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Hey guys,

Now that we got 8th Edition looking more and more like it will operate quite differently from 7th Edition as well as more and more people voicing their dislike for how 8th Edition sounds, I had a thought (*shock* *horror*). Let me preface what I'm about to say by mentioning that when AOS came out, there was a lot of people around where I live who - though they didn't do it in my FLGS's - still played a lot of 8th Edition Fantasy since they (and I) think it's still so much better than AOS. Now, I get the impression that this will be the same sort of scenario in my area for 7th Edition vs 8th Edition 40K - We have a whole bunch of people who will play maybe 8th Edition in stores and whatnot, but still play a lot of 7th Edition with friends and so on because they prefer that edition.

Now for me, this opens up a whole new thing about House Rules. What I mean to say is that it seems to me that if people do the aforementioned (i.e. stick with an 'Outdated' Edition), then suddenly we have a more solid testing ground for the more radical House Rules or - in the case of Dakka Dakka - the more radical Proposed Rules. Now, when I say '...more radical...', I mean going above and beyond introducing your own custom Independent Character (like your custom Chapter Master) or House Ruling one tiny little rule because it makes things easier (e.g. my friends and I have House Rules that help make deployment quicker and easier without really changing the rules). When I say '...more radical...', I'm talking about all the Codex Fixes we see here, all the fixes with regards to inappropriately costed units, etc etc etc.

So here's what I want to know: If you stick with 7th Edition and keep playing with a decent group of people, will you try out new rules? Will you try out Codex Fixes and Points Adjustments? Will you come up with custom Formations and Special Rules in order to help that player who's using an under-powered Codex in your 7th Edition games? Etc etc etc.

Cheers guys

Eh, we really don't have enough information about 8th edition to make a credible case either way.

Certainly some of the things they mentioned are concerning, but that's largely because they're talking about modifying the status quo in some ways that don't really seem warranted.

I think it's probably best to just put it out of mind, and keep playing 7th edition. Although, based on what i'm hearing, I won't be starting a new army until 8th drops.

In my group we are already playing so radically houseruled/fixed/rewrote 40K that new edition is more likely to be a source of new ideas than a "switch to" goal. But we might rewrite our modifications to resemble 8th more nonetheless, because some of us like occasional participation in "mainstream 40K" tournaments, so it is best if at least some fundamental concepts are the same. Unless of course 8th will prove to be a great game, then we might, just might drop our houseruled version altogether.

In a broader view of things, I don't think 7th will last. I only experienced one transition period myself, 2nd-to-3rd (dropped out back then and came back during 7th). It was as radical as WHFB to AOS rules wise and back then, and a lot of people stayed with 2nd ed for quite long, but eventually they mostly "died out" and "fresh blood" players, never knowing 2nd ed, became the majority in my area and 2nd ed became "naturally extinct". I suppose this will happen a lot faster with 7th.

Houseruling a ruleset based on design idea's and snippets is kinda premature.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Houseruling a ruleset based on design idea's and snippets is kinda premature.

We aren't trying to houserule 8th We are talking about "going wild" in houseruling "to be outdated" 7th.

 IllumiNini wrote:
So here's what I want to know: If you stick with 7th Edition and keep playing with a decent group of people, will you try out new rules? Will you try out Codex Fixes and Points Adjustments? Will you come up with custom Formations and Special Rules in order to help that player who's using an under-powered Codex in your 7th Edition games? Etc etc etc.

We are going to give 8th edition a chance, but in the event that it is total we will be reverting back to 7th. I would be open to embracing a community based ruleset, provided the changes proposed were sensible. Trying to get people to agree on anything is near impossible but its worth trying.

House rules we currently use:

Transports: Not allowed to know what troops are in transport until they disembark or shoot out of transport. Its written down before the game for proof no foul play occurred. This benefits numerous armies notably Orks, Guard etc and makes for much more interesting gameplay.

Mob Rule: Orks are fearless as long as they are within 6" of at least 10 other boyz. Don't play orks, have friends that do and it makes no sense that orks would flee when dozens/hundreds of orks are charging forward next to them.

Orders: Infinite range with vox caster. Orders can be issued to units within transport. Its 40k, not the civil war. Basic radio equipment can reach across the entire planet, let alone a football field.

nou wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Houseruling a ruleset based on design idea's and snippets is kinda premature.

