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Just curious, but do these items actually sell? When I see a model listed at that kind if price my reaction is always "hellll noo" as I skip over it.

I understand that people will happily pay for well painted models - more power to you if that includes you - 5x the original product (which is often already overpriced as hell) seems a bit much.

yeah and 99% of the time its recasts out of china or Russia.

Well someone may buy it so can be worth a try

If it's persisting, from the same people in many cases none-the-less, it's probably working for some groups. Go look at commission prices in general, they're not cheap unless you're getting either exceedingly simplistic or someone still building their portfolio.

It depends on what it is, something rare or unavailable may well be worth 500% of the original retail price (or even a lot more) as there's little or no chance of picking it up otherwise

another possibility is that a number of professional sellers don't like to cancel listings when the run out of stock as they will loose their position in the list ebay uses to show best match so instead they ramp their prices up, it maintains their list position and if they do get a buyer they can afford to quickly buy retail price stock from somewhere like Amazon (or an ebay competitor) and send it off and still make a profit

but a fair number are people just giving it a whirl and seeing if anybody bites

 hippyjr wrote:
Just curious, but do these items actually sell?

Taking a look at the completed auctions would answer your question pretty succinctly.

I honestly thought it was just hopes for people making a mistake on clicking it Honestly

 hippyjr wrote:
Just curious, but do these items actually sell? When I see a model listed at that kind if price my reaction is always "hellll noo" as I skip over it.

I understand that people will happily pay for well painted models - more power to you if that includes you - 5x the original product (which is often already overpriced as hell) seems a bit much.

The Answer to the question is- It's Feebay. That's all you need to see, to know that there are still assclowns in the world who are soulless money grubbing mutts.

I'm curious as to what sort of listings you're actually asking about, because there are a few different types that would seem to be relevant...

There's the limited edition models, that sometimes sell for silly money because of their scarcity.

There's the stuff that's not so limited, but that either the seller hopes potential buyers will think it's limited, or that people (sellers and buyers both) don't realise isn't actually that uncommon (Black Templars Marshall, I'm looking at you!)

There's a stuff that is normal, run of the mill stuff that for some reason the seller expects to sell for far more than it is actually worth.

And there's the stuff made by by accomplished painters or modelers, that sells for big money because it's really good, and/or because people will pay to own a piece that was made by someone with street cred in the industry.


For any of those categories, whether or not the asking price is reasonable comes down entirely to personal opinion.

Scalpers are the problem....

Warhammer, 40k and general Wargames Trip Loot Sharing are the answer.

See my sig, sign up and see if you can't make a Scalper cry into their Cheetos

I'm surprised that looking through e-bay that the 1st edition Necron warriors (or "chaos cyborgs" for lulz!) And the 3rd edition Necron warriors, Immortals and Destroyers are, for the most part, SENSIBLE money, while the most of the OOP metal 5th edition stuff (like wraiths and Pariahs) go for STUPID money! :O

The only way I can explain it, is because the Warrior and Immortal metal minis are Official models that DO NOT cost as a proxy, and can be used as is. Several people I know use the 3rd edition destroyers as proxies for tomb blades which in all honesty looks pretty cool and isn't confusing, giving them more general use rather than "collectors item".

Literally, you can puck up a full 5 model immortal squad for £20, which is a bargain! Warriors are around the same while destroyers are hit and miss.

its just like sellers who list an item as rare or OOP when you can still buy them from GW or wherever, its just a marketing gimmick where they hope some sucker who has no clue bites and buys them.

As someone who's been using ebay for years and who's hobby/work has become buying and painting models (I love painting but rarely game these days and see little point in having a cabinet full of painted models which get no physical use) I can add my perspective. All the following numbers are in GBP (my pound key doesn't work so I'm using the dollar sign )

I run a basic store on ebay, which costs me $20 a month (free listings, less fees). A typical single 28-32mm character model I'll put up for sale anywhere between 35-65 BIN with free postage (so between 3-6 times the cost on average). Let's use $55 as an example. Between ebay and paypal the fees are 13% of the total (7), then there's the 'free' P&P - usually about $5 if I'm sending in the UK, then there's the cost of the actual model (say $10-15 on average for a character). That's deductions of around $24+, so I'm looking at about $30 profit.

