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Hi all-
I'm thinking about what unit to use for a Primarch Retinue. Obviously a 4+ invul makes for a pretty tough unit, especially if you stack some FnP on that, but cataphractii disallows sweeping advances. However, it strikes me that with a primarch you can plan on winng a lot of combats, and with their initiative and the scarcity of leadership control in 30k, not being able to sweeping advance is quite a loss. If you are running the squad in a spartan, the 4++ is probably even less important.

For those of you who run a primarch & friends, especially in a spartan, do you use cataphractii? Tartaros? Power weapon vets or legion specific assault squad like suzerain?

sweeping is nice, but IMO Cataphractii is much nicer. Though I guess the answer really depends on what legion and what look you're going for.

Rule of Cool, IMO cataphractii is much cooler so ill use that regardless of rules

I choose Cataphractii, but I've never fielded a Primarch. Still, I'd choose Invictarus Suzerains for myself, or a Legion specific squad, but I like the durability of Cataphractii too much.

I will put my vote behind, it depends on the Legion.

That said, I really like both and will probably divide mine up between Legions.

Depends on the Legion. For my Sons of Horus- Justarian (Cataphracti) all the way! No reason not to, and every reason to take them. Rule of Cool.

However, it's not just sweeping advance- the type of terminator armor also affects other aspects of the game:

Name-------------Save?------------Run?----------Overwatch?----------Sweeping Advance?
Indominatus-------2+/5++ ----------Yes-----------------Yes---------------------No
Cataphractii--------2+/4++ ----------No------------------No----------------------No
Tartarus-------------2+/5++ ----------Yes-----------------Yes---------------------Yes

After that, you get into all the Legion specific Terminator armor. So really, it's a matter of what you think you need/how you want the squad to perform on the table. I will say nothing is worse then winning a CC on your turn, and only being able to consolidate so your opponent can then shoot the crap out of you on their next turn. Also, if they somehow gain deepstrike via a RoW or Special Rule, it really sucks being all clustered around one model so your opponent can throw a Pie Plate of DOOOOM! on them. Being able to run after a Deepstirke is kinda important. Overwatch with Terminators is really nothing to write home about, unless you happen to have a Heavy Flamer (at which point I have to ask a Heavy Flamer? Really? When you can take a Plasma Blaster? Why?).

Side Note: White space formatting on these boards sucks.

I think 4++ is really nice but Tartaros also has some sweet bonuses.

Overwatch is always nice and the time your plasma blasters makes a hit and kills causing a failed charge or won combat is a huge deal (sure it's not super likely but its happened before and that's game changing)

Runing is good ever watched a cataphracti unit lose its transport turn 1? That unit does next to nothing all game outside of area denial after that. 30k deployment zones are small and moving 6inches a then best case is not so fun.

Sweeping advance is currently one of the most broken mechanics as most unit's primarch aside are not fearless a sweep can be huge and also means you get to do a huge amount of damage with no attacks coming back and not being bogged down. (Admittedly a unit with 4++ saves is more likely to win combat vs an equal unit with 5++ so there is that)

Personally I like both but I normally run a primarch and as wolves Hvarl who is in Tartaros with an iron halo. So I like being able to keep the ability to sweep and use my movement to a maximum .

Tldr there are merits to both and it's probably close to 50 50 though squad equipment and characters that join are the key decider.

Personally, when I run my Primarch (Perturabo) and his bodyguard I reach for my cataphractii. Why? I plan on him and friends being able to take down ANOTHER deathstar. 4++ gives me the maximum amount of chance at keeping my powerfists around and ready to swing at I1. In my experience, my Primarch and another Primarch bear at each other a bit, the. Whosoever retinue wins ends up tipping the balance as wounds begin to carry over into the challenge. If the plan is building a squad to help your Primarch beat another deathstar head in, cataphractii is where it's at.

If you're ramming the contents of your spartan (including Primarch of choice) into anything that you won't immediately obliterate, it's highly likely that it's another deathstar, which also means that they're almost assuredly fearless, at which point, sweeping isn't going to matter since either there's nothing left to sweep or they're fearless and can't be swept. For pushing your deathstar into theirs, you're going to want the 4++ to try and fend off powerfists/axes that are going to be present in high concentrations.

If you want the extra options for overwatch and the ability to run, then that's a seperate discussion. The smaller the unit, the less likely you are to obliterate something on the charge, at which point winning combat and sweeping becomes more important. IMHO, for escorting high value beatsticks, Cats are the answer, for general prupose bullying, Tarts would be the way to go, but then, you've also got to consider is the extra survivabillity against AP2 is worth the perks of Tart over the +1 invo on Cata. If AP2 resistance is minimal, then Tartaros is the obvious answer.