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So, I decided to try and come up with some flavourful rules for these missing Phoenix Lords, due to reading fluff online about Drastanta and wanting to see them come to life. Unfortunately though, I don't have access to Eldar rules, and so I've tried to make this as clear as possible without that resource.

To that end, if anyone would be able to help me make proper looking a datasheet for the rules below, as well as find appropriate points values for them, I'd be most grateful!


Obviously, Drastanta would have the same rules and stats as any other PL, as would Amon Harakht, where applicable. As well, Drastanta would have the Eldar Jetbike type and any equipment default to Shining Spears.



New Phoenix Lords


Drastanta, Tempest of Starlight (Shining Spears)

Celestial Lance

The Celestial Lance is a laser lance which strikes at Str 8 AP1 with the Armourbane and Lance special rules for its shooting attack and when charging. During subsequent rounds of combat, it has the following profile

Rg –
Str 6
AP 2
Lance, Rending


Crown of the Seventh Sky
This Wraithbone helm, worn by the Shining Spear Phoenix Lord, augments Drastanta’s senses and reaction times, allowing him to weave between a storm of bullets or evade the most persistent of seeker missiles, and pick out his target while moving at high speeds, even while they hide in the undergrowth. In addition, the psycho-reactive Wraithbone is capable of defending against and even reflecting the attacks of enemy psykers back unto themselves.

Drastanta has the Admantium Will and Ignores Cover Special Rules. The Crown of the Seventh Sky gives Drastanta a 2+ Jink save. In addition, whenever Drastanta successfully rolls to Deny The Witch, inflict a Str 3 AP – hit with Ignores Cover rule on the psyker who cast the power, equal to the number of successful Warp Charges used.

Hatred: Daemons of Slaanesh







Amon Harakht, The Silver Wing (Crimson Hunters)

Amon Harakht, known as the Silver Wing, is the enigmatic and secretive pilot of the Crimson Hunters Aspect Warriors. Little is known about him, as he disappears mysteriously at the end of each battle, and rarely works with his fellow Eldar in battle. On rare occasions, he will commandeer a few of his Aspect Warriors to accompany him, leading by example. Able to perform gravity-defying turns in the air and slice enemy fighters apart with the scythe-like wings of his aircraft, he is said to be one with his Nightshade Interceptor, piloting it with the natural ease and grace as any bird of prey.


One Nightshade Interceptor in the army may be upgraded to Amon Harakht, and use his BS of 7 and gain the Hover type. Amon Harakht’s Nightshade Interceptor is equipped with 2 Twin-Linked Starcannons and a Pulse Laser. He may add an additional 2 Nightshade Interceptors to his unit, chosen from the normal army list entry. The 3 models are treated as a Squadron and follow the rules for squadrons. Neither of the Nightshade Interceptors may be upgraded to an Exarch.


Rules:
The Silver Wing
Amon Harakht has a 2+ Jink save, and always counts as having Vectored Engines. In addition, during the movement phase, Amon Harakht may turn up to 360 degrees before moving. If you select additional Nightshade Interceptors for the Squadron, Amon Harakht may continue to use this special rule to turn up to 360 degrees, however, he must end his movement phase within Squadron coherency.

Aerial Duelist
Enemy Flyers must reroll successful Jink Saves against shooting attacks from Amon Harakht (but no other model in his squadron). During the movement phase, Amon Harakht may choose to try and slice and enemy aircraft apart with the blade-like wings of his aircraft. To do this he must move directly over an enemy model with the Flyer type. The enemy flyer may attempt to Jink to avoid damage. Inflict a Str 9, AP 1 hit to the enemy flyer at the end of the movement phase. If the attack inflicts a glancing hit, both flyers suffer a Crew Shaken result in addition to any other damage. If the attack fails to penetrate the target flyer, Amon Harakht suffers a Crew Stunned result. Amon Harakht may not use this attack if he is part of a squadron.

These all come across as crazy powerful. Moreso than any other Phoenix Lord.

My initial feeling is that you've gotten a bit carried away with special rules. Like what makes a Shining Spear Phoenix Lord such a notable anti-psyker?

 curran12 wrote:
These all come across as crazy powerful. Moreso than any other Phoenix Lord.

My initial feeling is that you've gotten a bit carried away with special rules. Like what makes a Shining Spear Phoenix Lord such a notable anti-psyker?

The two of them have very little information that I could find. The Crown of the Seventh Sky is mentioned on Lexicanum but has no page of it own. I just decided it would do that, but as there is no information on it, I'm totally open to any an all suggestions.

