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Lost Patrol, Burning of Prospero, Assassinorum: Execution Force, Deathwatch Overkill, etc etc

Is anyone actually playing these games, and if so, what do you think?

I have to be honest while being out of the hobby for a bit, I am impressed with what GW is attempting to do, and that is to sell games again. I started my gaming days during the golden years, and always looked back at the variety and color from that time period, and wish GW was still doing the same.

The only problem I am seeing is that everything is involving 28mm figures, and in some cases, look like they are either using existing molds, or doing it in a way where the figures are being released for both the game they were designed for, and then separately to be used in normal 40k for example. Which I understand that GW is trying to get as much back from their investment as possible, but I guess I am a little bored just seeing the same figures (or similar figures) across so many games now. I miss seeing different scales, like Epic or Battlefleet Gothic.

So I don't want to sound like i am knocking GW here. I was just wondering how these side games are and how they are being received.

They were fun for a week or so just like any board game save it for a rainy day. Its good to get the family interested in 40k without having 10 books of rules just to play a game. Normally the box is a good deal on the models or they are different posed sculpts which draws the 40k player in. Now if only they would keep the boxes instead of doing limited runs :[

In a word, no.

To elucidate, I, like many others I expect bought Calth and Prospero, but purely for the models.

My wife and I have played Assassinorum: Execution Force numerous times. We really enjoy the mechanics; however, the game is far too easy. In the last game, we replaced half of the cultists with chaos space marines and still beat it like it stole something.

Space Hulk ended up being a good beer and pretzel game for us. Especially for people who were interested in 40k narrative but were overwhelmed by the rules proper.

I also enjoyed Renegade. Shame they discontinued it, it had potential if they could have added other gargantuan creatures and monsters.

 kronk wrote:
My wife and I have played Assassinorum: Execution Force numerous times. We really enjoy the mechanics; however, the game is far too easy. In the last game, we replaced half of the cultists with chaos space marines and still beat it like it stole something.

Have you tried the alternate rules from White-Dwarf? They use different marine rules, daemon princes instead of the lord and shorter limits on objective completion. Also there is a nice white dwarf achievement list that gives you some extra goals to hunt for. We bust it out all the time, I'm thinking of adapting some of the rules for Necrons, the woman loves her some crons.

I have not tried that, yet. I have those rules, though. Maybe it will make the rotation again.

If Execution Force is too easy, you might be playing it wrong! That said, I've played it three times, and won only once so it might just be that I'm unlucky. But the game does come with an achievements list that provides for a certain amount of re-playability.

I've played that and Battle for Calth a few times. I've not bought them, because I'm trying to avoid new miniatures for the time being, but I have certainly enjoyed the games and would play them again with my friends who own them. I particularly enjoyed Silver Tower and, when I buy one of these, that will be first on my list (probably followed by Shadow War).

Execution Force felt a little rushed in terms of design. It works well, but misses out on potential replayability opportunities that could have come from a better-designed board. I feel like it could have be a true competitor with Imperial Assault with a bit more investment from GW but has come out somewhat half-baked (possibly because they were in a rush to get the minis to market). Still, the game is entertaining if a bit limited.

Battle for Calth is a more polished product that I had hoped would attract some expansions, new forces or new missions and it's a little disappointing that GW has basically kicked it out there to sink or swim on its own merits when, again, it only feels like, maybe, three-quarters of a game. However, I've only played the first two missions (several times each), so there's still a lot of game to enjoy and the mechanics are simple and intuitive but legitimately tactical (I know this, because I lose *all* the time, so obviously my opponents are just better than me!).

Silver Tower, on the other hand, feels like a finished product. Whilst it is also ripe for expansions, it doesn't feel like it needs them to be complete. The characters have real interest and the story is surprisingly compelling. It really does feel like it bridges that gap between RPG and boardgame in a similar way to Imperial Assault. I give IA the edge because FFG have embraced the idea of expansions for their game in a BIG way, which I love.

Space Hulk. Still a good game. After a break, refighting the main campaign and enjoying it.