We aren't trying to houserule 8th We are talking about "going wild" in houseruling "to be outdated" 7th.

^ haha this.

Commissar Benny wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:
So here's what I want to know: If you stick with 7th Edition and keep playing with a decent group of people, will you try out new rules? Will you try out Codex Fixes and Points Adjustments? Will you come up with custom Formations and Special Rules in order to help that player who's using an under-powered Codex in your 7th Edition games? Etc etc etc.

We are going to give 8th edition a chance, but in the event that it is total we will be reverting back to 7th. I would be open to embracing a community based ruleset, provided the changes proposed were sensible. Trying to get people to agree on anything is near impossible but its worth trying.

House rules we currently use:

Transports: Not allowed to know what troops are in transport until they disembark or shoot out of transport. Its written down before the game for proof no foul play occurred. This benefits numerous armies notably Orks, Guard etc and makes for much more interesting gameplay.

Mob Rule: Orks are fearless as long as they are within 6" of at least 10 other boyz. Don't play orks, have friends that do and it makes no sense that orks would flee when dozens/hundreds of orks are charging forward next to them.

Orders: Infinite range with vox caster. Orders can be issued to units within transport. Its 40k, not the civil war. Basic radio equipment can reach across the entire planet, let alone a football field.

I actually like these House Rules, but would you ever consider going above and beyond this in a massive way in order to attempt to balance 40K? I'm talking about fixes on a scale that fix everything from the Gravitation USR to problems on a Codex-by-Codex basis; so let's assume 8th Edition is total gakk and you go back to 7th: Will you go for the extensive, universal-level fixes?

Because if my friends are willing, I'd be damn keen to implement changes that - for example - give Orks the equivalent power that all the relatively recent supplements have given to Space Marines. Like where is the formation that Orks get that have the equivalent function and/or power of - for example - the Skyhammer Annihilation Force? I'm keen to make sure that Chaos Space Marines that don't necessarily benefit from the Traitor Legions supplement (e.g. a 24th Founding Chapter that falls to Chaos) are still viable (because - as I understand it - the Traitor Legions supplement favours exactly that: the Traitor Legions and not other Chaos Space Marines).

I don't think 8th fantasy was near the total gak show that 7th 40k is. Any change that makes it more simplified will be more popular.

I wonder if the people that have been calling 7th edition unplayable are the same that are now afraight of an 8th.
Concerning your question: It depends on how often you get to play the game. If you play on a weekly basis I guess it's totally possible to try out new rules every now and then. If you are playing only once in a while and can hardly keep track of the basic rules let alone formation stuff it's easier to concentrate on what is written in official material.
Personally I hope that 8th will be an easier ruleset with higher tactical depth, similar to lotr or Attack Wing, or maybe AoS. All those games have a simple ruleset yet are much harder to master than 40k, as they are not won in the list building phase.

As much as I love the proposed rules forum, my time posting there has taught me one thing; the only thing worse at game design than GW is the average Dakka user.

There are some great ideas on that forum, but they're nestled in pages and pages of overpowered fan dexes, custom marine characters, and projects that get started but never finish.

40k is simply too bloated for one person a forum to try and fix. You'd need a small group of dedicated hobbyists who are regulars at the tournament scene to pass a sweeping errata of point adjustments and rule clarifications to get a semblance of 'fan-made' house rules that make sense.

I could probably hash out an IG fix/fan-dex that makes sense, but I doubt very much I'd have the time (and more importantly, motivation) to go through the rulebook and fix all of GW's errors and ambiguity.

All that said, as much as I dislike 7th, and I'm not overly keen on the rumours surrounding 8th, lets at least wait for the whole picture before we start balkanizing the community further.

Yeah, people (even I) have no clue what the repercussions of some changes they propose are. Only a dedicated commitee of 5-9 people with TIME and technical knowledge can.

I don't think there will be many people who stick with 7th ed. long term.

The reason why 8th Fantasy/9th Age and 2nd ed 40K still have followings is that they were replaced by a different sort of game. The 7th to 8th change for 40K doesn't look to be nearly so radical from what's been revealed so far. It'll probably be easier to adapt to the changes and house-rule out the ones you don't like then to stick with 7th.

7th will also start losing players as new armies are released for 8th and existing armies get new units. (When the Tau army first came out it killed a lot of 2nd ed. holdout groups since they had to either write the Codex from scratch or tell people they couldn't use their army.)