To paint any given model well (what I'd regard as well), considering the amounts of detail on most models these days, takes between 3-8 hours work, including cleaning and building. The minimum wage is $7.20 an hour and the living wage is $8.25 - so in order to make that model be financially worthwhile I'd have to paint it from start to finish in 3-4 hours, which is near impossible if the model has tonnes of detail or a complex colour scheme (5-8hrs is more typical for me). Average troop models I'll look to spend 30min-2hrs max.

I try and keep all my prices as sane as possible but if I were to take the absolute stance of a living wage on to my hourly work then single character models, at any rate, could easily spiral beyond 500-600% their RRP cost if I wasn't careful. If I were to simply basecoat/agrax earthshade a standard trooper, I'd still look for $3-8 each.

As you can see, the law of diminishing returns applies for non-commission work, especially, as I have to front the cost of the models and the fees. As a result I tend to steer clear of painting whole armies and prefer selling characters, blood bowl teams, the occasional unit etc. The more hours I spend on models to make them really nice, the less $ I get in return as they can easily go beyond what the vast majority can afford or will think of as 'reasonable value'. To put it simply putting models together well and painting them to a good-high standard takes time, a lot of it, and time is, as they say, money. We all have a finite amount of it on earth and I'm loathed to think my time, just because I paint nice toy soldiers well, is worth less than the average hourly wage at McDonald's.

What I don't understand are the listings I come across which are basic kits for 500-600% the cost - I assume/hope they're place holders.

I hate scalpers of all kinds and do roll my eyes at some of the 'RARE OOP' nonsense that gets thrown about in order to prey upon the enthusiastic/ignorant/nostalgic.

I hope this brings some financial insight into the cost of painted models on ebay, even though most are not as nice as mine

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
I'm surprised that looking through e-bay that the 1st edition Necron warriors (or "chaos cyborgs" for lulz!) And the 3rd edition Necron warriors, Immortals and Destroyers are, for the most part, SENSIBLE money, while the most of the OOP metal 5th edition stuff (like wraiths and Pariahs) go for STUPID money! :O
.

That's not really surprising, given how ugly the original Necron models are.

I mean, I have a bunch of them and I love them to bits, but damn they ugly.

Also, some of the outrageous pricing comes from automatic software programs which price stuff autonomously for large shops/people who don't care.

Do well painted models sell at 500% retail, yes. If you think there's a problem with that, then by all means learn to paint well, spend all your time doing it and price it for what you think is reasonable, and enjoy the ebay fees and tedious model prep work while you're at it. Good luck!

Scalping/pirating is a different issue, I don't really care too much about it. I also occasionally enjoy the fruits of a glut of a certain product on the market, so who am i to complain? I think rules such as 'limit 1 per customer' are reasonable but it really comes down to the best interests of the producer... it may be in their interest to create artificial demand but most of the time that is backfiring when their actual customers are not the ones buying the product (instead scalpers) and the scalpers are just cutting into their profit. But yes it might be in their interest to create a market where buyers know their product will go up in value. We all have a little of that in us... sure there are plenty here who have told themselves when getting into a kickstarter, 'wow these exclusives sell a lot on ebay afterwards i can recoup the price of this kickstarter'.

 warspawned wrote:
As someone who's been using ebay for years and who's hobby/work has become buying and painting models (I love painting but rarely game these days and see little point in having a cabinet full of painted models which get no physical use) I can add my perspective. All the following numbers are in GBP (my pound key doesn't work so I'm using the dollar sign )

I run a basic store on ebay, which costs me $20 a month (free listings, less fees). A typical single 28-32mm character model I'll put up for sale anywhere between 35-65 BIN with free postage (so between 3-6 times the cost on average). Let's use $55 as an example. Between ebay and paypal the fees are 13% of the total (7), then there's the 'free' P&P - usually about $5 if I'm sending in the UK, then there's the cost of the actual model (say $10-15 on average for a character). That's deductions of around $24+, so I'm looking at about $30 profit.

ok let me comment on this part here: if you are running a basic store, then your eBay fees are much less then 10% and PP fees are like 3-3.5%, unless you have a very lousy sales record with many complaints and such, cause right now I get all of what you get and I don't pay $20 a month.

now to do painted models cost like 500-600% of the models price, no, you can get great professional paint jobs done for much less, now what I find funny is those who charge 500-600% of a models value for a crappy painted model that a 1 year old could have done, when I sold some of my painted RRT minis they sold for about double their value, paint job was ok table top quality, but I think the real reason they sold was because they were assembled.

