Switch Theme:

[SWA] Harlequins  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut





Helsinki, Finland

Hey there, I just made a pre-order for shadow war of Armageddon, and I am propably building Harlequins or tau.. reminds me about mordheim where I build 3-man team with chaos..

Troupe master (power sword, fusion pistol) 450
Virtuoso (harlequin's blade, neuro disruptor) 275
Virtuoso (harlequin's blade, neuro disruptor) 275

Total:1000

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/18 22:26:51


Night Goblins, World Eaters, Dark Angels, Imperial Guard, Tyranids 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




That is very interesting. I've been trying to wrap my head around the harlequins in Shadow War. I like your approach of simply accepting our model number limitations and fully kitting out a master and 2 viruosos. I've tried building lists with as many mimes as possible to fill out number, but then I am left with too few weapons. I may try your approach.

:harlequins: 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






i was thinking to my self three eldar.. ye screwed

then i read the quin rules! i'd be tempted to still take more bodies if only for the nature of some of the missions
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I was actually thinking something similar myself, but giving all three the Neuro Disruptor and Nanomolecular Blades instead. IT makes the leader a bit less killy, but makes the other two a little bit more killy.
   
Made in au
Tough Tyrant Guard




basically you will need to hug terrain, with these guys..

Play like I use to paly Esher, move/hide, move/hide

Then when close enough do enough damage in 1 turn to force a bottle, but advoid getting multicharged

Will be hard to paly as only 1 duder down will force you to start bottle checks
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




True, bit between the Harlequin​ special rules and cover, you're looking at a -4 to hit if they run and use cover. So ballistic skill 4 is hitting on a 7+, with a 50/50 chance to ignore any weapon with your invulnerable save. Plus they're fast, speed six with the ability to treat everything as open ground means they're going to go where they want when they want. I see them as a high risk high reward team, which is always fun.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm thinking of trying:

Troupe Master (monomolecular blade, shuriken pistol) 365
Player (monomolecular blade, shuriken pistol) 215
Player (harlequin kiss, shuriken pistol) 210
Player (harlequin kiss, shuriken pistol) 210

1000

I'm going to try this for 2 reasons: 1- those are the models I have painted so far, and 2- getting a fourth harlequin seems like a good idea, since the more figures on the table, the better. Shuriken pistols are fine; they have sustained fire, and add to close combat, which is where I hope to have my harlequins as quickly as possible.

I'll see Saturday, when my group gets together to try out the rules.
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Uppsala, Sweden

I think it could be interesting to plan for the first post game reinforcements. For example accepting being undergeared and that the first game will be pretty tough, so planning on bottling out after the first model down (in that situation it's only a ~8% risk of them being dead or captured) and using the first Promethium Cache to reinforce.

Mechanic: You get 100p to spend on gear OR a new recruit including their gear. You can spend a promethium cache to add 100p to this pool. Unless your Leader dies, you always get at least one Promethium Cache after a scenario. If you win you get D3.

So either reinforce with a single model worth 200p such as:
Player, Shuriken Pistol, Harlequins Blade

Or buy extra gear worth 200p. What could you do without in the first battle? Monomolecular blades maybe? Some pistols?
   
Made in ca
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Vancouver, BC

Can you bank starting points for later? If so, I was thinking something similar to the OP:

Troupe Master: Power Sword, Shuriken Pistol
Virtuoso: Kiss, Neuro Disruptor
Virtuoso: Kiss, Neuro Disruptor

Total: 955

This gives you 45 extra points, meaning if you can bank for later, you can spend a cache for the first couple games and get a player with a kiss and shuriken till you cap out at 6.


 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando




Southern California

I can't remember seeing that banking points or weapons and gear is possible. The theme is a team behind the lines, instead of working from a "base camp." Someone with the rules, set me straight. Also, do team members other than the Leader need another team member within 2" to test for recovery from Pinning? If yes, this makes it better to have two team members working together. Which make 4 Harlies better than three. With a team this small, everybody has to be very good at whatever they do. Like charging and close combat. Or, Hiding and shooting. Not both.
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Uppsala, Sweden

 Gobbla wrote:
I can't remember seeing that banking points or weapons and gear is possible. The theme is a team behind the lines, instead of working from a "base camp." Someone with the rules, set me straight. Also, do team members other than the Leader need another team member within 2" to test for recovery from Pinning? If yes, this makes it better to have two team members working together. Which make 4 Harlies better than three. With a team this small, everybody has to be very good at whatever they do. Like charging and close combat. Or, Hiding and shooting. Not both.


