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Made in us
Privateer





The Land of Big, Stompy Robots

Having only seen the army lists and not the full rules, I'm still planning out my 'Stealer Cult army for Shadow War.

The only big question I have is the leader's weapon. Is a power pick @ 50 points too high a cost? I'm not sure exactly what armies my friends will be using, but I'm thinking I could get basically the same effect in-game with a chainsword (minus the armor mod, naturally). A chainsword is only 25 points.

On the other hand, the power pick just looks so much cooler, so there's that.

Thoughts?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/18 22:32:36


New Career Time? 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

Weapons are generally super expensive, so don't use 40k as a baseline for what things are worth. Generally, you want your leader to have a better than basic weapon, but how much better is up to your preference (and what points permit). Not too many weapons options are straight up better than the other options, which is great because you can play what you think is cool and it'll still be roughly as good as the rest of the options (usually).

But I didn't look too closely at the gene cult leader because I was sad that Acolytes don't get rending claws haha so I went back to my first love, the Great Devourer.
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Not knowing what the chainsword gives, here's what a power pick gives you:

Strength 4 so in melee starting with S4 you get a -1 armor mod. This stacks with your -4 save mod from the pick, so a -5 armor mod. This means you are going to negate all armor rolls in melee with the exception of Terminator armor. And even that is going to be a challenge for the Termy to save. (+8 on 2d6)

Also Acolytes do get rending claws:
Wargear: An Acolyte Hybrid has a combat blade, rending claw, autopistol, blasting charges and a mining suit

Sadly Acolytes, Metamorphs, and Genestealers are all Special Operatives so you can't start with them

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 13:53:58


 
   
Made in us
Privateer





The Land of Big, Stompy Robots

I want to say, with my dim memories from Necromunda, that chainswords are s4 -1 armor mod. I guess it will depend on what armies my game group are playing. I could split the 50 points for the pick into 2 chainswords, one for the leader, one for my melee juve, err , initiate.

New Career Time? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I'd take a webber over a pick or maul
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

I think the chainsword stat line is correct IIRC (might be save mod -2), but I know that it also confers the ability to parry (make your opponent re-roll their highest attack dice in cc if you choose). This is a big deal because the cc system is based off an oppose roll (I roll my dice, you roll yours, and we compare your highest to my highest to determine who gets to roll to wound - only one model can roll to wound in each combat)

My bad on misreading the unit types for the GSC. Definitely not sure that's worth using a promethium to enlist an Acolyte, but I'd have to take a closer look.

Armor save mods really are nice. It's tough to even get past the to hit phase reliably unless you have a lot of attacks, so when you do, you want to make it count.
   
Made in us
Privateer





The Land of Big, Stompy Robots

Might as well post the whole list.

Leader - 185
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Power Pick, Auto Pistol

Heavy - 155
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Grenade Launcher (Frag)

Heavy - 190
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Heavy Stubber

Hybrid - 80 x 3
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Autogun

Hybrid - 80 x 2
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Shotgun

Initiate - 65
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Autopistol

The general idea is 2 groups: fire support and close support. Run the leader, shotgun neophytes and initiates around while the rest hang back to shoot stuff, with adjustments as needed per the scenario.

Re: a webber. If I dropped the power pick for the chainsword, I could change the grenade launcher for a webber. It just has so short of a range, is all.

New Career Time? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Might as well post the whole list.

Leader - 185
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Power Pick, Auto Pistol

Heavy - 155
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Grenade Launcher (Frag)

Heavy - 190
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Heavy Stubber

Hybrid - 80 x 3
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Autogun

Hybrid - 80 x 2
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Shotgun

Initiate - 65
Combat Blade, Mining Suit, Autopistol

The general idea is 2 groups: fire support and close support. Run the leader, shotgun neophytes and initiates around while the rest hang back to shoot stuff, with adjustments as needed per the scenario.

Re: a webber. If I dropped the power pick for the chainsword, I could change the grenade launcher for a webber. It just has so short of a range, is all.