Amon Harakht is even more vague. All Lexicanum has is that he is Phoenix Lord of the Eagle Pilots in a 2003 novel. I decided that such an aspect is probably non-canon now due to the release of 4 editions since then as well as Crimson Hunter Aspect, so I just carried his name over and made him up.

What specifically is it that makes them so powerful? Is it the durability with the extra jink, or their damage output? Specifically I want to point out the "fly-by" of Amon Harakht. I designed that rule as the Nightshade Interceptor has blade-like wings, and I'd imagine that with a deadly enough pilot, they could be weaponised to slice through enemy craft in mid-flight. His 360 turning is to show that he is much more capable than the average Eldar, who are already especially nimble, and it just feels right that he could barrel-flip straight into the opposite direction if he were the embodiment of the God of War's aerial dominance.


As I said, I'm totally open to any suggestions with these.

I think for this, you'll want to follow a rule of "less is more". Really, the Phoenix Lords are an amplification to what their aspects do already, so you should focus on that.

For Drastanta, I think just cut out the anti-psyker stuff. That doesn't feel right to me, because it is a random other role slapped on what should be your best hit and run cavalry guy. It's like giving a good gun to a Bloodthirster, yes, he can theoretically make use of it...but it doesn't fit the bill. I'd cut that out, and maybe the Ignores Cover (though I'm on the fence about that) and focus on what Shining Spears do best.

For Amon, he's closer, though some snips and tweaks could be made. For one, I'd drop hover. Doesn't make sense for a fighter pilot to have it, especially a super skilled pilot. I mean, no pilot is ever going to make an F-16 able to hover, the machine just is not built to do that. The 360 degree turn can be made 180 because that's all you would ever use as well. Also, the restriction on Exarchs doesn't make sense, it isn't like you can't have a Phoenix Lord and Exarch in the same unit.

The big issue is the Aerial Duelist, mostly because it is really clunky in its wording. Just give him a S9 Vector Strike and you're done. All of these nested, conditional factors add a lot of burden and bloat to something that should be simple.

Hi there, Deadshot. It's always cool to see new homebrewed phoenix lord rules. Curran12 hit the nail on the head with his comments. To elaborate on them a bit...

Drastanta:
* You say he uses the PL statline, but would his eldar jetbike make him Toughness 5 instead of Toughness 4?
* The celestial lance seems over the top to me. I'm fine with it being more powerful than a normal star lance on the charge, but this guy is actually one of the more terrifying melee characters even in subsequent rounds. Which kind of loses the "charging cavalry" thing that shining spears embody. Speaking of charging cavalry...
* It looks like Drastanta doesn't have Hit & Run unless I missed it. Losing HIt & Run is the one thing that currently keeps shining spears from being a really solid unit. If Drastanta had Hit & Run, he would become an excellent "fix" for his aspect and would provide a nice horizontal benefit for them rather than just being an offensive power house.
* As curran12 pointed out, the crown of the seventh sky doesn't really fit. The anti-psychic ability comes out of nowhere and would generally be minorly annoying to resolve when it did come up. Plus, it gives people another reason to avoid maledictions and witchfires in favor of buffs, which is kind of lame. I like the "enhanced reflexes" angle. I'm less fond of the 2+ cover save because, between 2+ cover and 2+ armor, engaging this guy becomes kind of non-interactive. Standard Shining Spear jink shenanigans are probably good enough. I recommend dropping all the rules currently on the crown and replacing them with, "A model wearing this snazzy alien hat has the Hit & Run USR."

* You specifically mention that he has Hatred: Slaaneshi daemons. In case you weren't aware, this is already covered by the Ancient Doom rule that all craftworlders have.

Amon Harakt:
This guy still seems a little "busy," but probably more reasonable overall.
* The bladed wing thing should really just be a vector strike rule as curran12 suggests.
* Squadrons of crimson hunters feel a little bit odd and unwieldy to me. Consider making Amon Harakt a 0-1 upgrade for a single crimson hunter in your army. That way, you could still take him in a crimson death formation or what have you, but you don't have to fiddle around with keeping him in unit coherency all game. Crimson hunters are large and fast enough to generally warrant spreading out and doing their own thing, in my opinion.
* I'm not sure how I feel about that 2+ jink save. He only gets it when he actually jinks, right? Flyers can already be non-interactive for armies that aren't especially shooty and/or don't invest in anti-air weapons. Giving a flyer a 2+ save against any shots that do seems like a good way to make your opponent go :\ . How would you feel about simply letting him reroll jink saves against the attacks of FMCs and flyers? It supports his niche as the ultimate "air superiority" aspect warrior while also not punishing your opponent for not tailoring against flyers.
* I'm not sure I like the Eagle Warriors angle. Eagle Warriors, who are admittedly possibly non-canon now, are not the same as crimson hunters.

curran12 wrote:I think for this, you'll want to follow a rule of "less is more". Really, the Phoenix Lords are an amplification to what their aspects do already, so you should focus on that.