You are perfectly right about no banking of points or gear.

About pinning you are partly right. Whenever a model is hit by shooting it will become pinned (no tests involved). That model automatically recover from pinning at the end of it's next turn. This means the model will miss a full turn. However, if a pinned model has a friendly model within 2" they may make an Initiative test to recover at the beginning of it's turn. That of course makes a huge difference!

Here is a guide to Necromunda for 40k players. Most of it relevant for SWA, although territories and income and trading does not exist at all, recruiting and r3estocking works differently and the gangs are of course teams.
http://arbitorian.tumblr.com/post/105361576170/necromunda-a-guide-for-40k-players
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Mellon wrote:
 Gobbla wrote:
I can't remember seeing that banking points or weapons and gear is possible. The theme is a team behind the lines, instead of working from a "base camp." Someone with the rules, set me straight. Also, do team members other than the Leader need another team member within 2" to test for recovery from Pinning? If yes, this makes it better to have two team members working together. Which make 4 Harlies better than three. With a team this small, everybody has to be very good at whatever they do. Like charging and close combat. Or, Hiding and shooting. Not both.


You are perfectly right about no banking of points or gear.

About pinning you are partly right. Whenever a model is hit by shooting it will become pinned (no tests involved). That model automatically recover from pinning at the end of it's next turn. This means the model will miss a full turn. However, if a pinned model has a friendly model within 2" they may make an Initiative test to recover at the beginning of it's turn. That of course makes a huge difference!

Here is a guide to Necromunda for 40k players. Most of it relevant for SWA, although territories and income and trading does not exist at all, recruiting and r3estocking works differently and the gangs are of course teams.
http://arbitorian.tumblr.com/post/105361576170/necromunda-a-guide-for-40k-players


Important to note for Harlequins, and several of the more elite forces, is that they can't be pinned, except by heavy weapons. So, you don't have to worry as much about keeping them together. In addition, any Harlequin with one of the upgraded ranged weapon is going to me a melee murder machine. Once you figure out how many hits you get, you can use any melee weapons, OR PISTOLS to sort out damage.

That bit is super important because it means even the worst Harlequins are going to be hitting at strength 4 with -1 to armor instead of strength three. But anyone armed with the Neuro-Disruptor is wounding everyone on a 2+ and ignoring armor in melee as well as at range. They seem very much like the elite anti-elite force to me. A small number that kills things dead, regardless of what that thing is, but is far less effective against large numbers.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I played my first game at the local GW store when I picked up my preordered Shadow War box, and this is definitely the game for me. I played my 4 harlequins (kitted out as above) against 6 scout marines, and it was a blast.

Harlequins are amazingly fast, and quite agile. They can spot a model at 12" and can charge around corners, since you don't need to charge in a straight line. This makes them very dangerous.

I lost one model on my way in to bolter fire, but once I charged, it was really impressive to see how dominating harlequins are in close combat.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Guildford

I've just picked up a box of Harlequins having seen a few games played in my local GW. Originally I was going for Grey Knights, but I want something more challenging for painting and have a few alternative schemes in mind already. I don't really know Harlequins too well, so I may give the above four model list a go and see how it plays out.

3,500 (and building) ASM
3,000 Blood Angels
1500 Eldar (abandoned)

AoS - Beastclaw Raiders, Ironjawz, Night Goblins, and Ogors - Destruction remains unvanquished!  
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey

Completely new to warhammer and am joining a shadow war group soon. Have ordered myself some harlequins and just wanted a little help on my kill team. What are people's thoughts on 4 or 3 model kill team? Currently built as:

Troupe master - Harlequins embrace, shruiken pistol
Virtuoso - Neurodisruptor, Momomolecular blade
Mime - Shruiken pistol, harlequin's blade
Mime - Shruiken pistol

=1000 points.

Also, any thoughts on play style for harlequins? My buddy is building a 3 team tyranid team (look scary for close combat!)

And should I invest in any of the special operative models?