I like it, but I think the cult has two ways to play. We got the shooty version or descent fire support with what you're running but also I feel like there's the very assault, charge into the fray team as well loaded with pistols, flamers, and webbers.,
   
Made in us
Privateer





The Land of Big, Stompy Robots

True, the assaulty version is interesting, but with (I presume) overwatch and the strength of shooting, I'm inclined to go with the shooty version.

My immediate available models are also a thing, as an assaut-heavy Cult army would require a lot of converting. I only have 1 box of Neophytes and I'm trying not to buy more right off the bat if I can handle it. That would open the door to many (many, many) more gangs.

New Career Time? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 The Power Cosmic wrote:
True, the assaulty version is interesting, but with (I presume) overwatch and the strength of shooting, I'm inclined to go with the shooty version.

My immediate available models are also a thing, as an assaut-heavy Cult army would require a lot of converting. I only have 1 box of Neophytes and I'm trying not to buy more right off the bat if I can handle it. That would open the door to many (many, many) more gangs.


I feel ya. That's why I bought a box and I'm going to magnetize everything for this game. I'll write up a list here in a minute.
   
Made in us
Privateer





The Land of Big, Stompy Robots

Yeah, I was thinking about getting some of the models from the Deathwatch Overkill game off ebay and using those for the "standard" dudes, then using the box and magnetizing all the bits so I can change the weapons on the specialist models at needed. Lots more work, but it might be worth it.

New Career Time? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So this was what I was thinking or relatively. Not too sure what the rules are for pistols to see if they can shoot before assault.

Neophyte leader w/ web pistol and chainsword- 220

Neophyte Heavy w/ webber- 170

Neophyte Heavy w/ Flamer- 110

Neophyte Initiate w/ shotgun- 70

Neophyte Initiate w/ auto pistol- 65

Neophyte Initiate w/ auto pistol- 65

Neophyte Hybrid w/ chainsword and auto pistol- 100

Neophyte Hybrid w/ chainsword and auto pistol- 100

Neophyte Hybrid w/ close combat blade and blasting charges- 100
   
Made in us
Privateer





The Land of Big, Stompy Robots

That's a pretty good list. The only disadvantage in early games I could see is that all those Initiates won't gain advances for three games, so that might put you down early in a campaign. But only at the beginning.

From what I saw on the quick reference charts, and remember from Necromunda, charging happens during the movement phase, so there's no opportunity to shoot before you're in combat. However, I want to say that wounds you cause in hand-to-hand are caused by each weapon, so you sort of get to shoot in close combat.

But I'm not sure how the web pistol would work in close combat, since it doesn't have a S value.

New Career Time? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 The Power Cosmic wrote:
That's a pretty good list. The only disadvantage in early games I could see is that all those Initiates won't gain advances for three games, so that might put you down early in a campaign. But only at the beginning.

From what I saw on the quick reference charts, and remember from Necromunda, charging happens during the movement phase, so there's no opportunity to shoot before you're in combat. However, I want to say that wounds you cause in hand-to-hand are caused by each weapon, so you sort of get to shoot in close combat.

But I'm not sure how the web pistol would work in close combat, since it doesn't have a S value.


I think how it would work would probably be shooting them first so they lose their bonuses and get basically debuffed for your leader to then swing with chainsword next or have another initiate swoop in next turn


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also with the cult I feel like people come to you. Most of the games aren't turn based so unless it's a hostage rescue you're coming to me either way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 18:20:20


 
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





BomBomHotdog wrote:
Not knowing what the chainsword gives, here's what a power pick gives you:

Strength 4 so in melee starting with S4 you get a -1 armor mod. This stacks with your -4 save mod from the pick, so a -5 armor mod. This means you are going to negate all armor rolls in melee with the exception of Terminator armor. And even that is going to be a challenge for the Termy to save. (+8 on 2d6)

Also Acolytes do get rending claws:
Wargear: An Acolyte Hybrid has a combat blade, rending claw, autopistol, blasting charges and a mining suit

Sadly Acolytes, Metamorphs, and Genestealers are all Special Operatives so you can't start with them