Dreadfleet. Bring it out once a year or so. Quite enjoy it, but forget it's there sometimes. Quite simple mechanics, but fun with a beer.

Assassins. Played it a couple of times. Nothing wrong with it but it never quite "took". Using the figures quite happily in 40K.

Gangs of Comorragh. Played a couple of run throughs solo. Liked it, and started fooling around with some add on options - expanding the scourges role maybe....

Gorechosen. Much more fun than I expected. Played several games, and expect to play it more. Quick to pick up, and straightforward - but tactical too.

Lost Patrol. Tricky. A bit one sided. I like it....

Kill Team. 2nd campaign under way.

Calth/Prospero/Death Masque. Bought for models, but will play the game too.

Oh. Balance. Stormcloud Attack. Excellent buy if you want both flyers. The game, however, is a fetid pile of dingo's kidneys. Stick to the cheaper, original, and better Rock, Paper, Scissors....

Overall, I'm pleased. I run a school wargames club, and throw in Kill Team and 40K in 40 minutes, and the kids have a nice range of short(ish) games to play in a common environment, that is expandable.

And next week Shadow Wars....

KTG17 wrote:
Lost Patrol, Burning of Prospero, Assassinorum: Execution Force, Deathwatch Overkill, etc etc

Is anyone actually playing these games, and if so, what do you think?

I have to be honest while being out of the hobby for a bit, I am impressed with what GW is attempting to do, and that is to sell games again. I started my gaming days during the golden years, and always looked back at the variety and color from that time period, and wish GW was still doing the same.

The only problem I am seeing is that everything is involving 28mm figures, and in some cases, look like they are either using existing molds, or doing it in a way where the figures are being released for both the game they were designed for, and then separately to be used in normal 40k for example. Which I understand that GW is trying to get as much back from their investment as possible, but I guess I am a little bored just seeing the same figures (or similar figures) across so many games now. I miss seeing different scales, like Epic or Battlefleet Gothic.

So I don't want to sound like i am knocking GW here. I was just wondering how these side games are and how they are being received.

Play Lost patrol. Space Hulk. Necromunda, Gorkamorka.and would like a few more, but the price range is out of mine.

GW did a great job for giving you some troops to base a team/ army off of, and a couple of them, give you a base army that you can actually field with a few add ons with no issue.
The gateway drugs are the best. I for one, am impressed that GW have turned the corner and are back to making things relevant, again.

Lost Patrol is a lost cause. It is a Rick-roll, not a boardgame.

Stormcloud attack is a weak knock-off of Wings of Glory/Attack Wing/X-Wing. It feels rushed, incomplete and BADLY unbalanced.

I had a lot of hope for Betrayal at Calth, but it disappointed; it had potential, but just fell a bit short - the command decks, while they add an interesting aspect to the game, make it overly swingy. Without them though, it'd be as boring as all get out.

I've played plenty of Kill team if we're counting that! i have not tried the others.

I've played lots of games of Deathwatch: Overkill, like it a lot

Space Hulk was built as a game first, so I don't think I'd count it alongside GW's more recent takes.

Dreadfleet was a horrible attempt to appeal to a type of nostalgia that those making the game had no understanding of, and also never attempted to research. Pretty models, but that's hardly saying much these days.

The Assassin game was a vehicle to sell the new plastic Assassins. I have no use for them, and the tiles were rubbish (will buy games just for their tiles - I own two sets of FFG's DOOM just 'cause of the tiles).

Gangs of Comorragh. The terrain in that was pathetic. Pass.

Gorechosen does look like fun, but I tend to look beyond the game for its applications. That's not a fair criticism of the game - I don't think Gorechosen is bad because the arena is too small, I just want the arena to be bigger for other things. Plus I own 2 or 3 of the minis in there and I hate owning duplicates of singular minis.

Lost Patrol. No interest. Heard it's impossible for the scouts as well.

Kill Team. Does that really count?

I own the Calth and Prospero miniatures. I hate that the two games don't work with one another. This is one of the biggest problems I have with GW's current side games. They're all one offs and don't work with one another. Having a series of connected HH era games would have been great, but other than aesthetics Calth and Prospero are alien to one another.

