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Made in se
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






Heavy bolters on Valkyries. Are they worth their points? It's 20p for 6 shots (kills a marine every 1.5 rounds). The Valkyrie is always going to cost 135p with usefull upgrades. Heavy bolters bump it up to 155p. The question is if two heavy bolters add enough to be usefull? For two Valkyries that's 40p. Does people from experience think it's worthwile? I'm about to convert stuff so suggestions are appreciated.

As a side question, is the awkward position of them a limitation?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/21 21:27:49


His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






yes, it is a fairly survivable heavy bolter. and when you are out of hellstrikes you are throwing out ML and bolter shots. There are armies other than space marines. so if you fight a lot of xenos that ap4 is going to help against most of them

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Heavy bolters get a bad rap. They're pretty cheap and deal out a decent amount of shots at a decent strength. They're not going to be the best gun ever, but they're so cheap that I love keeping them around. Sure, they may not destroy an entire unit, but they can at least make the opponent think about shooting at the vehicle instead of its payload. Especially against units without power armor, heavy bolters can do an unexpected amount of damage. They're great for mowing down chaff units to let your specialized units better perform their role. Even if they only knock off a marine or two, then your assault unit will have slightly better odds. Against hoard armies, they're much better. It kinda depends on your meta, but I think laying down 6 extra shots per turn is worth 20 points on a mobile platform. You can always move around and pick your targets.
   
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They get a bad rap because they're bad.

Given that the valkyrie is BS4, I think the rocket pods will net you more damage.
   
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!!Goffik Rocker!!






bad rap is bad
   
Made in ca
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Martel732 wrote:
They get a bad rap because they're bad.

Given that the valkyrie is BS4, I think the rocket pods will net you more damage.


Valkyrie is actually BS3. I would personally rather have 2 more meltas than 2 heavy bolters on my Valk.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Martel732 wrote:
They get a bad rap because they're bad.

Given that the valkyrie is BS4, I think the rocket pods will net you more damage.

You don't have to pick/choose.

The Rocket Pods are wing-mounts. Heavy Bolters are door/"sponson" mounted.
   
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I'm trying to save points. Valkyries can't fire 5 weapons, so I don't see a reason to give them 5 weapons. I guess they can in fast skimmer mode...
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





The problem with heavy bolter on the Valk isn't the gun. It's the positioning. As you pointed out it is limiting, very much so. As it stands now, those bolter can only shot there side, they can not fire forwards or back. And with out "power of the machine spirit" or split fire you cant fire you can't fire on more than one target, so you will never be able to use the heavy bolters on any target in front of you (and thus, anything that you are hitting with the rest of your weapons) and you'll never be able to use more than one of those bolters per turn. I model the things because they look cool, but with the way that the rules are written they are just a point sink. Guns you can't fire are better left at home.

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And the heavy bolter is kinda stinky, too.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





I wouldn't say kind of stinky. Sure they could use a little bump up, maybe a 4th shot, the the HB is a pretty solid weapon otherwise, it can dmg light vehicles and is good against infantry.

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Is it, though? Needs 6 to glance av 11, can't touch 12. A bs 3 heavy bolter kills around a single ork. Less if they have cover.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





Bumping up it's stats would make it take over the Auto Cannon, I'm find with giving it extra shots.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut




KayTwo wrote:
I wouldn't say kind of stinky. Sure they could use a little bump up, maybe a 4th shot, the the HB is a pretty solid weapon otherwise, it can dmg light vehicles and is good against infantry.

Except it isn't good vs infantry or light vehicles. Math says so.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Imperial firepower in general is poor. That's superfriends and such are necessary.
   
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It's gona be great in 8-th with -2 to armor saves.

Also, a bs4 heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 orks per turn. A scat laser will kill 2.22 orks per turn. Whereas a heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 'eavy armored ork per turn and a scat laser will kill 1.11. It's not THAT much worse. mid str spam is still mid str spam. I've played vs bolter centurions and they ended up way more frightening than grav cents vs my list. And cheaper.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/14 06:34:54


 
   
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 koooaei wrote:
It's gona be great in 8-th with -2 to armor saves.

Also, a bs4 heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 orks per turn. A scat laser will kill 2.22 orks per turn. Whereas a heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 'eavy armored ork per turn and a scat laser will kill 1.11. It's not THAT much worse. mid str spam is still mid str spam. I've played vs bolter centurions and they ended up way more frightening than grav cents vs my list. And cheaper.


off topic, but full on bolter centurions totally need that xibit meme... yo dawg I heard you like bolters so we put bolters on your bolters...

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 koooaei wrote:
It's gona be great in 8-th with -2 to armor saves.

Also, a bs4 heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 orks per turn. A scat laser will kill 2.22 orks per turn. Whereas a heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 'eavy armored ork per turn and a scat laser will kill 1.11. It's not THAT much worse. mid str spam is still mid str spam. I've played vs bolter centurions and they ended up way more frightening than grav cents vs my list. And cheaper.


Add cover in. The heavy bolter is a dumpster fire. And the solution is not making power armor worthless, which is what bringing back save mods will do. As bad as 7th is, I'm not playing 2nd again. Just like I"m not busting out my flannel shirts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/14 14:21:07


 
   
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Martel732 wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
It's gona be great in 8-th with -2 to armor saves.

Also, a bs4 heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 orks per turn. A scat laser will kill 2.22 orks per turn. Whereas a heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 'eavy armored ork per turn and a scat laser will kill 1.11. It's not THAT much worse. mid str spam is still mid str spam. I've played vs bolter centurions and they ended up way more frightening than grav cents vs my list. And cheaper.


Add cover in. The heavy bolter is a dumpster fire. And the solution is not making power armor worthless, which is what bringing back save mods will do. As bad as 7th is, I'm not playing 2nd again. Just like I"m not busting out my flannel shirts.


I highly doubt GW will kill the preverbial golden goose

if the more wounds thing is true though then that 3+ goes to 5+on heavy bolters and a 4+ on normal bolters, but say that marine has 3 wounds...

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 G00fySmiley wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
It's gona be great in 8-th with -2 to armor saves.

Also, a bs4 heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 orks per turn. A scat laser will kill 2.22 orks per turn. Whereas a heavy bolter is gona kill 1.33 'eavy armored ork per turn and a scat laser will kill 1.11. It's not THAT much worse. mid str spam is still mid str spam. I've played vs bolter centurions and they ended up way more frightening than grav cents vs my list. And cheaper.


Add cover in. The heavy bolter is a dumpster fire. And the solution is not making power armor worthless, which is what bringing back save mods will do. As bad as 7th is, I'm not playing 2nd again. Just like I"m not busting out my flannel shirts.


I highly doubt GW will kill the preverbial golden goose

if the more wounds thing is true though then that 3+ goes to 5+on heavy bolters and a 4+ on normal bolters, but say that marine has 3 wounds...


Well, that's not playing 2nd ed. Marines didn't start off the golden goose, and GW's so bad at math that I could see them accidentally doing it. I wouldn't trust GW to add 3+4. The dark days of 2nd ed are always going to be a spectre of just how terrible GW is at rules.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/14 16:19:53


 
   
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Aren't you the one who's crying that bolters are useless? Well, they kinda aren't with rends.
   
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At what cost? Power armor viability? Everything the imperium will have the eldar will have better just like in 2nd. I'd rather bolters be useless than open the game up to catapult weapons with a rend value.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/17 13:42:46


 
   
 
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