For Drastanta, I think just cut out the anti-psyker stuff. That doesn't feel right to me, because it is a random other role slapped on what should be your best hit and run cavalry guy. It's like giving a good gun to a Bloodthirster, yes, he can theoretically make use of it...but it doesn't fit the bill. I'd cut that out, and maybe the Ignores Cover (though I'm on the fence about that) and focus on what Shining Spears do best.

For Amon, he's closer, though some snips and tweaks could be made. For one, I'd drop hover. Doesn't make sense for a fighter pilot to have it, especially a super skilled pilot. I mean, no pilot is ever going to make an F-16 able to hover, the machine just is not built to do that. The 360 degree turn can be made 180 because that's all you would ever use as well. Also, the restriction on Exarchs doesn't make sense, it isn't like you can't have a Phoenix Lord and Exarch in the same unit.

The big issue is the Aerial Duelist, mostly because it is really clunky in its wording. Just give him a S9 Vector Strike and you're done. All of these nested, conditional factors add a lot of burden and bloat to something that should be simple.

You make a really good point about the vector strike, a rule I had completely forgotten existed! You also make a good point about the hover rule so I'll cut that.

As mentioned the anti-psyker stuff was experiemental so that'll be dropped as well.

Wyldhunt wrote:Hi there, Deadshot. It's always cool to see new homebrewed phoenix lord rules. Curran12 hit the nail on the head with his comments. To elaborate on them a bit...

Drastanta:
* You say he uses the PL statline, but would his eldar jetbike make him Toughness 5 instead of Toughness 4?
* The celestial lance seems over the top to me. I'm fine with it being more powerful than a normal star lance on the charge, but this guy is actually one of the more terrifying melee characters even in subsequent rounds. Which kind of loses the "charging cavalry" thing that shining spears embody. Speaking of charging cavalry...
* It looks like Drastanta doesn't have Hit & Run unless I missed it. Losing HIt & Run is the one thing that currently keeps shining spears from being a really solid unit. If Drastanta had Hit & Run, he would become an excellent "fix" for his aspect and would provide a nice horizontal benefit for them rather than just being an offensive power house.
* As curran12 pointed out, the crown of the seventh sky doesn't really fit. The anti-psychic ability comes out of nowhere and would generally be minorly annoying to resolve when it did come up. Plus, it gives people another reason to avoid maledictions and witchfires in favor of buffs, which is kind of lame. I like the "enhanced reflexes" angle. I'm less fond of the 2+ cover save because, between 2+ cover and 2+ armor, engaging this guy becomes kind of non-interactive. Standard Shining Spear jink shenanigans are probably good enough. I recommend dropping all the rules currently on the crown and replacing them with, "A model wearing this snazzy alien hat has the Hit & Run USR."

* You specifically mention that he has Hatred: Slaaneshi daemons. In case you weren't aware, this is already covered by the Ancient Doom rule that all craftworlders have.

So yes, he would have T5 as normal for Jetbike, and in hindsight (its 20/20 afterall), that plus the Jink bonus is a bit much.
That's both of you mentioning H&R so I'll be doing something with that now.
Just noticed as well you suggest the Crown giving H&R which is also what I was thinking so will work with that.

Amon Harakt:
This guy still seems a little "busy," but probably more reasonable overall.
* The bladed wing thing should really just be a vector strike rule as curran12 suggests.
* Squadrons of crimson hunters feel a little bit odd and unwieldy to me. Consider making Amon Harakt a 0-1 upgrade for a single crimson hunter in your army. That way, you could still take him in a crimson death formation or what have you, but you don't have to fiddle around with keeping him in unit coherency all game. Crimson hunters are large and fast enough to generally warrant spreading out and doing their own thing, in my opinion.
* I'm not sure how I feel about that 2+ jink save. He only gets it when he actually jinks, right? Flyers can already be non-interactive for armies that aren't especially shooty and/or don't invest in anti-air weapons. Giving a flyer a 2+ save against any shots that do seems like a good way to make your opponent go :\ . How would you feel about simply letting him reroll jink saves against the attacks of FMCs and flyers? It supports his niche as the ultimate "air superiority" aspect warrior while also not punishing your opponent for not tailoring against flyers.
* I'm not sure I like the Eagle Warriors angle. Eagle Warriors, who are admittedly possibly non-canon now, are not the same as crimson hunters.