Stormcloud Attack/Renegade. An excuse to sell expensive flyer/Knight kits. I got Renegade though, but for the Knights. Don't care about the game.

Death Masque? I don't even remember that having its own rules. I just bought two sets for the miniatures.

Deathwatch Overkill. Bought it for the minis.

The one I have played is Silver Tower. I like that game. I hate how limited and unreplayable that game is. I dislike it's follow-up for not being an expansion but rather being another different game. It's compatible, sure, but it is a different game. It doesn't use the same base mechanic (card-drawn random dungeons), so it might as well be a different game.

So overall this is my problem with GW's recent expansions into board games:

They're all different. There's no continuity of rules or purpose. Calth and Prospero should have shared a ruleset. Hammerhal or whatever it's called and Silver Tower should have shared a ruleset. These games should have built on one another's success.

I do hope that this new AoS hex-based skirmish game is the first in a series, rather than another one-and-done with the next AoS game using a triangle grid or circles or something different and ultimately not compatible with the last one.

I disagree with your premise. I don't think we need GW to be pumping out a new overly-consistent core boardgame type. We've already got Zombicide and it's eleventy-billion expansions. Even Zombicide and BP aren't 100% cross-compatible, though.

Then again, you say that you bought most of them for the minis and/or tiles and that you're not really interested in them as games. I also bought them for the minis, but also for the games as well, since I like having good boardgames - and many of them have gotten quite positive feedback. I mean, your criticism of GoC is that the terrain is pathetic - so there's clearly no interest in the product there as a boardgame. And again, it's gotten decent reports.

I think multiple games with different rulesets are a good thing. Having some compatible with one another is also a good thing, so Hammertime and Silver Tower sharing enough mechanics to be cross-compatible is a good thing. But I'm fine with them both being standalone prodyucts with lots of crossover rather then Hammer being simply a ST expansion pack. Outside of the 40k bubble - and anomalies like Zombicide, there are games that share themes and some mechanics, but Pandemic doesn't need to be the exact same game to Pandemic: Iberia or Pandemic: Cthulhu. Most boardgames put out by any given company these days are unique games, and not designed from the ground up to be cross-compatible. GW is breaking (back) into the boardgame market, because they like money.

I'm fine with Calth and Prospero being unique and separate games because they're not actually 30k or 40k. We already have 30/40k, and hopefully will have a good (or less clusterfeth ed) version of the 40k rules shortly. They're not interested in only setting up model delivery systems or making a new meta-system to go alongside 40k and AoS. As someone who likes having a variety of different things, I'm fine with that. You're mostly interested in them as miniatures and tiles, and that's fine too - and so I guess a lot of these new games just aren't for you.

For me, the biggest issue is getting the damned things assembled and painted.

Oh, and the "game" that Death Masque came with is called Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition. There's a mini-rulebook in it. I assume you've already got a few of those floating around.

 precinctomega wrote:
Silver Tower, on the other hand, feels like a finished product. Whilst it is also ripe for expansions, it doesn't feel like it needs them to be complete. The characters have real interest and the story is surprisingly compelling. It really does feel like it bridges that gap between RPG and boardgame in a similar way to Imperial Assault. I give IA the edge because FFG have embraced the idea of expansions for their game in a BIG way, which I love.

Isn't Imperial Assault Out Of Print now?

 Azazelx wrote:
.

I think multiple games with different rulesets are a good thing. Having some compatible with one another is also a good thing, so Hammertime and Silver Tower lots of cross

If only they would release Hammertime! The prospect of a Parachute pants based boardgame fills me with excitement , especially a GW one, can you imagine the size of them!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 precinctomega wrote:
Silver Tower, on the other hand, feels like a finished product. Whilst it is also ripe for expansions, it doesn't feel like it needs them to be complete. The characters have real interest and the story is surprisingly compelling. It really does feel like it bridges that gap between RPG and boardgame in a similar way to Imperial Assault. I give IA the edge because FFG have embraced the idea of expansions for their game in a BIG way, which I love.