Another reason for 500x retail price is that the post is simply a place holder for the "big time" ebay sellers that sell 100x of an item per month and they are in between shipments. They get the new shipment in, drop the price back to normal, and carry on, rather than taking down the listing and then relisting. It saves them, like, 30 seconds of hunting for the verbage and pictures per item for their 2500 items being sold at any given time.

 kronk wrote:
Another reason for 500x retail price is that the post is simply a place holder for the "big time" ebay sellers that sell 100x of an item per month and they are in between shipments. They get the new shipment in, drop the price back to normal, and carry on, rather than taking down the listing and then relisting. It saves them, like, 30 seconds of hunting for the verbage and pictures per item for their 2500 items being sold at any given time.

yeah except that does not apply to unique painted models.

Asterios wrote:

 kronk wrote:
Another reason for 500x retail price is that the post is simply a place holder for the "big time" ebay sellers that sell 100x of an item per month and they are in between shipments. They get the new shipment in, drop the price back to normal, and carry on, rather than taking down the listing and then relisting. It saves them, like, 30 seconds of hunting for the verbage and pictures per item for their 2500 items being sold at any given time.

yeah except that does not apply to unique painted models.

Yeah, except that obviously wasn't the question I was answering. If it was just "painted for 500x, for reals!", then the OP should have been more clear.

Rock on, though.

 insaniak wrote:

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
I'm surprised that looking through e-bay that the 1st edition Necron warriors (or "chaos cyborgs" for lulz!) And the 3rd edition Necron warriors, Immortals and Destroyers are, for the most part, SENSIBLE money, while the most of the OOP metal 5th edition stuff (like wraiths and Pariahs) go for STUPID money! :O
.

That's not really surprising, given how ugly the original Necron models are.

I mean, I have a bunch of them and I love them to bits, but damn they ugly.

Well, I find them charmingly rustic...

And also it will help get me all nostalgic about Necromunda when I'll use them as my SW:A Necron Strike Team!

Asterios wrote:

 warspawned wrote:
As someone who's been using ebay for years and who's hobby/work has become buying and painting models (I love painting but rarely game these days and see little point in having a cabinet full of painted models which get no physical use) I can add my perspective. All the following numbers are in GBP (my pound key doesn't work so I'm using the dollar sign )

I run a basic store on ebay, which costs me $20 a month (free listings, less fees). A typical single 28-32mm character model I'll put up for sale anywhere between 35-65 BIN with free postage (so between 3-6 times the cost on average). Let's use $55 as an example. Between ebay and paypal the fees are 13% of the total (7), then there's the 'free' P&P - usually about $5 if I'm sending in the UK, then there's the cost of the actual model (say $10-15 on average for a character). That's deductions of around $24+, so I'm looking at about $30 profit.

ok let me comment on this part here: if you are running a basic store, then your eBay fees are much less then 10% and PP fees are like 3-3.5%, unless you have a very lousy sales record with many complaints and such, cause right now I get all of what you get and I don't pay $20 a month

You presume too much my friend! My bad - after double checking it's actually 9% ebay fees and 3% paypal I pay for the basic store for the seller tools/additional protection etc and don't get much of a discount on fees, perhaps I'm wasting money doing so Seriously it's worth looking into. My record is solid @ 100% so far (hopefully it'll continue).

Anywho, my main point was simply that selling on ebay inflates the cost vs. commissions due to the model cost and the fees. I think $30 for a well painted single character model is a fair enough price and is in line with most commission painters I've seen online.

I agree I don't understand why objectively poor to average paint jobs sell for similar, if not greater, prices, but they do all the time. I personally try and offer models I'm happy with that I think the majority of hobbyists would be happy with, at costs which I think are reasonable for the time/work I put into them. Other sellers aren't so discerning sadly.

 warspawned wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 warspawned wrote:
As someone who's been using ebay for years and who's hobby/work has become buying and painting models (I love painting but rarely game these days and see little point in having a cabinet full of painted models which get no physical use) I can add my perspective. All the following numbers are in GBP (my pound key doesn't work so I'm using the dollar sign )