Again, similar suggestions to curran12, vector strike and his wierd army selection so that's getting fixed in 1.2 version.
You are right when you say 2+ jink when he actually jinks, which is what I meant so apologies if that was unclear. I do like your suggestion for the reroll, but how would you feel about him rerolling jinks against Skyfire, which would also apply to ground based weapons like Hydras and Stalker tanks?

Again, re: Eagle Pilots, I admit I know nothing about them as there is little online, but as I felt they were deemed non-canon from a novel from 3-4 editions ago, replaced by Crimson Hunters as the "Pilots" corp of aspect warriors, I just borrowed the name. If I get many complaints about it I'll have a look at addressing it.


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Versions 1.2

Obviously, Drastanta would have the same rules and stats as any other PL, as would Amon Harakht, where applicable. As well, Drastanta would have the Eldar Jetbike type (so would be T5) and any equipment default to Shining Spears.


Drastanta, Tempest of Starlight (Shining Spears)

Celestial Lance

The Celestial Lance is a laser lance which strikes at Str 8 AP1 with the Armourbane and Lance special rules for its shooting attack and when charging. During subsequent rounds of combat, it follows the normal rules for Laser Lances.


Crown of the Seventh Sky
This Wraithbone helm, worn by the Shining Spear Phoenix Lord, augments Drastanta’s senses and reaction times, allowing him zip between enemy combatants with ease and grace. He uses this to great effect, crashing into his foes like a comet, only to withdraw at a moment's notice. Only when the enemy revel in their "victory" does Drastanta reveal his true plan, barrelling into the fray once again.

Drastanta, and any unit of Eldar Jetbikes he joins, has the Hit and Run special rule.

Amon Harakht, The Silver Wing (Crimson Hunters)

Amon Harakht, known as the Silver Wing, is the enigmatic and secretive pilot of the Crimson Hunters Aspect Warriors. Little is known about him, as he disappears mysteriously at the end of each battle, and rarely works with his fellow Eldar in battle. On rare occasions, he will commandeer a few of his Aspect Warriors to accompany him, leading by example. Able to perform gravity-defying turns in the air and slice enemy fighters apart with the scythe-like wings of his aircraft, he is said to be one with his Nightshade Interceptor, piloting it with the natural ease and grace as any bird of prey.


One Nightshade Interceptor in the army may be upgraded to Amon Harakht, and use his BS of 7. Amon Harakht’s Nightshade Interceptor is equipped with 2 Twin-Linked Starcannons and a Pulse Laser.

Rules:
The Silver Wing
Amon Harakht always counts as having Vectored Engines. In addition, during the movement phase, Amon Harakht may turn up to 180 degrees before moving.

Aerial Duelist
Amon Harakht may reroll failed Jink saves against shots with the Skyfire special rule. Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures suffer a -1 penalty to their Jink save against shots from Amon Harakht. In addition, Amon Harakht may use the Vector Strike special rule as if he were a Flying Monstrous Creature. This hit it treated as being Str 9. This attack may only be used against Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures

 Deadshot wrote:
Celestial Lance

The Celestial Lance is a laser lance which strikes at Str 8 AP1 with the Armourbane and Lance special rules for its shooting attack and when charging. During subsequent rounds of combat, it follows the normal rules for Laser Lances.

So it's an AP1 Star Lance with Armourbane?

As it is there are rules already for the Celestial Lance, found in the Iyanden supplement since he abandoned it, would it not make more sense to just use those rules (or take it away entirely since he no longer has it in the fluff)?

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Celestial Lance

The Celestial Lance is a laser lance which strikes at Str 8 AP1 with the Armourbane and Lance special rules for its shooting attack and when charging. During subsequent rounds of combat, it follows the normal rules for Laser Lances.

So it's an AP1 Star Lance with Armourbane?

As it is there are rules already for the Celestial Lance, found in the Iyanden supplement since he abandoned it, would it not make more sense to just use those rules (or take it away entirely since he no longer has it in the fluff)?

It would, but I don't have said supplement so I could have no idea that said item exists in fluff. Plus, I like my version.