Pretty sure the Str bonus AP doesn't stack with Weapon AP
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




GodDamUser wrote:
BomBomHotdog wrote:
Not knowing what the chainsword gives, here's what a power pick gives you:

Strength 4 so in melee starting with S4 you get a -1 armor mod. This stacks with your -4 save mod from the pick, so a -5 armor mod. This means you are going to negate all armor rolls in melee with the exception of Terminator armor. And even that is going to be a challenge for the Termy to save. (+8 on 2d6)

Also Acolytes do get rending claws:
Wargear: An Acolyte Hybrid has a combat blade, rending claw, autopistol, blasting charges and a mining suit

Sadly Acolytes, Metamorphs, and Genestealers are all Special Operatives so you can't start with them


Pretty sure the Str bonus AP doesn't stack with Weapon AP


That was something I looked up and they do in melee. I was looking at Lychguard for Necron and you can give them a Warsythe which has S+2 (7) and -3 Armor Mod. Str 7 is a natural -4 in melee so your armor mod is -7. Also because your Str is 7 its a high impact attack and can just straight kill a model as opposed to knocking them down
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Southern California

The GSC Leader has no better stats than anyone else on the team, and only has access to the same weapons. None of the Neophytes have advantages in H2h. That's not their thing. I feel like only the Special Operatives are going to be the go-to H2H guys. And, they are going to be very good at it. Honestly, the Leader is really mediocre with no compelling advantages, except a better "Leadership". Not unless he gets advances that make him better at H2H. But, losing a Leader has functional drawbacks. Besides, H2H is very high risk. I think he's gonna hang back and shoot. Like most of the other Neophytes.

Some lessons from Necromunda will not port over to SW:A. A HUGE difference is not having Experience Points (which dedicated advances in stats and skills). In Necro, a H2H Leader could rack up a ton of Experience Points by beating up on Juves in H2H. It made sense to arm him appropriately. BUT, it never made sense to spend a lot arming up a Leader with mediocre stats. This guy is a AM Sgt., equivalent. You wouldn't give a Sgt. expensive weapons and gear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/03 20:55:41


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






BomBomHotdog wrote:
GodDamUser wrote:
BomBomHotdog wrote:
Not knowing what the chainsword gives, here's what a power pick gives you:

Strength 4 so in melee starting with S4 you get a -1 armor mod. This stacks with your -4 save mod from the pick, so a -5 armor mod. This means you are going to negate all armor rolls in melee with the exception of Terminator armor. And even that is going to be a challenge for the Termy to save. (+8 on 2d6)

Also Acolytes do get rending claws:
Wargear: An Acolyte Hybrid has a combat blade, rending claw, autopistol, blasting charges and a mining suit

Sadly Acolytes, Metamorphs, and Genestealers are all Special Operatives so you can't start with them


Pretty sure the Str bonus AP doesn't stack with Weapon AP


That was something I looked up and they do in melee. I was looking at Lychguard for Necron and you can give them a Warsythe which has S+2 (7) and -3 Armor Mod. Str 7 is a natural -4 in melee so your armor mod is -7. Also because your Str is 7 its a high impact attack and can just straight kill a model as opposed to knocking them down


The section on stacking Armour modifiers in close combat seems clear, but the rest of the paragraph talks about CC weapons that modify the users strength.
So is it all CC weapons stack Armour mods or only weapons using the users strength?
Actual wording:
Spoiler:
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





So the question for all y'all is. Will the cult be stronger in hand to hand or more short. Their special ability makes them always have the first turn of shooting or charging when you think about it.
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Uppsala, Sweden

I think GSC will be good at massed amounts of short- to mid-range shooting. Many models means it will be somewhat easier to outflank and find good firing lanes with less cover for the target.

Already hitting causes pinning, that has a good chance of making the target passive for the next turn. And actually wounding and taking someone down makes them an easy target for even half arsed melee fighters the next round.

So I think I'll go for a lot of Neophytes with only autoguns, and a few "double tappers" that focus on kicking people who are down. And I don't think the Leader should seek out melee, because his 12" Ld bubble is too valuable to have him run around in front of the firing lines.