Isn't Imperial Assault Out Of Print now?

FF website is all unavailable , but i see Element games still has pretty much everything in stock (or at least dispatched soon) so maybe its one of those "on the boat" situations? My understanding with FF is that they will literally run out of stock and THEN order production in china , so they can have nothing in for quite a while .... or it could have been discontinued of course :(

Imperial Assault is stil getting expansions so it's not out of print. It's regularly unavailable as it sells out.

Thats a relief. A friend in my Club has the core set, and its on our To-Do list.

 Azazelx wrote:
I disagree with your premise.

Here we go...

 Azazelx wrote:
I don't think we need GW to be pumping out a new overly-consistent core boardgame type.

I didn't say they had to. What I said was:

"They're all different. There's no continuity of rules or purpose."

... and then gave two examples where the rules should have been the same (Calth/Prospero, and the two nuQuest games). I don't think that Renegade should be compatible with Calth which is compatible with Gorechosen and so on and so on, each game using the same core mechanic and then just giving it a fancy "skin", so to speak. I never said that there should be one core boardgame type.

Even if we ignore everything else and just look at nuQuest, why don't these games work with one another? Why does one game have a completely different core mechanic (rando-card dungeons) to the other (GM-based pre-planned adventures). Old Quest had both, as it happens, and you could do either and mix and match. These two games do not, and it hurts both of them. It's worse when they appear to be under the same ruleset, but aren't really.

 Azazelx wrote:
Then again, you say that you bought most of them for the minis and/or tiles and that you're not really interested in them as games. I also bought them for the minis, but also for the games as well, since I like having good boardgames - and many of them have gotten quite positive feedback. I mean, your criticism of GoC is that the terrain is pathetic - so there's clearly no interest in the product there as a boardgame. And again, it's gotten decent reports.

I like having good board games as well. Don't really see why that runs in opposition to my criticisms of their games though. If anything, both the nuQuest boxes would be better if there was some level of continuity beyond AoS's inane page-space devouring 'bespoke' rules.

 Azazelx wrote:
I think multiple games with different rulesets are a good thing. Having some compatible with one another is also a good thing, so Hammertime and Silver Tower sharing enough mechanics to be cross-compatible is a good thing. But I'm fine with them both being standalone prodyucts with lots of crossover rather then Hammer being simply a ST expansion pack. Outside of the 40k bubble - and anomalies like Zombicide, there are games that share themes and some mechanics, but Pandemic doesn't need to be the exact same game to Pandemic: Iberia or Pandemic: Cthulhu. Most boardgames put out by any given company these days are unique games, and not designed from the ground up to be cross-compatible. GW is breaking (back) into the boardgame market, because they like money.

And that's fine. As I said, I don't expect each game to be the same rules with a different skin, but when they're part of the same imprint (Warhammer Quest), I would expect them to work with one another. When such a fundamental aspect of the game (ie. the structure of how the game is played) is different from one to another, then I think that's a problem. That neither are compatible with Gorechosen or Assassination Force isn't the issue.

 Azazelx wrote:
I'm fine with Calth and Prospero being unique and separate games because they're not actually 30k or 40k. We already have 30/40k, and hopefully will have a good (or less clusterfeth ed) version of the 40k rules shortly. They're not interested in only setting up model delivery systems or making a new meta-system to go alongside 40k and AoS. As someone who likes having a variety of different things, I'm fine with that. You're mostly interested in them as miniatures and tiles, and that's fine too - and so I guess a lot of these new games just aren't for you.

I don't want Calth/Prospero to be 30K/40K games, I just wanted them to share a rule set between themselves. Stand alone, but otherwise compatible with one another.

 Azazelx wrote:
Oh, and the "game" that Death Masque came with is called Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition. There's a mini-rulebook in it. I assume you've already got a few of those floating around.

Guess that explains why I didn't remember it coming with board game rules. It wasn't one!

I enjoyed Lost Patrol. It appealed to the side of me that lets me play Dwarf Fortress and I Wanna Be The Guy, and enjoy it.