Thanks all!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The thing with Harlequins is that they're fast, will win most all but the toughest close combats, but can have trouble wounding. Being strength three isn't great, best case you're wounding on fours, in most cases on fives. Shuriken pistols help with this, giving every other hit in CC strength four instead, but for the cost that's still not hitting super hard. Personally I went with a smaller Kill Team of troupe master and two virtuosos, all with neuro disruptors and monomolecular blades for that reason. Wounding everything on twos and negating armor means that nearly every win in close combat is a dead enemy, regardless of the enemy. It's a little risky only having three members, but when one gets into combat, he's going to win.

With your longest gun being 16" and your most common being 12", you're going to be spending most of the game dangerously close to the enemy fighters, which is both good and bad. You're going to spend every turn you aren't hiding, shooting, or in close combat running for that lovely -2 to hit, but don't be afraid to walk forward and hide instead of running. Not being shot at all is better than even a -4 from running into full cover. Against tyranids you want to separate them if possible and gang up on each individually if you can, the three wounds can be a pain. However I'd bet on a Harlequin winning in CC, but one likely won't kill without a fusion pistol, or winning by a large amount and getting really good rolls.

Do not bunch your guys up, however, keep several inches between each one. You don't need to worry about pinning, so you don't need a friend within two inches, and templates are scary. Because they can negate a lot of the defense you get from being hard to hit.

As far as builds, I think it's a little too early to say this one is better than that one, especially with the progression system and such, but generally the two builds I've seen for Harlequins are to go all in on either quality or quantity. One guy at my shop managed to get six Harlequins in his first 1000, relying entirely on base gear and hoping to win CC with natural ability and spending the next few games gearing up so he wouldn't have to spend promethium caches. I went the opposite, three guys armed to the teeth with the best gear I could afford, then buying additional guys later on. Both seemed to work out pretty well.

As for operatives it really depends on preference. Death Jester and Shadowseer are both really good support units, the Jester giving good range and the Shadowseer making it far harder for your enemy to shoot you on the way in. Solitaire I'm less sold on. He's a murder machine, but being alone means he'll have the whole enemy force focusing him. Also spending a cache to recruit them means that you're making it harder to win, and Harlequins are already spending caches each time they need to replace losses or add new guys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/10 14:23:28


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for the advice, I'll have a play with a 3 man team and see what the difference looks like.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




They're definitely fun to play, and personally of the two ideas I like the decked out three man team best. Treat them like individual assassins and against weaker CC armies such as guard you can really spread them out. That makes it harder for the opponent to try and bottleneck you and take you out with overwatch. Swords are also really important to help protect you against bad rolls in CC, by allowing you to parry. In my experience the three different swords are better than the three unique CC weapons just because of that.

Playing Harlequins is a lot about risk management, since you're going to be outnumbered against all but a few armies, and any losses are very expensive to replace. I went with Guerilla for my first few skill ups for my leader in order to get Survivor and Medic to help with that. Beyond that it seems to be personal preference on what trees you want to go after when advancing. All the ones the troopers and specialists have access have really good and useless skills, so it's always a gamble.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Cool cool. I like their concept a lot. Just gotta get my head round the rules to see when best to use pistols and when best to chop em up! Guess it'll come with play. Have played a lot of other table top games so really excited to get stuck in.
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

I am sorry, I just cannot get past the "Death Jester".
Be very afraid when he shoots you off a walkway.

Being more serious I do like getting a few more bodies in the group so that does look like a good tactic.
There should be no reason for big open spaces in these games.

All the more reason for the SM scouts to hire a Deathwatch marine to come play.

Shadow War is giving every excuse to have a bit of every army out there plus Harlequins are just such a challenge to paint well and do them justice.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte

 
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Guildford

After much deliberation, I took a slightly different route with my Harlequins having seen just how lethal Fusion Pistols can be. The list is as follows:

Troupe Master, Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Caress.
Virtuoso, Monomolecular Blade, Neuro Disruptor.
Virtuoso, Monomolecular Blade, Neuro Disruptor.

1,000pts

3,500 (and building) ASM
3,000 Blood Angels
1500 Eldar (abandoned)

AoS - Beastclaw Raiders, Ironjawz, Night Goblins, and Ogors - Destruction remains unvanquished!  
   
Made in us
Renegade Kan Killin Orks




IMO, having seen and tried Harlequins several times, a multi-man, low value wargear team just does not work.