A Neophyte Initiate with boltpistol + chainsword costs exactly 100p, so is easy to replace after a battle. (You are allowed to recruit exactly one model worth up to 100p, free of charge) Decent flexibility and the low Ld is somewhat offset by the Leader.

The shooty equivalent would be something like:
Neophyte Initiate with autogun, reload and photovisor for 95p

So something like this:

Leader: Autopistol, Chainsword (mostly for parry) = 160p

Fireteam 1: = 160p
2 Neophyte Hybrids, Autoguns

Fireteam 2 = 140p
2 Neophytes Initiates, Autoguns

Fireteam 3 = 410p
2 Heavies: Heavy Stubber, photo visor

Double tappers:
2x Neophyte Initiates, autopistol 2x65p = 130p

This is exactly 1000p.

I included 2 heavies with H-stubbers because they are one of the few things that costs 200p to recruit later, and I'd rather not have to spend promethium. Also 2d3 shots at range 40" with photo visors can be a good area denial.

However, those two models could be replaced with 5 regular models, and points to spare for a few chainswords if I wanted to build the list really focused.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/04 10:46:16


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Southern California

Hate me for my Apostasy, but I'm going to change my mind. The Rule of Cool dictates that my GSC Leader have Power pick. Because, (1) I forgot he does have 2 Attacks. (2) I want him to stand out from the crowd so I can find him easily in the heat of battle. And, (3) I might as well have one dude who is better in Melee. (4) He carries a Mining Tool (the very definition of Cool). His BS3 makes it hard to justify anything other than an Autopistol.

Despite my excitement at finally having official GSC gang (er, kill team) rules after waiting literally TWO DECADES, I am not overwhelmed. Basically, we have a Delaque gang, here. That's not bad, Delaques were my favorite gang. But, there really isn't much of that ole Genestealer Cult pizzaz. Except for Special Operatives, which will probably be loathed by other teams. This is all theoryhammer for me, but I still think this team needs boys before toys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/06 05:07:52


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Southern California

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
That's a pretty good list. The only disadvantage in early games I could see is that all those Initiates won't gain advances for three games, so that might put you down early in a campaign. But only at the beginning.

From what I saw on the quick reference charts, and remember from Necromunda, charging happens during the movement phase, so there's no opportunity to shoot before you're in combat. However, I want to say that wounds you cause in hand-to-hand are caused by each weapon, so you sort of get to shoot in close combat.

But I'm not sure how the web pistol would work in close combat, since it doesn't have a S value.


You get to choose one team member for a random advance (stat or skill)? At that slow pace, it wont matter if Initiates wait for a chance to advance.

If you win close combat, you choose which weapons hits first. Then alternate between weapons. A Web Pistol will simply follow its own rules and entangle the victim. Note, close combat with a pistol is like shooting, but is NOT shooting. So, no Ammo Check required.
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





Having a look over all of the other lists.. I am kinda feeling GSC got the short end of the stick..

But will be taking advantage of just hiding constantly..

Tempted to make a put CC list with autopistols, just to gank Harlequins (and everyone else really) with multiple combatants and laugh my way to the bank
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Southern California

GodDamUser wrote:
Having a look over all of the other lists.. I am kinda feeling GSC got the short end of the stick..

But will be taking advantage of just hiding constantly..

Tempted to make a put CC list with autopistols, just to gank Harlequins (and everyone else really) with multiple combatants and laugh my way to the bank


Yeah, GSC is not going to impress early on. I know why they went with just Neophytes, because that's whats in the only box with 10 hybrids (or the GSC Cadian box with hybrid conversions). But, not having Acolytes in the base team is very limiting. The good news is recruits are cheap. You can bring a ton of team members (like Orks). And, the skills you do get are useful for a gang that can kinda of shoot straight. Plus, if you can afford them, Purestrain genestealers are elite. Maybe their few advantages will make them more competitive over the course of a campaign.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/10 18:12:22


 
   
 
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