Silver Tower is very good.

I played Space Hulk once, not particularly memorable but not bad either.

Silver Tower and Shadows of Harrenhal do "work together"; all the heroes from one work in the other, and my understanding is that the villains from ST work in SoH. the questing element is different because the theme of the quest is different. The base mechanics are the same, aren't they? (action dice, roll to hit/save, that sort of thing).

In a similar way, I can see why Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero are different games; they're portraying different theatres of battle and a different kind of conflict, so the rules should be different.

Also, I think part of the reason for these games is experimenting with game design. I'm sure they're aware that most people buy the Horus Heresy games for the minis not the rules, so they used them as an opportunity to try something new.

Personally I liked Silver Tower and Execution Force. I've bought both Heresy games but not played them, and I'm looking forward to getting Shadows of Harrenhal, Gangs of Commoragh and Shadow Force: Armageddon.

Space Hulk is really in a league of its own. As far as sci-fi dungeonbash games go, it's got a much tighter focus than, say, Imperial Assault, but within that focus, I think it's a much better game. The older material is compatible, and easily available if you've completed the fourteen missions in the latest edition.

Lost Patrol looks difficult as ... heck, but in the same way Doom and Descent 1st edition were; it makes you want to come back and try again. Plus it's quick enough to let you get a couple of games in in a session.

Gorechosen is broken out nearly every week now. It's super fast and super fun. Everyone has a great time when they play it and there's always something ridiculous that happens. I have bought the other 4 champions, and plan on getting Valkia and Skarr to play the 3-on-1 scenarios from White Dwarf. This is easily the best arena combat game and definitely in the top tier games of GW's entire history.

Warhammer Quest Shadows Over Hammerhal is the best dungeon crawler I've played in years and years and years and years. Being able to mix in all the heroes and enemies from Silver Tower is a nice bonus. My group is about halfway through Hammerhal right now and I'm already thinking about designing a new adventure for them.

I also got Deathwatch Overkill but have not played it yet. The rules look great.

And of course, Space Hulk has always been and will always be one of the best games GW has ever made.

I picked up Silver Tower, Calth, Prospero, Blood Bowl, Execution Force and Deathwatch Overkill.

We played through DWOK and Calth's campaigns at least once and one-off missions on top of that. Calth has my vote for a series of self-contained rules that could sell 40k sets to people like me who dislike rules and/or size of games in current 40k.

Execution Force I've only played solo and had fun. It can actually be fairly difficult depending on how you play it. It even has challenges listed in the back of the book in case you're thinking you've completely beaten the base game. It does only have one scenario so every time you pull it out, you know where it's going.

Blood Bowl (don't know if you're counting it as core) is kind of clunky IMO. Moving up to 11 guys per turn, spinning the models to face the other way only to turn them around later was not my cuppa. I played it once with a localish enthusiast and no league ever formed since it wasn't 40k.

Silver Tower was okay but we've only played a few scenarios. It seemed very dependent on having a game group who were set on an RPG lite experience and who could overlook some quirkiness in rules. They FAQed most items but the game just didn't grab me.

Prospero is the only one of those I've bought but haven't played---and I buy them for the game not the models. The more vids I've watched and read throughs I've done of the rules, the less impressed I am with it. I think Calth spoiled me for a solid 40k mini-game and Prospero doing it differently (not badly but different) has impacted our motivation to play.

 privateer4hire wrote:


We played through DWOK and Calth's campaigns at least once and one-off missions on top of that. Calth has my vote for a series of self-contained rules that could sell 40k sets to people like me who dislike rules and/or size of games in current 40k.
...
Prospero is the only one of those I've bought but haven't played---and I buy them for the game not the models. The more vids I've watched and read throughs I've done of the rules, the less impressed I am with it. I think Calth spoiled me for a solid 40k mini-game and Prospero doing it differently (not badly but different) has impacted our motivation to play.