The 3-man team with 2 virtuosos and master is IMO absolutely the way to go, purely because of just how amazing the special pistols are.

My team right now is

Troupe Master, Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Blade, Photo Visor
Virtuoso, Neuro Disruptor, Harlequin's Blade, Photo Visor
Virtuoso, Neuro Disruptor, Harlequin's Blade, Concealed Blade

I don't bring any fancy melee gear, but those pistols are just. so. good. All you really want out of your melee weapons is the Parry. I would go with a Prism grenade over the photo visors and concealed blade but I only had 35pts - the visors let me be a bit more reliable when I do shoot, the spare knife is just in case my pistol goes out of ammo I want to be sure I still get the bonus attack. Sure, you only get to use the crazypistol on 1/2 of your melee wounds, but you can round up, and let's be honest, 99% of the time you're going to be wounding on a 2+ and killing with no armor save if you get 1 hit.

However, it is very important you minimize your shooting. The pistols are very good at shooting as well as melee, but failed ammo rolls are almost as bad as one of your members dropping dead. Only take shots if you've got a 3+ or better to hit, and if the target is vitally important to kill and impractical to charge. It is sometimes very necessary to take shots, and you shouldn't be trigger shy, but don't bother taking shots at random cultists or units you could safely charge.

As for Harlequin specialists, IMO the Solitaire is fun but worse than a standard Killteam, though he is good for some missions (pull him out in the Captive mission where being down a couple guys would absolutely hamstring your clowns).

The Death Jester and Shadowseer are good vs different types of opponents. Shooting heavy armies, take the Shadowseer, vs melee focused armies (especially hordes) the Death Jester is a godsend. Vs elite melee armies like Nids or GK, you typically have such a massive advantage playing harlequins you shouldn't bother with specialists.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Based on a combination of every ones advice, I'm currently looking at

Troupe Master - Fusion pistol, Embrace
Virtuoso - Neuro Disruptor, Monomolecular blade
Virtuoso - Neuro Disruptor, Monomolecular blade

1000 points

Not sure whether to give a virtuoso the embrace and put the master with a monomolecular blade instead to spread the potential str scores?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The Virtuoso doesn't really need it when they have the Neuro Disruptors. When half your attacks wound on a 2+ and ignore armor, you don't particularly need the other half. Parry is the best thing you can get from the Harlequin melee weapons, to me at least.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Harlequins are joyously bonkers for snatching loot counters. Your kaleidoscopic Juggalelfs can run up, grab loot and skip back to your deployment zone while the other team slowly trudges towards you making angry faces and enjoys the -2 to -4 hit modifier they have to hit you. It's kind of unfair, actually. Maybe the loot counters need to be heavy and slow you down, or make the flip belts stop working if you grab multiples.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 16:44:08


 
   
Made in au
Tough Tyrant Guard




Gene wrote:
Harlequins are joyously bonkers for snatching loot counters. Your kaleidoscopic Juggalelfs can run up, grab loot and skip back to your deployment zone while the other team slowly trudges towards you making angry faces and enjoys the -2 to -4 hit modifier they have to hit you. It's kind of unfair, actually. Maybe the loot counters need to be heavy and slow you down, or make the flip belts stop working if you grab multiples.


Thought there was a 1 per model limit on loot counters?
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut







I was just playing the Scavengers mission against Harlequins and that's basically what he did!

GodDamUser wrote:
Thought there was a 1 per model limit on loot counters?


After reading this, I immediately checked my book and...it turned out there is NO LIMIT on how many loot counters a model can carry. My opponent was playing totally right and, truth be told, I'd have done the same if I were him.

   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey guys,

I've picked up a lot from reading your guys posts.

Previously I ran less well equipped larger Kill Teams of Harlies. Thinking I would upgrade them with caches and having more Harlies protected me from casualties etc.

My main opponent being Tau.
Whilst I understand they are not the strongest army in SWA, his 6 man blob of firewarriors, Assault drone? all stand in a tight circle. Meaning any charges are quickly seen off by their special rule, allowing them ALL to overwatch.

Because I have not run, I am pinned at the start of my charge on a single hit. Also, sustained fire and overwatch with this rule? It hurts

Possibly a misinterpretation of the rules on our part. A smaller kill team, as above would work against most of my opponents, but the Tau are causing problems as a melee army :(

Any tips for a new player ?

