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I had been reading up on the Survivors of a Dark Age provenance along with it's restrictions as I plan on using it for my Militia.

However, in passing I had heard that Grenadiers can't take special weapons if you place them in rhinos with the given Provenance.

I was just wondering where it says that exactly or if there is something I'm missing that would keep them from doing such.

 IronMaster wrote:
I had been reading up on the Survivors of a Dark Age provenance along with it's restrictions as I plan on using it for my Militia.

However, in passing I had heard that Grenadiers can't take special weapons if you place them in rhinos with the given Provenance.

I was just wondering where it says that exactly or if there is something I'm missing that would keep them from doing such.

Squad starting size is 10. To take special weapons, you must add to the squad size. So as soon as you take a special weapon, you exceed Rhino/Proteus capacity.

Poor design choice by FW, imo.

Got it, that makes sense.

That feels like a editting error, but oh well. I'll run 10 man "Bolter" lasgun squads.

 IronMaster wrote:
Got it, that makes sense.

That feels like a editting error, but oh well. I'll run 10 man "Bolter" lasgun squads.

Or they really really want people to buy Arvus models which can transport 12 models.

 IronMaster wrote:
Got it, that makes sense.

Thatit's els like a editting error, but oh well. I'll run 10 man "Bolter" lasgun squads.

I doubt it - they've printed the army list twice now (once in a black book, once in a red book), and it's the only unit I can think of where you add themodel, not just replace a weapon.

locarno24 wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:
Got it, that makes sense.

Thatit's els like a editting error, but oh well. I'll run 10 man "Bolter" lasgun squads.

I doubt it - they've printed the army list twice now (once in a black book, once in a red book), and it's the only unit I can think of where you add themodel, not just replace a weapon.

They may not be expecting you to go for the Militia list for small squads travelling by Rhino.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:
Got it, that makes sense.

Thatit's els like a editting error, but oh well. I'll run 10 man "Bolter" lasgun squads.

I doubt it - they've printed the army list twice now (once in a black book, once in a red book), and it's the only unit I can think of where you add themodel, not just replace a weapon.

They may not be expecting you to go for the Militia list for small squads travelling by Rhino.

Well, they made the provenance that requires Grenadiers able to take said Rhinos. You would think they would have anticipated this and let the Grenadiers just upgrade at one special per 5 or some such, like normal squads usually do. Such a shame, as it makes Rhino units less appealing. Now a triple Las Proteus works because the unit inside is there just to jump out and score at the end of the game.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:
Got it, that makes sense.

Thatit's els like a editting error, but oh well. I'll run 10 man "Bolter" lasgun squads.

I doubt it - they've printed the army list twice now (once in a black book, once in a red book), and it's the only unit I can think of where you add themodel, not just replace a weapon.

They may not be expecting you to go for the Militia list for small squads travelling by Rhino.

Well, they made the provenance that requires Grenadiers able to take said Rhinos. You would think they would have anticipated this and let the Grenadiers just upgrade at one special per 5 or some such, like normal squads usually do. Such a shame, as it makes Rhino units less appealing. Now a triple Las Proteus works because the unit inside is there just to jump out and score at the end of the game.

Yes, but you can also park twenty Grenadiers with 30"/S4 lasguns in cover, or use Gorgons, or (as mentioned before) put them in Arvuses. Rhinos may be an afterthought to this list.

(I will recommend las-locks if you use Rhinos (or even if you don't). You may not have special weapons but you can totally have S5.) (Yes, I know it's actually less effective against power-armoured Marines than rapid-firing with S4 weapons, but imagine the looks on their faces when you wreck a Rhino from the front with massed lasgun fire.)

(Addendum: Don't forget that you get to use the Legion list entry for Rhinos, and remember to put the heavy weapon (heavy bolter/heavy flamer/multi-melta) on them.)

I figure the unit entry was made... and then the provenance was made after and they didn't think about special weapons with Rhino/Proteus. Or, they wanted that to be a balancing factor.

*shrug* It is what it is.

Good call on the heavy pintle option too. That is a must for the Rhino in this list!

I think thats the point, really - the rhino or land raider essentially becomes your "fire support".

The fact that the way a special weapon grenadier works, makes me think its deliberate. Suvivors as a provenance is too focused on grenadiers for it not to be the case.

personally I like it, as it forces you to choose between more support in the squad, or more infantry. and since these squads are so cheap, you can EASILY do something like 3 squads in rhinos, and 2 or 3 20-man blobs with S: 4 rotor cannons for a laugh

It's a good idea to mix, anyway: lasrifle/rotor cannon squads are static but good (and with no size constraints, 40 points gets you a medicae orderly for each squad), whilst lascarbine or laslock/pair of hand flamers in rhino squads are your "go take that objective" unit (god but I wish ogryns could have implacable advance!).

You can do the same thing with a loaded-out gorgon, but you're paying over three hundred points...... it's good for delivering a flamestorm death unit (auxilia fire support, heavy flamers, planetary overlord with "merchant princeling" for ap3 heavy flamers), though, which is one of the few genuinely terrifying single squads (albeit needing a basic infantry squad to "unlock" the gorgon).