My feelings go along the same lines. I game regularly with hardcore eurogame-circles (strategic board games of usually next to zero luck factor) and spend quite a bit of time with game designing folks, which leads me to first and foremost think about the games before the models. Though these GW games are a fresh step away every now and again with their horrendously ameritrashy dice mechanics

Space Hulk and Blood Bowl are absolute classics in their genres that I love and actively demo every now and then, but some of these recent ones have also caught my eye. I will not buy a boxed set if the game component isn't somehow interesting.

Calth was the first of these for me. I like the Heresy setting and it was cool to see plastic marines, but even more I liked what I saw in the game previews: alternating actions, actual tactical choices, hex board... Now, two boxes and perhaps 40 games later, I regret nothing. Calth, as a rule set, was just brilliant for the tense small scale game it set out to be, as it is very tight (clear objectives, unobfuscated odds to be calculated...) and unlike many games gives actual weight to every decision you make, in a very rapid manner. If you did well, you have gained something. If you goofed up, your guys are most likely going to feel it as they very quickly evaporate in fire under your opponents manouvering. It is almost like they took the decision making parts of Hulk and Bowl and put them in a new game that constantly keeps both players actively in the loop. And to top it off, in a very easily expandable way! It would be so easy to put new units, new cards and scenarios out because the core system was so solid. Sadly, this hasn't thus far really happened. Yes, there were the WD scenarios and stuff, but those aren't too much to write home about (tested those too). I guess I will just dig out my plans for the random scenario generator and keep on expanding the game myself...

And then there was Prospero. Initially, dang did it look promising with it's mark III armours and psychic cards, but dang did it also disappoint after Calth when I actually got to try it. I felt it was clunky and way too handwavy: the movement system felt off, the terrain hardly mattered in any mission as LOS was all over the place, different dice types were utilized in a very boring fashion and scenarios were pretty much one-sided affairs. I get that they were going for different end goals than with Calth, what with the battles taking place in large open spaces and situations more decidedly narrativistic, but the problem there is still the same: you must have a good game first and foremost. If there isn't much more to the tactics of it than hoping you draw right power cards and roll well, then bleh, I'm out. It is sad to see a system sit on my shelf with no real hope of getting played, but perhaps I'll find a way to at least use it's psychics in Calth...

Funny thing is, both systems were written by the same guy, James Hewitt, who is now working on the upcoming Adeptus Titanicus rules. I think he is doing this partly as a game design exercise, to find that sweet spot for smaller 40k games. I just wish he could have a chance (or be bothered) to delve a bit deeper into Calth's system (not necessarily the setting).

I bought Overkill for the genestealers but the game is great fun as well,

and I've enjoyed playing silver tower whenever I've had a chance although I haven't had enough plays to decide if it's got real staying power (hope to get a game of hammerhall soon)

 Verviedi wrote:
I enjoyed Lost Patrol. It appealed to the side of me that lets me play Dwarf Fortress and I Wanna Be The Guy, and enjoy it.

If anyone ever claimed that they won that game as the scouts, I'd call them a bloody liar or a cheat. The only fun in that game is in being the genestealers, and finding new ways to evicerate the scouts. And that only is fun for so long.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Silver Tower and Shadows of Harrenhal do "work together"; all the heroes from one work in the other, and my understanding is that the villains from ST work in SoH. the questing element is different because the theme of the quest is different. The base mechanics are the same, aren't they? (action dice, roll to hit/save, that sort of thing).

Go back and re-read my post. I explained the differences in very clear terms.

Blood bowl is a great game..... that's about all
Space hulk was good
High hopes for shadow war
Looking for a good remake of battlefield gothic
Or hero quest
Or mordheim

I've purchased a few of the games, mainly if it was a deal for the models.

Space Hulk- fun game. The models that come with the new edition are amazing (even for single pose).

Betrayal at Calth- This is becoming a favorite around here. When you don't have time, space, or feel lazy, this game gets you into 40k mode. It's a fun system involving dice and command cards. The lack of point cost for special and heavy weapons can be problematic when your instructions for a mission are bring "one veteran tactical squad". All in all fun game. I wish I could find some expansion scenarios for it.

Several of the others mentioned by op I've purchased for models but do look forward to trying out.