Thanks,

Chris


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, Re-my above post.

I just re-read the Harly rules. I cannot be pinned unless S7 or above

Still, any tips on dealing with his Overwatch Ball.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/19 22:28:52


 
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Uppsala, Sweden

mcsheehy wrote:
Hey guys,

I've picked up a lot from reading your guys posts.

Previously I ran less well equipped larger Kill Teams of Harlies. Thinking I would upgrade them with caches and having more Harlies protected me from casualties etc.

My main opponent being Tau.
Whilst I understand they are not the strongest army in SWA, his 6 man blob of firewarriors, Assault drone? all stand in a tight circle. Meaning any charges are quickly seen off by their special rule, allowing them ALL to overwatch.

Because I have not run, I am pinned at the start of my charge on a single hit. Also, sustained fire and overwatch with this rule? It hurts

Possibly a misinterpretation of the rules on our part. A smaller kill team, as above would work against most of my opponents, but the Tau are causing problems as a melee army :(

Any tips for a new player ?

Thanks,

Chris


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, Re-my above post.

I just re-read the Harly rules. I cannot be pinned unless S7 or above

Still, any tips on dealing with his Overwatch Ball.



Hi Chris!

First of all, this is such a thematic scenario. A team of disciplined pathfinders forms a circle, scanning for the blurry hints of harlequins dancing among the ruins :-D

Anyhow, spread out, stay far away, keep in cover and outflank/surround them. No turn limit in this game, so take your time :-) They have initiative 2, so you should be able to get close and stay hidden if you wish to.

I think the thing you missed is that overwatch have a 90 degrees firing arc to the front of the model. So with four models in a circle, they can have one shooter that can fire in each direction. With seven models most of the circle will be covered by two shooters. So there should be plenty of angles where one or two harlequins can charge in and only be shot by one or two taus. The other tau can hang back and join the next turn.

Charging one tau with a pulse carbine is hardly dangerous, it would first need to pass the fear Ld-test ~42% chance, hit you on 6+, wound you on 2+, and 4++ save. So that's ~ 4% chance to do an injury roll.

A tau that does supporting fire with a pulse carbine will hit on 5+, wound on 2+, and 4++ save. So a total of about 14% chance to do cause an injury roll.

Also, charging a single drone with a burst cannon isn't that risky. They must first pass the fear-test ~72% chance. Then shoot an average of 4 shots that hits on 7+ that means ~0,33 hits, ~0,27 wounds, and you will save half of them. So effectively 10% chance for the drone to stop the harlequin :-)

If the tau stands close, try to charge two of them. Both will take fear tests, receive the -1 to hit for being charged, and you are very likely to take them both out and do a follow up move into the next combat.

Bonus trick: You can charge any enemy within charge range that you can see or are aware of. So if they spread out the circle with gaps between them to avoid multiple charges you could be able to charge between them to reach someone on the far side of the circle. Then there might not be even one tau within 3" of the charge target that is looking the right way to shoot at the charger.

Try these out and let me know how it works out for you :-)
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey Mellon,

Thanks for the reply.

It seems a lot of my difficulties were due to a misunderstanding or ignorance in the rules.
I assumed (incorrectly) that we could only not be pinned when running, under the Prismatic Blur special rule. But the wording is clear on a re-read. Makes my life a whole lot easier!

Also the Tau Supporting fire rule, my opponent was using it with a Stealth Suit and his Drone. When, reading the rules myself, it only applies to his warriors. Again, another improvement.

That tip on charging the opposite side of his 'Firing line' (Read square ) could be beneficial. I never considered that and completely forgot charging is not like shooting. Ie, have to charge closest unit.

Also, in the entire game. I do not think we rolled for a single fear check. That is my fault, its my rule.
I'll let you know how our re-match goes tomorrow.

New list -

Troupe Master -
Monomolecular Blade
Fusion Pistol

Virtuoso -
Neuro Disruptor
Embrace

Virtuoso -
Neuro Disruptor
Monomolecular Blade

______________________________________

Embrace on Virtuoso to spread the higher strength attacks.


I was also not aware you used the statline for the pistols in combat!? This makes such a difference! No more S3!

Chris
   
 
Forum Index » Games Workshop Board Games & Specialist/Legacy Games
Go to: