon Gunship (Skyhammer Missile Launcher) - 115 pts

Officio Assassinorum Detachment
Culexus Assassin - 140 pts

I might take the Culexus out and put a squad of Missile Launcher Devastators in instead to prevent probable disruption of the Grey Knights. The extra ten points would go to Melta Bombs for the Tactical Squads.

1850/1850 pts

**Elric Greywolf**

New to Sternguard, with a question: why do you do combi-specials instead of regular? Is it so they can still access the special ammo?

Why do you have Rhinos instead of Pods? The Pods are (sorta) more durable. It would also allow you to push all three important Pods into T1.

All-in-all it's a pretty solid list. I'd like to see how long the NDK does survive, bc in my book it's the 2nd scariest thing on the field (after the Cents).
The Culexus is a good inclusion in the list--he's very survivable, and if he doesn't die he wrecks stuff. There's a lot of psykers in the meta, so he's a good counter to that. Have you thought about Sisters of Silence for a bit cheaper option?

**casvalremdeikun**

Sternguard get combis so they keep their special ammo. And since Fists reroll 1s on Special Ammo, they can be brutal.

I have Rhinos because I own Rhinos. I only have three pods and they are annoying to build, paint, and work with.

I am waiting for the new SoS rules to hit before I replace my Culexus with them.

**wuestenfux**

I'd include several NDKs and one Imperial Knight.

**casvalremdeikun**

wuestenfux wrote:
I'd include several NDKs and one Imperial Knight.

How exactly do I do that with 650 pts?

**casvalremdeikun**

So running Voldus as a Librarian with ML 3 and a Daemon Hammer will save me 100 pts on him while sacrificing not a whole lot. What could I do with those 100 pts in Grey Knights? I still have to keep the list at 650 pts total.

**Grey Templar**

You can't really do anything with 100 points in a GK list.

**casvalremdeikun**

Grey Templar wrote:
You can't really do anything with 100 points in a GK list.

Kinda what I figured. I will probably just keep Voldus then.

**Ceann**

You could ditch voldus and take an ML 3 Librarian with dld relic and have points left to take the incinerator on the NDK, it does have torrent afterall. Any leftover you could just add some more terminators the squad.

**Grey Templar**

Nah, if you can take Voldus you take Voldus. He's an I5 daemonhammer and knows 4 sanctic powers. Plus 3 wounds in case perils.

**Ceann**

So does lib with ML 3 and DLD, voldus is over priced for the extra wound and the I 5 only really matters for MC. If I remember the points correctly the lib is like 170 so you could take 20 point for the incinerator on the NDK and 20 to give both of his tac squads a meltaguns and meltabombs or dozer blades also. If his primary detachment was GK I think it's a better argument but he has grav guns, air units and other things for AV I just don't think he needs a daemon hammer that badly. GK only perils on double 6 and he doesn't really have the volume of warp charges to peril unless he is dumping them all on only 1 power a turn.

**Grey Templar**

Voldus is definitely not overpriced. He's totally worth all of his points.

He basically pays 10 extra points over a Grandmaster to get a daemonhammer that lacks unwieldy. Assuming you also add the 25 points to also make him level 3. He's also better in melee than a Librarian. best of both worlds.

**Ceann**

You still don't make the case. He could take a bare bones tech marine and take another NDK and get the meltas still. How is he better than that?

Like if he just wants to play him that's fine, but I wouldn't say it's the best option.

**Grey Templar**

It does depend on what he wants. If you just want another Dreadknight, you could do that. If you want a bunch of sanctic powers as well as a beatstick special character, then you take Voldus.

**casvalremdeikun**

Grey Templar wrote:
It does depend on what he wants. If you just want another Dreadknight, you could do that. If you want a bunch of sanctic powers as well as a beatstick special character, then you take Voldus.

Voldus will never be my warlord, so I am looking at 3 powers plus the primaris on whatever discipline I want, which is nice. In terms of adding stuff, I am looking for a minimalist force that does a good job. 6+ Warp charges to work with is pretty nice, though it doesn't help the Culexus's shooting ability. I may need to reevaluate him.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I were to take out the Culexus, I would add in my third Rapier Quad Mortar Battery (as a separate HS slot and move the Grav Cents to Elites because Imperial Fists) and change the Land Speeder to two Assault Cannon Land Speeders, and give each of the Tactical Squads a Meltagun.

**Marmatag**

Voldus is an absolute man when it comes to his attacks in melee. Lacking eternal warrior is scary though, for a 240 point investment.

I haven't finished painting my Voldus so he hasn't seen action outside of some little test skirmishes on the carpet. I'm going to bring him to the table this coming weekend.

But I feel like psychic powers do well against armies that are light on the psychic phase, but if you run Voldus into Daemons, you'll probably get denied at a critical juncture. I'm not sure how best to use his psychic dice.

**Grey Templar**

Getting denied happens sometimes. I think the key is to do your "unimportant" powers first to try and draw out your opponent's dice. And just having a bunch of psykers and buckets of dice is important too.

As for not having EW, its a bit of a risk, but for his points I don't think we could ask for more. A theoretical level 3 grandmaster with a Daemonhammer would be only 10 points cheaper than Voldus, so he's only 10 points more expensive for a fixed warlord trait and an at-initiative daemon hammer. At-initiative thunderhammer also heads off some of the threat early since he can often ID his opponent first.

In the context of this list, it seems like Voldus is looking to be mostly a Gate of Infinity caddy. Move the terminators around the field.

**casvalremdeikun**

I have a Space Marine Terminator Librarian, who can take a 25 pt Relic that grants an extra Warp Charge and rerolling failed psychic rolls. Would that be a good replacement instead of the Quad Mortars and Land Speeder? Problem is he wouldnt be able to attach to the NSF Terminators and Voldus. It would be an extra three Warp Charges though.

**Grey Templar**

More psykers is never a bad thing. What discipline would you do and where would he hitch a ride?

**casvalremdeikun**

Grey Templar wrote:
More psykers is never a bad thing. What discipline would you do and where would he hitch a ride?

He would probably go with Divination. The transport issue is exactly why I replaced him with the Culexus Assassin in the first place. My points are probably better spent elsewhere then.

**Marmatag**

I know this is probably not a good idea, but i'm thinking of pairing him with some Assault Centurions, and Tigurius. The average toughness is 5, have Tigurius roll on Biomancy the 4+FNP and ideally iron arm.

This is a fairly survivable unit that's actually not horrible in terms of shootiness. With split fire you've got 3 twin linked multimeltas and (within 12 inches) 18 RENDING boltgun dice, thanks to Tigurius, split between two targets.

Obviously that's not a competitive setup. I get it. But still, that unit would have a way to wound basically anything, and could hold its own in melee. With cleansing flame it wouldn't be afraid of melee blobs either.

**Bartali**

Of course the classical option would be :-

Libby
Strikes
Dreadknight
Draigo

Stick Draigo and the Libby with the Cents

**Marmatag**

That's a Draigo star and it works with Grav-cents.

I'm talking about an assault cent unit that is more melee focused.

And I could have both of these stars on the table at the same time with Voldus.

If you roll fulmination the Voldusstar can bail out the Draigostar.

Again, probably not competitive but it'd be neat.

**casvalremdeikun**

You know, Voldus might actually make a good basis for a Voldus-to-Draigo conversion. But I don't really have interest in doing that.

If one picks Voldus as their Warlord, he stands a very good chance of getting Gate of Infinity, which means he would be able to cart Pedro Kantor and his Grav Centurions around. It would require some placement, but I will definitely be working toward placing him close to Pedro and the Cents if I DO roll GoI.

**Marmatag**

You still have what, 1/3 chance of not getting GoI though?

Meanwhile, only like 1/5 times you won't land a fulmination mobility power, even with only rolling 3 dice.