I run a basic store on ebay, which costs me $20 a month (free listings, less fees). A typical single 28-32mm character model I'll put up for sale anywhere between 35-65 BIN with free postage (so between 3-6 times the cost on average). Let's use $55 as an example. Between ebay and paypal the fees are 13% of the total (7), then there's the 'free' P&P - usually about $5 if I'm sending in the UK, then there's the cost of the actual model (say $10-15 on average for a character). That's deductions of around $24+, so I'm looking at about $30 profit.

ok let me comment on this part here: if you are running a basic store, then your eBay fees are much less then 10% and PP fees are like 3-3.5%, unless you have a very lousy sales record with many complaints and such, cause right now I get all of what you get and I don't pay $20 a month

You presume too much my friend! My bad - after double checking it's actually 9% ebay fees and 3% paypal I pay for the basic store for the seller tools/additional protection etc and don't get much of a discount on fees, perhaps I'm wasting money doing so Seriously it's worth looking into. My record is solid @ 100% so far (hopefully it'll continue).

Anywho, my main point was simply that selling on ebay inflates the cost vs. commissions due to the model cost and the fees. I think $30 for a well painted single character model is a fair enough price and is in line with most commission painters I've seen online.

I agree I don't understand why objectively poor to average paint jobs sell for similar, if not greater, prices, but they do all the time. I personally try and offer models I'm happy with that I think the majority of hobbyists would be happy with, at costs which I think are reasonable for the time/work I put into them. Other sellers aren't so discerning sadly.

if thats all you are getting for $20 a month you are being ripped off.

If its commission work, that's totally within reason due to skill, time and fees involved, I run a small business making props and those run in the hundreds even though I use like 20$ in materials only have to deal with paypal fees. Us artists gotta eat (and feed our plastic crack addiction) too and you never know when the next job will come down the chute!

Did anyone else read OP's title in Jerry Seinfeld's voice?

 Ir0njack wrote:
If its commission work, that's totally within reason due to skill, time and fees involved, I run a small business making props and those run in the hundreds even though I use like 20$ in materials only have to deal with paypal fees. Us artists gotta eat (and feed our plastic crack addiction) too and you never know when the next job will come down the chute!

what never heard of starving artists?

Each to his own, not everyone can paint and some people have a lot of money to burn.

 warspawned wrote:
As you can see, the law of diminishing returns applies for non-commission work, especially, as I have to front the cost of the models and the fees. As a result I tend to steer clear of painting whole armies and prefer selling characters, blood bowl teams, the occasional unit etc. The more hours I spend on models to make them really nice, the less $ I get in return as they can easily go beyond what the vast majority can afford or will think of as 'reasonable value'. To put it simply putting models together well and painting them to a good-high standard takes time, a lot of it, and time is, as they say, money. We all have a finite amount of it on earth and I'm loathed to think my time, just because I paint nice toy soldiers well, is worth less than the average hourly wage at McDonald's.

Just a little OT advice, but look into painting boardgame models. Boardgamers aren't into customized units, nor are interested in Dakka quality paintjobs, so you can paint up a non-commissioned set, and either sell or trade the entire game, or just have the client send you their unpainted miniatures from the game, and you send them the painted ones. Gloomhaven might be a good boardgame, since you can buy just the unpainted miniatures in the present KS, assembly-line paint them, then put them back into their *spoiler* boxes. You can then post your unspoiled paintjobs on BGG, and auction, trade, or otherwise sell the miniatures. The client has the added benefit that you put them back into their "don't open until told" boxes, so they don't see the miniature until it comes into play, yet it will be painted for them. I think someone on Cthulhu Wars is painting this way, and he's working on three sets at once.

some people make a living from painting miniatures, look at it this way lets say you were painting for minimum wage, 8.00 p/h
to paint 5 tactical space marines it takes about 12 hours, that's $90 without the cost of the squad its self.

95% of people collecting Warhammer wont pay for the models to be painted but for those who do there a plenty of commission painters out there willing to do it.

People on e-bay ask whatever the hell they like.

Girlfriend tells you to sell your stuff but you don't want to. To her it's crap, to you it's hours of effort - $500 for a $50 model. If it sells you win, if it doesn't sell you tell her it didn't sell and you win.

You've got no real use for a rare model but you aren't in any real hurry to get money - e-bay for a 500% mark up, some sucker buys it, you win, nobody buys it, just hang onto it.

Then there's the delusional who think they're professional painters.

The con-artists who claim to be 'Gold Daemon winners'.

Actual Gold Daemon winners.

The list goes on.